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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:45 PM   #1
glocke12
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San Fran. Poised to Pay for Sex Changes

Can someone explain to me why this is the taxpayers responsibility?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93...1#.UJ6gX0Lnv7I

"San Francisco is prepared to make history by becoming the only city to pay for employees’ sex changes — a move some say is long overdue in ending discriminatory practices against transsexuals.

“It really is a civil rights issue,” said Marcus Arana, a transgender San Francisco Human Rights Commission discrimination investigator. “We have an insurance issued that will pay for a hysterectomy in Mary but not in Marcus, and will pay for hormone therapy in Mary but not in Marcus.”
"
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:00 PM   #2
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Can someone explain to me why this is the taxpayers responsibility?
Personally, I don't believe it is.

But it is going to be voted on by a group of elected officials, and their constituents will have the opportunity to vote them out of office when their term is up if they don't agree with the decision.

It's local politics at work.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:32 PM   #3
jnpy!$4g3cwk
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Can someone explain to me why this is the taxpayers responsibility?

"
It is considered part of medical care.

In any case, before everybody goes ballistic about this, how much money are we talking about?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:43 PM   #4
glocke12
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It is considered part of medical care.

In any case, before everybody goes ballistic about this, how much money are we talking about?
Its elective surgery, not something that is mandatory for them to live.

The same as it was for the orthodontics I had an adult which were elective and not covered under my medical insurance.

Seriously, why should the taxpayers be burdened with this?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:53 PM   #5
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Its elective surgery, not something that is mandatory for them to live.

The same as it was for the orthodontics I had an adult which were elective and not covered under my medical insurance.

Seriously, why should the taxpayers be burdened with this?
This comparison shows the glaring ignorance on your part about the subject. There is a mental health issue when your brain is disconnected from your body (e.g. your brain tells you you're a male, but you're living inside a female body). Thus, it can be a matter of life or death if the individual has suicidal ideations and attempts to commit suicide.

The world is changing, and we are becoming more aware of sexual identity disorders. I would recommend that you read up on it and learn. Don't expect San Francisco to not progress.

ETA: The more I think about it, I'm kind of surprised that sex changes aren't yet covered under insurance, considering sexual identity disorders/sexual dysphoria has been in the DSM for a while already. If this works out for SF, I will be happy and hope that the rest of the country follows.

Last edited by vega07; Nov 10, 2012 at 03:31 PM.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:43 PM   #6
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This comparison shows the glaring ignorance on your part about the subject. There is a mental health issue when your brain is disconnected from your body (e.g. your brain tells you you're a male, but you're living inside a female body). Thus, it can be a matter of life or death if the individual has suicidal ideations and attempts to commit suicide.

The world is changing, and we are becoming more aware of sexual identity disorders. I would recommend that you read up on it and learn. Don't expect San Francisco to not progress.

ETA: The more I think about it, I'm kind of surprised that sex changes aren't yet covered under insurance, considering sexual identity disorders/sexual dysphoria has been in the DSM for a while already. If this works out for SF, I will be happy and hope that the rest of the country follows.

ok, fair enough...I am ignorant according to you. You know what? Maybe my crooked teeth made me self concious enough that it was affecting my personal relationships and made me want to kill myself....Where is my tax funded dental procedure?

Anyway, In my book this is one more example of frivolous spending of taxpayer money.

my question is at what point does the taxpayer spending stop??? Do we have to subsidize everything for everyone?

Last edited by glocke12; Nov 10, 2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:49 PM   #7
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Iran pays for up to half the cost of sex change operations, so I fail to see the issue...
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:50 PM   #8
vega07
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ok, fair enough...I am ignorant according to you...In my book this is one more example of frivolous spending of taxpayer money.

my question is at what point does the taxpayer spending stop??? Do we have to subsidize everything for everyone?
Of course we shouldn't subsidize everything for everyone. No one disagrees with you there. But this issue clearly falls under healthcare. If you actually talk to people with sexual identity disorders, you wouldn't think it's frivolous spending. And again, you only think it's frivolous spending because you don't know enough on the subject.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:57 PM   #9
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Iran pays for up to half the cost of sex change operations, so I fail to see the issue...
Money....thats the issue. CA is one of the, if not the most cash strapped states in the nation. This is the type of thing that led to that problem.

I don't deny that gender identity issues are real, I just fail to see why taxpayers should shoulder the burden of paying for the operations. Seriously, we can't just keep raising taxes to continue to pay for everything.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:58 PM   #10
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Iran pays for up to half the cost of sex change operations, so I fail to see the issue...
That is shocking!

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Sex changes have been legal in Iran since Ayatollah Khomeini, the spiritual leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution, passed a fatwa - a religious edict - authorising them for "diagnosed transsexuals" 25 years ago.

Today, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except for Thailand.

The government even provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance and a sex change is recognised on your birth certificate.

"Islam has a cure for people suffering from this problem. If they want to change their gender, the path is open," says Hojatol Islam Muhammad Mehdi Kariminia, the religious cleric responsible for gender reassignment.

He says an operation is no more a sin than "changing wheat to flour to bread".

Yet homosexuality is still punishable by death.

"The discussion is fundamentally separate from a discussion regarding homosexuals. Absolutely not related. Homosexuals are doing something unnatural and against religion," says Kariminia. "It is clearly stated in our Islamic law that such behaviour is not allowed because it disrupts the social order."
Very interesting, especially when you compare Iran's culture to that of America's. Thanks for the link!
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:59 PM   #11
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....I don't deny that gender identity issues are real, I just fail to see why taxpayers should shoulder the burden of paying for the operations. Seriously, we can't just keep raising taxes to continue to pay for everything.
so you're pissed that we decided not to pay for your teeth?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:00 PM   #12
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Its elective surgery, not something that is mandatory for them to live.
If that's your criteria, a couple choosing to have a baby is not something that is mandatory for them to live. So why do single taxpayers have to pay for the coupled up taxpayers who want children? How about someone who knowingly has a high risk pregnancy, like later in life?
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:02 PM   #13
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Maybe my crooked teeth made me self concious enough that it was affecting my personal relationships and made me want to kill myself....Where is my tax funded dental procedure?
I thought you'd go there.

When that disorder (suicide ideation secondary to crooked teeth) is listed in the DSM, then we can start discussing.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:04 PM   #14
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If that's your criteria, a couple choosing to have a baby is not something that is mandatory for them to live. So why do single taxpayers have to pay for the coupled up taxpayers who want children? How about someone who knowingly has a high risk pregnancy, like later in life?
I don't agree with that subsidy either.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:12 PM   #15
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Money....thats the issue. CA is one of the, if not the most cash strapped states in the nation. This is the type of thing that led to that problem.
Right, because once it's allowed, everyone on this forum will run to their nearest sex change clinic and get one.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:13 PM   #16
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I don't agree with that subsidy either.
OK. But, I'm still trying to figure out if you:

1) Object to the government paying for anything but a navy to keep foreign invaders away ("pure" Libertarian)
2) Object to transgender operations but not cardiovascular surgery
3) Are concerned mainly about the cost

If it is the third issue -- how much money are we talking about? How common is the surgery, how much does it cost, what is the experience in other places that pay for it?

If it is the first issue -- we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not willing to just let people die for want of a bypass operation.

If it is the second issue -- you may think that this is analogous to cosmetic surgery. Others seem to disagree. Perhaps we could use some more information from those who know more about it than I do.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 01:31 AM   #17
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I don't agree with that subsidy either.
So, you think the insurance should only cover life-saving treatments?
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 01:38 AM   #18
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That's just wrong... and nasty

I'm sorry if i offend, I have plenty of gay friends and have no hate towards them at all.. but I can't stand sex changes.. especially sex changes when they go wrong.. ughh I can't even give an example. its funny that my homosexual friends agree with me also
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 02:09 AM   #19
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If it is the third issue -- how much money are we talking about? How common is the surgery, how much does it cost, what is the experience in other places that pay for it?
Typical cost seems to be $25-$30K

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This is the type of thing that led to that problem.
Really? Letting the inmates run the asylum via Propositions is the type of thing that has lead to CA's current problems (namely Pro 13 that got the ball rolling).

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That's just wrong... and nasty

I'm sorry if i offend, I have plenty of gay friends and have no hate towards them at all.. but I can't stand sex changes.. especially sex changes when they go wrong.. ughh I can't even give an example. its funny that my homosexual friends agree with me also
Transgender and homosexuality aren't the same thing and from my knowledge, which is limited, transgender people seem to be as misunderstood by homos as they are by heteros.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 05:15 AM   #20
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Right, because once it's allowed, everyone on this forum will run to their nearest sex change clinic and get one.
That really made me LOL.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:37 AM   #21
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its funny that my homosexual friends agree with me also
Has anyone else ever noticed that those who have "homosexual friends" seem to have discussed every possible issue with them, and find that their homosexual friends always seem to agree with their own beliefs.

Even those who have homosexual friends who are against homosexual rights. Uh huh.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:41 AM   #22
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ok, fair enough...I am ignorant according to you. You know what? Maybe my crooked teeth made me self concious enough that it was affecting my personal relationships and made me want to kill myself....Where is my tax funded dental procedure?
Perhaps the taxpayers gave it a good long think and decided they'd just as soon take their chances.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:52 AM   #23
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Transgender and homosexuality aren't the same thing and from my knowledge, which is limited, transgender people seem to be as misunderstood by homos as they are by heteros.
Naturally. If ever there was a group comfortable with their own bodies and their own genitalia, it's lesbians and gay men.

Many years ago I read an autobiography by the British travel writer Jan (formerly James) Morris, in which she explained all her reasons for feeling like a woman. And I was just puzzled, because none of them, to my thinking, had anything to do with being male or female. They were just traits and activities that were more common among women.

I've made my peace with the knowledge that I'll never understand what it is to be transsexual. I don't get it and I never will.

But I don't have to understand it to accept it. Including understanding that it's a medical necessity for those who are transsexual.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 11:57 AM   #24
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Has anyone else ever noticed that those who have "homosexual friends" seem to have discussed every possible issue with them, and find that their homosexual friends always seem to agree with their own beliefs.

Even those who have homosexual friends who are against homosexual rights. Uh huh.
Funny? Mmmmm, no!

Perverse yes, but that is the Internet all over again.

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Old Nov 11, 2012, 12:01 PM   #25
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I can't even begin to understand what it is like to be a transexual but from what I've read, it can cause severe mental anguish in some people. Some are fine with the bodies they are born with, others take hormones and some really feel they need to physically change their body to more match their gender identity. I know people see this as elective procedure but I think for the people that have it, it helps their mental being so I am not against it.

And transexuality has nothing to do with homosexuality.
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