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Old Nov 10, 2012, 05:11 PM   #51
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abused? a bj in the oval office? that's legendary! haha
For what it is worth, I've met Bill Clinton, and, like many who have met him, I have been enormously impressed by the intelligence and incredible personality of the man, and, also must confess that I was somewhat bowled over by his (megawatt, and yes, that is what it is) charisma, a quality he has in abundance.

Moreover, his hard work, drive and commitment to the Northern Ireland peace process (along with the superlative, patient, tenacious and utterly heroic work of Senator George Mitchell) leaves those of us from Ireland profoundly in his debt.

However, much though I admire and like the man, a bj in the Oval Office is not just inappropriate, but is....unbecoming; it shows a lack of respect for the office. In essence, he let himself down, and let his office and his electorate down, too. Worse, by his actions, he enabled his detractors to cripple his second term and undermine his (much-needed) legislative programme.

I'll freely admit I could happily have strangled him. However, like most Europeans, I did not - and do not - think it was a matter for impeachment, and this is a matter on which I had vehement disagreements with friends who are ardent Democrats.

Re General Petraeus, it'll come out, and sooner rather than later. This sort of stuff always does.

If the FBI - supposedly - have been investigating for more than a year, something must have triggered this. The timing is interesting, but so, I imagine is the story. The fact that the resignation for such reasons may be a possible smoke-screen, does not mean it is not true.

Besides, with all of those 'traditional family values' so cherished in Republican and conservative circles, when one - especially a senior 'one' transgresses from that side of the political, social and cultural divide on an issue such as this, it is seen as somehow a more serious short-coming. After all, Republicans promote this stuff, whereas Democrats, by definition, are out to undermine it. And the military used to be considered especially stalwart in the promotion of such traditional values.

And, is it not well known that the 'cool' young, urban people, young single women (and men), divorcees, gays, lesbians, and all of the other varied deviants who vote Democrat don't set much store by 'traditional' family values, according to Republican rhetoric.......
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:26 PM   #52
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How about this. Google it.
How about this ... it was you who claimed that this involved "No security breach, no information leaked, no threat to national security ..."

Since this is your contention, then source it.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 10:20 PM   #53
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Regardless of ones personal opinion of him, it's hard to deny the many decades of experience he brought to the table, especially the last decade.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 10:28 PM   #54
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So he got laid else where then resign? Why? Clinton got laid else where and did not resign! 'Merica man i tell you!
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 11:15 PM   #55
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So he got laid else where then resign? Why? Clinton got laid else where and did not resign! 'Merica man i tell you!
Gingrich has had a pretty healthy political career, and Anthony Weiner (D) resigned over merely sexting. A sex scandal sticking or not isn't related to your party affiliation (or, seemingly, related to just about anything).

For what it's worth, I don't care what a politician does in their personal life unless it is reflective of a conflict with their platform. A marital scandal is of importance only inasmuch as the person campaigns on marital legislation. Similarly a politician caught canoodling with a swarm of bees would only be problematic if they had taken a decidedly anti-bee stance. I am otherwise inclined to allow them the luxury of living their life.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 11:38 PM   #56
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Regardless of ones personal opinion of him, it's hard to deny the many decades of experience he brought to the table, especially the last decade.
Yeah, it appears that Petraeus made several important, but utterly human mistakes and it's a loss for the intelligence community.

There are number of issues surrounding this story, the first is how Petraeus used Gmail, the information and access he gave Broadwell during her interviews, his affair and the anonymous third person who complained about harassing emails from Broadwell to the FBI.

There's a little more to this story.

Also, a side-note about how the FBI used a National Security Letter to essentially wiretap the CIA could lead to an interesting discussion, far more interesting than rehashing the old Clinton bon bon.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 11:59 PM   #57
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There's a little more to this story.
In Broadwell's interview on the Daily Show, she said something about Petraeus mentoring others. That statement and the third woman involved lead me to wonder whether he has had a number of these affairs.

There certainly is more to the story. How much of it we'll know about is yet to be determined.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 07:48 AM   #58
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How about this ... it was you who claimed that this involved "No security breach, no information leaked, no threat to national security ..."

Since this is your contention, then source it.
read the articles.

They are assuming she had access to his email. Assuming and yet to prove.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 08:07 AM   #59
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How about this ... it was you who claimed that this involved "No security breach, no information leaked, no threat to national security ..."

Since this is your contention, then source it.
MSNBC
Investigators concluded that there was no criminal violation, law enforcement sources told NBC News.

Agents interviewed Petraeus in late October, the senior law enforcement official said.

Asked about criticism from some on Capitol Hill that the FBI didn’t tell members of the intelligence committees about this sooner, the official said investigators determined "this was not an intelligence matter. It did not fall on that side of things."
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:54 AM   #60
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MSNBC
Investigators concluded that there was no criminal violation, law enforcement sources told NBC News.

Agents interviewed Petraeus in late October, the senior law enforcement official said.

Asked about criticism from some on Capitol Hill that the FBI didn’t tell members of the intelligence committees about this sooner, the official said investigators determined "this was not an intelligence matter. It did not fall on that side of things."
No need to shout.

The problem is that you're assuming you know everything about this affair and everything beyond this affair.

I'm not sure why you're so willing to leap to these conclusions so soon.

Let the process of discovery and disclosure reveal the truth, or at least more of it.

Don't try to force it (in giant red type) down our throats.

Thank you.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 01:09 PM   #61
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Other issues, such as a breach of trust, are for the respective spouses to deal with. However, there are areas where I feel matters are less clear-cut - such as where there is an abuse of power in such a relationship.
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I'm not clear why Petraeus resigned.
I'm traveling and not up on all the details, but my understanding that people in the CIA, due to access to classified material, are held to stricter standards regarding their privacy. Most interesting and suspicious are GOP gyrations to turn this into an Obama Administration scandal. You know, latch onto anything to give you a political advantage. It's classic GOP tactics ala Clinton as mentioned by Scepticalscribe.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 07:23 PM   #62
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David Petraeus better half

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A letter from Holly Petraeus

Hello and welcome from the Office of Servicemember Affairs!

We are here to see that military personnel and their families have a voice at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. We understand that military life can have some extra challenges, such as deployment and frequent moves, and that those challenges can sometimes have powerful financial repercussions. We also know that there are businesses and scammers that target servicemembers with bad deals and outright rip-offs, and that there are other businesses that treat them well.
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/petraeus-letter/
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 01:21 AM   #63
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Boy here's a weird twist to this tale.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...-concerns?lite

------------

Meanwhile, it has come to light that the FBI agent contacted by Kelley about the emails she received from Broadwell was removed from the case. According to officials, the agent’s supervisors said he had become infatuated with Kelley and had sent her shirtless photos of himself.


-------------

And a general :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2120609.html
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 10:44 AM   #64
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Now with email evidence of Petraeus with a possible inappropriate relationship with Jill Kelley, and Jill Kelley with Petraeus' understudy, General John Allen, in a possible inappropriate relationship, this turns out into have what has been deemed a Greek tragedy. Petraeus is out and I won't be surprised if Allen soon steps down, too.

You will have cases in a close circle where two men share a woman, like let's say Anita Pallenberg with Brian Jones and Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones. For two rock stars, it's a story but not out of character. Then you have cases of people on the hill with inappropriate relationships like the scandals that followed Clinton and Gingrich which while still understandable, is looked down upon somewhat more. But when stuff like this is mixed with the CIA head, commander of Afghanistan, and two married women with "unusual" access to these two, then you have a Watergate type scandal which will last a long time. These two women in question are married to doctors, and themselves are well enough off, and it's puzzling to see why they would act like 21 year old groupies. Also a man who heads the CIA at the same time as a Marine four star general to fall for these two is pretty sad.

With the election now over, the press is hungry to have something to be working on that's big with a potential for unending interest and this can potentially be it. I don't know what it will be called but I can't recall a time since world war II (MacArthur and Patton) when two powerful generals were destroyed.

http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/11/13...ll-dave-paula/

Also one has to ask why Jill Kelley complained about emails from Paula Broadwell but not to the alleged sexual/inappropriate emails sent to her by General Allen. Did Broadwell know of Kelley's affections for generals (General Allen possibly being one) and try to keep her from moving in on her man, General Petraeus? It may sound like one groupie fighting against another one over guys with four stars.

Last edited by 63dot; Nov 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 05:50 PM   #65
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The whole thing sounds like a mashup of *MASH* with a selection of Danielle Steele novels from the 80s. You'd think we could advance the frames a little faster when we construct these media-ready pastiches so that we get back to the real 21st century faster. But I do always like the parts where the wax wings fall off.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:13 AM   #66
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What I find hilarious about the whole Petraeus thing is that within a week we know everything about his sex life, mistress, emails, phone calls, other methods of communications and so on but we are still in the dark about the full extent of Fast and Furious and Benghazi.

Well it looks like Petraeus will testify on Benghazi. I'm sure the Obama administration will supply him with answers to all the questions on that issue with a big smile on their face as they hold this sex scandal over his head.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:16 AM   #67
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I'm sure the Obama administration will supply him with answers to all the questions on that issue with a big smile on their face as they hold this sex scandal over his head.
Now that the sex scandal is out, what do you think they still have on him? Further information? Possible criminal charges due to leaked information? Just wondering...
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:52 AM   #68
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Now that the sex scandal is out, what do you think they still have on him? Further information? Possible criminal charges due to leaked information? Just wondering...
Most likely things like pressing charges, pension and so on and probably dragging his name through more mud.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:33 AM   #69
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This whole thing revolves around that Jill Kelley person. And today she tried to use diplomatic immunity. Ha !

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-immunity?lite

“I am an honorary consul general, so I have inviolability,” Kelley told a 911 dispatcher. “They should not be able to cross my property. I don’t know if you want to get diplomatic protection involved as well?”
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:40 AM   #70
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This whole thing revolves around that Jill Kelley person. And today she tried to use diplomatic immunity. Ha !

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-immunity?lite

“I am an honorary consul general, so I have inviolability,” Kelley told a 911 dispatcher. “They should not be able to cross my property. I don’t know if you want to get diplomatic protection involved as well?”
Something I've been unable to understand is this - why was Kelley's first thought about the anonymous, harassing emails she was receiving to go to the FBI, and why did the FBI "take the case"? It was the FBI that figured out the emails were coming from Broadwell. I just have a hard time wrapping me head around (1) why someone starts by contacting the FBI, and (2) why the FBI would be inclined to take the case (at a time when they didn't know it involved a top US official). Maybe I'm missing something obvious.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:46 AM   #71
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Something I've been unable to understand is this - why was Kelley's first thought about the anonymous, harassing emails she was receiving to go to the FBI, and why did the FBI "take the case"? It was the FBI that figured out the emails were coming from Broadwell. I just have a hard time wrapping me head around (1) why someone starts by contacting the FBI, and (2) why the FBI would be inclined to take the case (at a time when they didn't know it involved a top US official). Maybe I'm missing something obvious.
The FBI was contacted because Jill had a friend that was in the FBI and he liked to email her pics of himself without a shirt. Weird huh ?

And now it turns out the FBI has found classified documents in the house that belongs to Paula Broadwell.

http://gma.yahoo.com/broadwell-class...114054139.html
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:52 AM   #72
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The FBI was contacted because Jill had a friend that was in the FBI and he liked to email her pics of himself without a shirt. Weird huh ?

And now it turns out the FBI has found classified documents in the house that belongs to Paula Broadwell.

http://gma.yahoo.com/broadwell-class...114054139.html
So strange and odd. I guess she thought that she could simply use her friend tap into the FBI resources to analyze one little situation at her behest. Talk about waking a sleeping dog, creating a Frankenstein and [insert your own analogy here].
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 05:04 PM   #73
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Thought this FP article asked some pretty good questions.

Investigate the FBI
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:20 PM   #74
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I predict news articles by the weekend (after he testifies) that claim Petraeus is out for revenge for "being made" to step down, a liar, and/or can't be trusted.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:43 PM   #75
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Ok i know I'm going to take a lot of heat for this comment, but here its goes:
Look at his wife Holly, she's effing hideous. I truly feel bad for him. She was gorgeous when they got married too, now she looks 10 years older than him. Come on guys, don't tell me it wouldn't take everything inside you to resist that affair...I can understand how he caved.
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