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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:48 PM   #101
BC2009
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All I have to say is "estimated". Just imagine if Apple stopped reporting iPhone units sold and let the technology world rely on estimates. These analysts literally look at the iPhone sales, try to figure out how to tell an interesting story of "somebody out-sells iPhone" or "somebody outsells iPad" and then they crunch numbers until they can make a semi-believable argument.

Apple is the only vendor reporting units shipped. Until their competitors report units shipped then all these estimates are moot. Apple analysts have been off on iPhone sales by as much as 30% in the past. And those analysts have actual history quarterly numbers to base things on. These analysts reporting on Samsung are pulling numbers out of their butts.

The only thing we know for sure about GS3 is that they sold 30M units in 5 months (or 6M units per month). Anybody check the fact that Apple sold 28M iPhone units in calendar Q3 and that probably 20M of those were iPhones, and of those probably 19M were iPhone 4S? At a rate of 6M units per months that would still put Samsung's flagship phone in the early part of its lifecycle behind the iPhone 4S which was trying to compete with the pre-natal iPhone 5.

Hey look, I just pulled numbers out of my butt too!!!!! Amazing how that works!

All I can say to Samsung, is post some numbers or these analysts should shut up.

Aside: Amazon also sold 3 x as many Kindle Fire HD's after their customers who were waiting on the edge of their seats to see if Apple would produce an iPad for the same price found out it was $80 more. That means Amazon's product was not good enough to convince customers to buy it outright and that Apple's price was not low enough to attract everybody -- but everybody was waiting too see what Apple would announce first. So for all we know they sold 300 units on the iPad mini announcement day and the week before that they sold 100 units.

Also, iPad sold 3M units in its opening weekend while Nexus 7 has not sold 3M units in three months according to Asus -- but at least Asus gives ballpark numbers of "we are almost selling 1M units per month".
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:50 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
Do you have better estimates? Anybody else does? Are you trying to say that there is a conspiracy? Why do you think AAPL stock is falling like a rock?
he stated before they are throwing those phones out that aren't selling and ordering new ones

you know, because that makes lots of sense
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:52 PM   #103
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Honestly - Apple needs to make a 4.5"-4.8" iPhone.
Whatever size keeps a true 16:9 ratio.

I finally played with an S3 yesterday.......I loved the screen size.
Ill never buy it, as I hate the Android ecosystem, but the phone itself was sweet!
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:53 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
All I have to say is "estimated". Just imagine if Apple stopped reporting iPhone units sold and let the technology world rely on estimates. These analysts literally look at the iPhone sales, try to figure out how to tell an interesting story of "somebody out-sells iPhone" or "somebody outsells iPad" and then they crunch numbers until they can make a semi-believable argument.

Apple is the only vendor reporting units shipped. Until their competitors report units shipped then all these estimates are moot. Apple analysts have been off on iPhone sales by as much as 30% in the past. And those analysts have actual history quarterly numbers to base things on. These analysts reporting on Samsung are pulling numbers out of their butts.

The only thing we know for sure about GS3 is that they sold 30M units in 5 months (or 6M units per month). Anybody check the fact that Apple sold 28M iPhone units in calendar Q3 and that probably 20M of those were iPhones, and of those probably 19M were iPhone 4S? At a rate of 6M units per months that would still put Samsung's flagship phone in the early part of its lifecycle behind the iPhone 4S which was trying to compete with the pre-natal iPhone 5.

Hey look, I just pulled numbers out of my butt too!!!!! Amazing how that works!

All I can say to Samsung, is post some numbers or these analysts should shut up.

Aside: Amazon also sold 3 x as many Kindle Fire HD's after their customers who were waiting on the edge of their seats to see if Apple would produce an iPad for the same price found out it was $80 more. That means Amazon's product was not good enough to convince customers to buy it outright and that Apple's price was not low enough to attract everybody -- but everybody was waiting too see what Apple would announce first. So for all we know they sold 300 units on the iPad mini announcement day and the week before that they sold 100 units.

Also, iPad sold 3M units in its opening weekend while Nexus 7 has not sold 3M units in three months according to Asus -- but at least Asus gives ballpark numbers of "we are almost selling 1M units per month".
It's really simple, Apple is a public company and a retail seller. As such it is obliged to report sales. Samsung is not a retail seller, they do not have to report "sales" and they do not have any sales per se. All they do they ship their products to retailers. And they do report shipments (like 30 milllion shipped SGSIII that they reported a few day ago).
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:54 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by uknowimright View Post
he stated before they are throwing those phones out that aren't selling and ordering new ones

you know, because that makes lots of sense
Please stop with the out of context BS. I simply said that Android shipments overall were inflated by unsold units in reply to a specific question. I never implied that they threw out a product and ordered more of the same thing.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:54 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
It's really simple, Apple is a public company and a retail seller. As such it is obliged to report sales. Samsung is not a retail seller, they do not have to report "sales" and they do not have any sales per se. All they do they ship their products to retailers. And they do report shipments (like 30 milllion shipped SGSIII that they reported a few day ago).
Good point
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:57 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by uknowimright View Post
he stated before they are throwing those phones out that aren't selling and ordering new ones

you know, because that makes lots of sense
You really don't get how retail works do you.

Retailers order stock. They can return that stock if it doesn't sell to the naufacturer.

Then they order new stock of the newest device.

Cycle repeats.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:57 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
It's really simple, Apple is a public company and a retail seller. As such it is obliged to report sales. Samsung is not a retail seller, they do not have to report "sales" and they do not have any sales per se. All they do they ship their products to retailers. And they do report shipments (like 30 milllion shipped SGSIII that they reported a few day ago).
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Originally Posted by frayne182 View Post
Good point
That's all BS. Reporting sales and shipments is simply a choice. Samsung did it until a couple years ago.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:59 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
It's really simple, Apple is a public company and a retail seller. As such it is obliged to report sales. Samsung is not a retail seller, they do not have to report "sales" and they do not have any sales per se. All they do they ship their products to retailers. And they do report shipments (like 30 milllion shipped SGSIII that they reported a few day ago).
Common sense is not allowed on these boards!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
That's all BS. Reporting sales and shipments is simply a choice. Samsung did it until a couple years ago.
That's what he's saying...they can choose not to

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
You really don't get how retail works do you.

Retailers order stock. They can return that stock if it doesn't sell to the manufacturer.

Then they order new stock of the newest device.

Cycle repeats.
you like that line don't you?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:59 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
That's all BS. Reporting sales and shipments is simply a choice. Samsung did it until a couple years ago.
lol yeah he said that.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:01 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Please stop with the out of context BS. I simply said that Android shipments overall were inflated by unsold units in reply to a specific question. I never implied that they threw out a product and ordered more of the same thing.
i believe I'm at a point where I believe no matter what's said, if it's pro-android you'll refute it and if it's pro-apple you'll accept it. is this close?

Why can't they both be good? I sure do love both...i can't be the only one
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:02 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by donrsd View Post
Honestly - Apple needs to make a 4.5"-4.8" iPhone.
Whatever size keeps a true 16:9 ratio.

I finally played with an S3 yesterday.......I loved the screen size.
Ill never buy it, as I hate the Android ecosystem, but the phone itself was sweet!
I reeeeally wish Apple would.

I played with the 1st Nexus phone and really liked the screen size; the SIII is a tad big but I'd still buy it if it was made by Apple. I'm just not into Android (yet) and feel that Apple's fit and finish is superior to anyone's.

I'm married to Apple's style and ecosystem. If Jony Ive moved to Samsung I'd be switching, quick!

But oh, that screen (size)...
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:03 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
That's what he's saying...they can choose not to
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Originally Posted by frayne182 View Post
lol yeah he said that.
He said Apple is obligated to report sales. That is BS. He said that Samsung didn't have any sales per se. That is BS.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:04 PM   #114
Ryth
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
It's really simple, Apple is a public company and a retail seller. As such it is obliged to report sales. Samsung is not a retail seller, they do not have to report "sales" and they do not have any sales per se. All they do they ship their products to retailers. And they do report shipments (like 30 milllion shipped SGSIII that they reported a few day ago).
And the issue with this is that it's not an accurate measurement of end sale to customer...

Retailers can return unsold units for a refund. That's how retail works.

With Samsung since they produce many of the components for their devices so they can take back the units without taking much of a loss vs other manufacturers of devices.

Like it was revealed in the court case...

The figures do not appear to show how many Samsung devices were returned from carriers or retailers because they did not sell.

People continue to ignore this major fact. Samsung should be forced to reveal, as all manufacturers should, product returned due to no sales.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:04 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
You really don't get how retail works do you.

Retailers order stock. They can return that stock if it doesn't sell to the naufacturer.

Then they order new stock of the newest device.

Cycle repeats.
And because they don't sell and have to return a lot of smartphones next quarter they order even more to return even more. Quarter after quarter
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:04 PM   #116
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Has anyone used a Galaxy device? They dont compare in quality or function. I had Android before, and I provide support for some staff own those devices, and the issue lies in both the hardware and the usability of the software. That ecosystem is just not as functional or as easy to approach as it should be. They may be cheaper to purchase, and to manufacture, but they are just not that great of a device or mobile OS.
Millions of people (including me) disagree with you, so that's not a fact that you are stating.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:04 PM   #117
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He said Apple is obligated to report sales. That is BS. He said that Samsung didn't have any sales per se. That is BS.
I always thought they were obliged to report sales.....


As a public company isn't that a given?

Correct me if I'm wrong though cause I'm not truly sure. Just always thought that
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:05 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
i believe I'm at a point where I believe no matter what's said, if it's pro-android you'll refute it and if it's pro-apple you'll accept it. is this close?

Why can't they both be good? I sure do love both...i can't be the only one
Do you actually disagree with anything that I've said or are you just calling me a fanboy?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:05 PM   #119
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Fact is the Samsung is a better phone. It just doesn't have the mystique!
What makes the Samsung a better phone that it could be fact?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:06 PM   #120
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Sold vs Ship. Wow. Newsflash people : Apple reports Shipped also. See Q2 '12 earnings vs Q3 '12 earnings.

Q2 showed "35 million units" of iPhone "sold". Q3 showed 26 million. When asked why the big drop off for the summer quarter, Apple justified it as "unsold phones in the channels from overshipping in Q2.

The simple fact is, stuffing the channels works for 1 quarter. If quarter after quarter is showing these sales, there is no "sitting on the shelves". If stuff sits on the shelves or gets returned to the manufacturer unsold, it's going to hurt.

It hurt Apple in their Q3 earnings, resulting in a miss in expectations. Wake up, your BS argument only goes to show how much you care so much about something that matters so little. Who cares which phone outsold which ? You're happy with your purchase yes ? That's all that matters.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:07 PM   #121
Ryth
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Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
Common sense is not allowed on these boards!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------



That's what he's saying...they can choose not to

----------



you like that line don't you?
Yep..because the majority here don't understand it. How do I know..because I use to work for a company that use to make DVD's that sold at Best Buy on the shelves.

Guess what...Best Buy bought a ton. Seemed like we made a lot of money. But we weren't going to get a check till they got past the return date.

Guess what...unsold quantities were returned to our distributor 6 months later. They had to issue a credit to BB.

Total sales weren't that great even though original sales were. That's why people don't use shipped as a metric if they know what they are talking about.

That's how retail works.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:07 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
He said Apple is obligated to report sales. That is BS. He said that Samsung didn't have any sales per se. That is BS.
i thought as a publicly traded company they were obligated?? No?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:07 PM   #123
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The iPhone 5 is nice, no doubt about it, battery woes aside, but the OS just hasn't changed enough to make me want to keep it, so I did thr unthinkable and returned it for a galaxy note 2. I can see some are starting to make the change..
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:08 PM   #124
Ryth
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
And because they don't sell and have to return a lot of smartphones next quarter they order even more to return even more. Quarter after quarter
It doesn't cost the retailer anything. The manufacturer pays for shipping and has to issue a credit to the retailer.

So yes, they do this quarter after quarter after quarter.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:08 PM   #125
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Yep..because the majority here don't understand it. How do I know..because I use to work for a company that use to make DVD's that sold at Best Buy on the shelves.

Guess what...Best Buy bought a ton. Seemed like we made a lot of money. But we weren't going to get a check till they got past the return date.

Guess what...unsold quantities were returned to our distributor 6 months later. They had to issue a credit to BB.

Total sales weren't that great even though original sales were.

That's how retail works.
BAM! Retail 101, check. Now I just need an investor and I'll be on my way to the top!!!
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