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Old Nov 9, 2012, 10:28 AM   #1
likemyorbs
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GOP starting to have a change of heart on immigration

Conservative Fox News and radio host Sean Hannity said Thursday that his views on immigration have "evolved." Hannity continued:

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We've gotta get rid of the immigration issue altogether. It's simple for me to fix it. I think you control the border first, you create a pathway for those people that are here, you don't say you gotta go home. And that is a position that I've evolved on. Because you know what—it just—it's gotta be resolved. The majority of people here—if some people have criminal records you can send 'em home—but if people are here, law-abiding, participating, four years, their kids are born here ... first secure the border, pathway to citizenship ... then it's done. But you can't let the problem continue. It's gotta stop.
Meanwhile, in an interview with ABC News' Diane Sawyer, House Speaker John Boehner said he is "confident" the two parties can agree to a deal on immigration.
"This issue has been around far too long," Boehner said. "A comprehensive approach is long overdue, and I'm confident that the president, myself, others can find the common ground to take care of this issue once and for all."

Maybe if the GOP keeps this up and continues changing their positions on things they can't win on, maybe we can start getting things done.

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Old Nov 9, 2012, 10:36 AM   #2
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I'd imagine that the shellacking received by the GOP from minorities (especially Latinos) during this election helped to "speed up" that evolution. They either learn to embrace and accept the Hispanic / Latino population or disappear into American history.

I chucked at the irony of Hannity using the word "evolved."
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 10:55 AM   #3
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Well lets see what they end up doing. They can talk all they want but until they start voting in a non-discriminatory way, I'm dubious.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:03 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
"This issue has been around far too long," Boehner said. "A comprehensive approach is long overdue, and I'm confident that the president, myself, others can find the common ground to take care of this issue once and for all."
In other words, amnesty, and lots of it, because importing million of voters that will skew heavily D will help the GOP. Wait, what?

Quote:
Maybe if the GOP keeps this up and continues changing their positions on things they can't win on, maybe we can start getting things done.
Going on about immigration is exactly the wrong tack the GOP needs right now.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:05 AM   #5
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Parties evolve usually out of necessity. The Democrats gave up their support of slavery pretty quickly after 1863 Republicans eventually started supporting programs that Roosevelt put in place.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:09 AM   #6
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In other words, amnesty, and lots of it, because importing million of voters that will skew heavily D will help the GOP. Wait, what?
Honestly, immigrants are largely a conservative bunch. If you win them over with acceptance, the GOP could sway many of them over to their side. Right now, they aren't cutting it though.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:25 AM   #7
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He realized he couldn't win that one. I can understand that. I don't have to like Hannity, but I can understand it.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:30 AM   #8
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And now for your viewing pleasure:

Spanish is the "language of the ghetto" by Mr. Newt Gingrich : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rF694NzjPU

One language license exam by Alabama's Tim James : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEPh_KlTyII
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:34 AM   #9
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Honestly, immigrants are largely a conservative bunch. If you win them over with acceptance, the GOP could sway many of them over to their side. Right now, they aren't cutting it though.
Umm, no. You can look at CNN's exit polling data and see for yourself that Romney lost heavily among Hispanics and Asians, almost by a 3:1 margin.

Also, if we're trying to boil this away to the immigrant vote, it does us well to look at some states where there aren't many immigrants, such as Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Oregon, and Wisconsin. Maine for example, is 94% white (census data found at wiki). Romney dominated the white vote nationally, something like 3:2, so absent a significant immigrant population, he should have been able to easily capture majority white states like those I listed above (and which all went to Obama). Since this didn't happen, obviously something else in in play. I have my theories.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:38 AM   #10
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But you can't let the problem continue. It's gotta stop. ~ Hannity
I'd suggest to Hannity that some problems can't be stopped.

You can alleviate it. You can mitigate it. But you can't simply "stop" it.

I think he needs to continue evolving that stance.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:39 AM   #11
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Honestly, immigrants are largely a conservative bunch. If you win them over with acceptance, the GOP could sway many of them over to their side. Right now, they aren't cutting it though.
There are polls and studies that say Hispanics would vote more conservatively if not for the immigration issue, there are a lot of families that live here that want to wipe the slate clean and have a fast track to citizenship. Other immigrants i have not seen data on.

I will look for the link on that.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:50 AM   #12
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I have my theories.

Do tell.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:55 AM   #13
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I chucked at the irony of Hannity using the word "evolved."
I did, too. Reminded me of Obama's use of "evolve" with gay marriage.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:00 PM   #14
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Do tell.
1) Give up on abortion. It's settled law.
2) Quit with the breaks for the super wealthy ($250k+). That segment leans hard blue anyway, so the GOP isn't getting much back for their investment there. Interestingly enough, those just into 6 figure range go more red than blue. Keep courting them.
3) Counter the left's strategy of identity politics by repositioning as the champion of the white working class.
3b) Rebrand the family values platform as middle class values.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum View Post
Umm, no. You can look at CNN's exit polling data and see for yourself that Romney lost heavily among Hispanics and Asians, almost by a 3:1 margin.

Also, if we're trying to boil this away to the immigrant vote, it does us well to look at some states where there aren't many immigrants, such as Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Oregon, and Wisconsin. Maine for example, is 94% white (census data found at wiki). Romney dominated the white vote nationally, something like 3:2, so absent a significant immigrant population, he should have been able to easily capture majority white states like those I listed above (and which all went to Obama). Since this didn't happen, obviously something else in in play. I have my theories.
I'm not sure about the Asian vote but if the GOP had a different stance on immigration, Romney might have won this election. The GOP has alienated the Hispanic vote especially with their stances. If the GOP changes their tune, then it is definitely possible that the Hispanic vote could swing more in their favor.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:04 PM   #16
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I did, too. Reminded me of Obama's use of "evolve" with gay marriage.
Exactly! I don't have a problem with Republicans' positions on issues related to equality and civil rights evolving. I don't have a problem with Republicans realizing that you can't win by demonizing people who look or act differently than you.

That being said, I'm incredibly happy that they didn't realize that sooner. This was an election that Obama shouldn't have won. Unemployment was high, job approval was low, things seemed stagnant. But, the GOP was so effective at preventing the President from accomplishing much on the economy, the public still blamed the economy on GWB.

Had the GOP passed the President's agenda, or at least didn't block it so much, they could have tarred and feathered him with it. Had the GOP not been so backwards on issues related to women, minorities, etc. and stayed on the economics message, they could have won.

Missed opportunities are the bane of many a campaign.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:48 PM   #17
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Its because they need the Latino vote to run someone like Rubio in 2016.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:55 PM   #18
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Its because they need the Latino vote to run someone like Rubio in 2016.
Watch the Dems counter with Julian Castro, the current mayor of San Antonio who gave the keynote at the DNC this year.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 01:07 PM   #19
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I did, too. Reminded me of Obama's use of "evolve" with gay marriage.
yes but then the republicans have never been big believers in evolution.......maybe they might try a little intelligent redesign though?

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Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum View Post
......3) Counter the left's strategy of identity politics by repositioning as the champion of the white working class.
I suspect the democrats would be happy to have the republicans continue down that road.....people like Sean Hannity have realized it's a failed policy that only appeals to a decreasing percentage of of the population

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3b) Rebrand the family values platform as middle class values.
that works for the GOP primary but when it gets to the general election, it's another failed policy they've been promoting for several decades now......just look at the success of gay marriage laws this year despite the "family values" folks opposition
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 01:29 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum View Post
1) Give up on abortion. It's settled law.
2) Quit with the breaks for the super wealthy ($250k+). That segment leans hard blue anyway, so the GOP isn't getting much back for their investment there. Interestingly enough, those just into 6 figure range go more red than blue. Keep courting them.
3) Counter the left's strategy of identity politics by repositioning as the champion of the white working class.
3b) Rebrand the family values platform as middle class values.
I don't see #1 happening with 33 abortion bills passed by the house in 2012 alone and the base still stuck on the issue.

#2 would make sense for them.

#3 is the same old. Whites are declining. The GOP must appeal to women, blacks, Asians and Hispanics if they want to compete nationally. Even some of the staunchest GOPers have stated this. The fact is, the GOP can't compete when they only get 25% of the hispanic vote, 45% of women, under 20% of Asians and single digits of the black vote.

Rebranding family values as middle class values is comical. Despite Citizens United, the American people didn't buy into the ******** the GOP PACVs were peddling.

You want the GOP to gain traction? Have them stop their racist, misogynistic, homophobic and similar behaviors and appeal to a broad base of Americans.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 01:45 PM   #21
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You want the GOP to gain traction? Have them stop their racist, misogynistic, homophobic and similar behaviors and appeal to a broad base of Americans.
Suppose they did all that. Wouldn't they just be moderate Democrats, favoring fiscal responsibility and a hands-off social policy?
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 01:51 PM   #22
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Suppose they did all that. Wouldn't they just be moderate Democrats, favoring fiscal responsibility and a hands-off social policy?
Either you appeal to a broad swath of the population or you die.

While the Republicans held the house, they did so with fewer votes than the Democrats (in other words, Democrats in the house received more total votes than Republicans in the house) received and by gerrymandering.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 02:36 PM   #23
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In other words, amnesty, and lots of it, because importing million of voters that will skew heavily D will help the GOP. Wait, what?

Going on about immigration is exactly the wrong tack the GOP needs right now.
So this is a case of damned if you do damned if you do not. If the GOP continues to not address immigration and does not meet the needs of the hispanic voters, then they will not win. And yes, if they do import millions of voters into the race there is a good chance that they will not vote for them either. At least not at first. However if they actively reach out to them they might be able to change hearts and minds. But if they sit on their hands and do nothing, then nothing will change and they will keep losing this important demographic.

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I'm not sure about the Asian vote but if the GOP had a different stance on immigration, Romney might have won this election.
Also Romney didn't exploit his connection to Mexico enough. Although if he did it might have led to questions as to why his family was there in the first place!!

The way I see things going forward is that the Republican party is screwed. Here are a number of problems facing that party that I do not know how they resolve:

The Democratic party which once did not have the balls to stand by their own principles are now not ashamed to. This means that they are no longer afraid to bring up things like gay rights or women's choice quite vocally and publicly. Society has evolved and this puts Republicans in a real pickle. Try to evolve too, and they lose the evangelicals making winning an election tough. However, if they do not evolve, then they cannot win a general election either.

Loud voices on the right have been allowed to become the voice of the party pushing voters away. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward in light of so many of these voices losing the elections, however there are many in the party still saying they aren't far right enough and that is not why they are winning. It is completely delusional of course, but in their bubble they think that is why they lose elections.

Then you have the lack of outreach to minority groups. The solution to that may be to put the Marco Rubio's in the party out there and up for nomination, but the white guys in the party might not appreciate being marginalized off to the side and shut out of the party going forward. It's not going to be pretty.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 03:10 PM   #24
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Wow, Cubans, long a very reliable Republican voting bloc, only went for Romney 52-48.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 04:28 PM   #25
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In other words, amnesty, and lots of it, because importing million of voters that will skew heavily D will help the GOP. Wait, what?

Going on about immigration is exactly the wrong tack the GOP needs right now.
Importing? They're already here. I also seriously question the idea that immigrants will automatically vote Dem. They generally tend to be socially and fiscally conservative as well as very family oriented. The problem the Republicans have is there are way too many extremists and not enough moderates. Extremism is not the way to pull in newly immigrant voters. They're just want to fit in, not stand out with a vocal minority.

Here in California, there are simply too many illegals to deport them all. Can you provide any reasonable solution?

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Wow, Cubans, long a very reliable Republican voting bloc, only went for Romney 52-48.
I'm not surprised.
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