San Fran. Poised to Pay for Sex Changes - Page 3 - MacRumors Forums
Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:43 AM   #51
Muscle Master
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen of Spades View Post
If you can't stand them, don't get one. In the meantime, try educating yourself and being less judgmental about things which you clearly don't understand. I really doubt you have gay friends, and if you do, they sound like uneducated ones.
I guess I'll never understand.. transgender people must lack a chromosome cause.... while we are on the subject

What the hell makes a Man wanting to be a Woman and vice versa?

Is it the glamour, is it the heels, is it the short skirts... I mean please educate my ignorant ass
__________________
Apple Macbook Pro Retina '13 (Late 2012)
OS X Mountain Lion / Intel Core i5-3210M @ 3.1GHz / 8GB DDR3 1600MHz / Retina Display @ 2560x1600 / 128GB Solid State Drive | Slate Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Muscle Master is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:50 AM   #52
Moyank24
macrumors 68040
 
Moyank24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: in a New York State of mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
I guess I'll never understand.. transgender people must lack a chromosome cause.... while we are on the subject

What the hell makes a Man wanting to be a Woman and vice versa?

Is it the glamour, is it the heels, is it the short skirts... I mean please educate my ignorant ass
I'm guessing you'll never understand either - you clearly have no interest in learning.

Someone in this thread has gone through it - instead of being ignorant and offensive, why don't you ask her?
Moyank24 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:53 AM   #53
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Who puts the washers in the woods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
I guess I'll never understand.. transgender people must lack a chromosome cause.... while we are on the subject

What the hell makes a Man wanting to be a Woman and vice versa?

Is it the glamour, is it the heels, is it the short skirts... I mean please educate my ignorant ass
What makes a man want to be a man, or a woman want to be a woman? Don't know? Extrapolate from there. Short answer? Hell if anyone knows. It's one of those mysterious brain things.

It can't just be the glamor. I mean there's no way in hell someone would want to go through two years of hellish hormone therapy, then get your dangly bits chopped, flayed, and inverted because they thought it'd be a neat thing to do, like "oh hell, it's Friday. Why not". That's one thing about sex change operations. It's not something you go through on a lark. You have to really, really, really, really want to do it.
Renzatic is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:55 AM   #54
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
I guess I'll never understand.. transgender people must lack a chromosome cause.... while we are on the subject

What the hell makes a Man wanting to be a Woman and vice versa?

Is it the glamour, is it the heels, is it the short skirts... I mean please educate my ignorant ass
I think if you cared, there are plenty of books/websites on the subject of gender vs sex.

There is evidence that gender shows itself from an early age. I can admit that when your sex and gender mesh up, it seems very difficult to understand. I can fully accept though that my reality is not the reality of someone who is transgendered. I can also accept that there is definitely a gender spectrum.
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:04 AM   #55
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 11, 2013 at 07:58 AM.
  0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:14 AM   #56
ugahairydawgs
macrumors 68020
 
ugahairydawgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
Thank you. My point, though, was that so many procedures that are covered are much more unwarranted than this one. It seems like this is so easily dismissed because of ignorance and just plain old not being able to understand - or not wanting to understand.

The reality is that we pay for people who have made themselves ill - and it doesn't get nearly the attention or negativity that a procedure like this does. Why is that?
No idea.....but it should. We've become a culture that is too reliant on the government for just about everything.....and that includes fat conservatives.
ugahairydawgs is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:27 AM   #57
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
No idea.....but it should. We've become a culture that is too reliant on the government for just about everything.....and that includes fat conservatives.
But this is about insurance and an employer providing insurance that will allow for the surgery. I am a big fan of health insurance for all as it is something that can make or break lives, businesses and communities. In an era where employers are cutting health insurance benefits, it is good to see an employer add health insurance benefits that are scientifically backed as a good thing.
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:27 AM   #58
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Who puts the washers in the woods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
No idea.....but it should. We've become a culture that is too reliant on the government for just about everything.....and that includes fat conservatives.
Explain to me exactly how we've become "far too reliant" on the government? Compare society to how it was 60 years ago, and contrast it for me.
Renzatic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:33 AM   #59
Muscle Master
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
No idea.....but it should. We've become a culture that is too reliant on the government for just about everything.....and that includes fat conservatives.
Big difference paying for an obese person to become healthy than to pay for a damn sex change because James can't seem to live with a penis so he wants to become Jessica or die trying

If that's the logic... I rather pay for them to be institutionalized
__________________
Apple Macbook Pro Retina '13 (Late 2012)
OS X Mountain Lion / Intel Core i5-3210M @ 3.1GHz / 8GB DDR3 1600MHz / Retina Display @ 2560x1600 / 128GB Solid State Drive | Slate Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Muscle Master is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:42 AM   #60
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
Big difference paying for an obese person to become healthy than to pay for a damn sex change because James can't seem to live with a penis so he wants to become Jessica or die trying

If that's the logic... I rather pay for them to be institutionalized
Let's institutionalize fat people too because weight loss surgery actually has pretty poor performance over the long term. Sure there are a few people who have been able to lose weight and keep it off but the odds are mostly against them.

Who else should we institutionalize?

Rather than making someone a happy, productive member of society, you rather institutionalize them. Doesn't make sense to me.
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:42 AM   #61
Mord
macrumors G4
 
Mord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Old York
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
If that's the logic... I rather pay for them to be institutionalized
Institutions aren't free, treatment is the most fiscally sensible option.

It's really quite insane just how vindictive your expression of transphobia is? You don't understand it so you'd rather we be cast out of society. Are you really that terrified of us?

Heck, you don't even seem to be able to reply to me directly.

Mord is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:03 AM   #62
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 11, 2013 at 07:56 AM.
  0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:06 AM   #63
Muscle Master
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mord View Post
Institutions aren't free, treatment is the most fiscally sensible option.

It's really quite insane just how vindictive your expression of transphobia is? You don't understand it so you'd rather we be cast out of society. Are you really that terrified of us?

Heck, you don't even seem to be able to reply to me directly.

I don't have a phobia.. I'm not terrified of you guys at all, I'm going to be straight and say I'm scared for ya'll WE as in society ain't ****! probably don't have to tell you this.. Most of society look at you guys in disgust!

America is just barely getting over the fact that we have to accept gays... you guys have a very long road ahead of you. from what I read you guys are barely even employed cause of the stereotype which all this relates to my misunderstanding of going through all of this, being blacklisted from society, civil rights, equal employment, etc. because Victoria wants to be Victor

Are you really happy now??
__________________
Apple Macbook Pro Retina '13 (Late 2012)
OS X Mountain Lion / Intel Core i5-3210M @ 3.1GHz / 8GB DDR3 1600MHz / Retina Display @ 2560x1600 / 128GB Solid State Drive | Slate Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Muscle Master is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:10 AM   #64
Moyank24
macrumors 68040
 
Moyank24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: in a New York State of mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
Big difference paying for an obese person to become healthy than to pay for a damn sex change because James can't seem to live with a penis so he wants to become Jessica or die trying

If that's the logic... I rather pay for them to be institutionalized
You are right (about one thing) - there is a big difference.

Pity you can't understand what that difference is.
Moyank24 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:13 AM   #65
Blue Velvet
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
This thread is full of people who havenít the slightest clue what they are talking about, itís like watching chimps struggling with calculus. Many of you, proud of your ignorance, but deeply fearful and projecting your castration anxieties onto others, donít even know how pitiful and laughable you sound, like something out of the 17th centuryÖ which is why Iím not wasting my time dealing with such peasants.

The smartest thing anyone has said here is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekev View Post
I don't understand the topic, so I don't presume to know how it should be handled.
Furthermore, I suspect that there would be general agreement that trans-people arenít the most powerful people out there, subject to discrimination on so many levels, let alone often being the victims of physical violence and murder, so really what this thread is essentially about is mockery and bullying.

Conservatives: always punching downwards, while endlessly fellating those above them in the perceived social order. Never forget this.
Blue Velvet is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:17 AM   #66
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
I don't have a phobia.. I'm not terrified of you guys at all, I'm going to be straight and say I'm scared for ya'll WE as in society ain't ****! probably don't have to tell you this.. Most of society look at you guys in disgust!

America is just barely getting over the fact that we have to accept gays... you guys have a very long road ahead of you. from what I read you guys are barely even employed cause of the stereotype which all this relates to my misunderstanding of going through all of this, being blacklisted from society, civil rights, equal employment, etc. because Victoria wants to be Victor

Are you really happy now??
You think America accepts gays?

Funnily enough, my company (large corporation) has had at least 2 transgendered people that I know of, possibly many more. Both are in relatively high paying careers (either at 6 figures or with potential to be 6 figures in the future). I wouldn't consider them barely employed and the company even did a diversity feature on one of them. And if you failed to even skim the article, San Fran is paying for its EMPLOYEES, again, not barely employed. It just isn't ok to discriminate no matter what and yes a company can be sued for doing so.

And people are scared because they don't understand. I think if we had a society that didn't instill fear into their children based on sexuality, color of their skin, ethnicity, and yes even gender, we'd be a better place.

Last edited by leenak; Nov 12, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:37 AM   #67
Muscle Master
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Quote:
Originally Posted by leenak View Post
You think America accepts gays?

Funnily enough, my company (large corporation) has had at least 2 transgendered people that I know of, possibly many more. Both are in relatively high paying careers (either at 6 figures or with potential to be 6 figures in the future). I wouldn't consider them barely employed and the company even did a diversity feature on one of them. And if you failed to even skim the article, San Fran is paying for its EMPLOYEES, again, not barely employed. It just isn't ok to discriminate no matter what and yes a company can be sued for doing so.

And people are scared because they don't understand. I think if we had a society that didn't instill fear into their children based on sexuality, color of their skin, ethnicity, and yes even gender, we'd be a better place.

That's a whole other subject, considering majority believes in God! including me although I'm an open minded person

at the same time, I wouldn't install fear into my kids about being gay or transgender but why would "I" want them to become gay or transgender

Now if they wanted too... that's entirely different
__________________
Apple Macbook Pro Retina '13 (Late 2012)
OS X Mountain Lion / Intel Core i5-3210M @ 3.1GHz / 8GB DDR3 1600MHz / Retina Display @ 2560x1600 / 128GB Solid State Drive | Slate Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Muscle Master is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:41 AM   #68
Anuba
macrumors 68040
 
Anuba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Velvet View Post
This thread is full of people who haven’t the slightest clue what they are talking about, it’s like watching chimps struggling with calculus. Many of you, proud of your ignorance, but deeply fearful and projecting your castration anxieties onto others, don’t even know how pitiful and laughable you sound, like something out of the 17th century… which is why I’m not wasting my time dealing with such peasants.
To be fair, just like most of us can't put ourselves in a transgender person's shoes and fully comprehend their plight, many of us will never know what it's like to be unintelligent. Imagine trying your damnedest to grasp the logic and reason behind people's arguments, but as soon as you open your mouth, you're dismissed as a chimp, cretin, peasant, neanderthal, mental midget or utter dolt, and then the intellectuals humiliate you further by dancing a little rhetorical victory dance to entertain their fellow wordsmiths. Dumb is the new black.

Humans, punching downwards since the dawn of time.
Anuba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:44 AM   #69
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
That's a whole other subject, considering majority believes in God! including me although I'm an open minded person

at the same time, I wouldn't install fear into my kids about being gay or transgender but why would "I" want them to become gay or transgender

Now if they wanted too... that's entirely different
There are plenty of people who believe in God, including a rabbinical association that says those of the LBGT community are welcome:
http://www.jewishpresstampa.com/news...cally_Speaking

Anyway, I think as a parent, you would want your children to be whatever feels right for them to be. Being gay or transgendered or fat or dark skinned or even a woman is not exactly easy in society, but if they are gay, transgendered, fat, dark skinned or a woman, then I think you should accept them just the same even if life may not be easy as being a skinny white straight male.

And it isn't about want, it is about what they are. Transgendered and gay tendencies generally show up in early childood. This kind of surprised me when I talked to a young teenager who said she was gay. I somehow never thought that it showed up that early but it seems to. I then took a class on human development where we did touch on transgendered issues and those too show up at a very young age.
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:58 AM   #70
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
I think that part of my reluctance stems from the fact that what is being operated on is completely healthy and functional. Non-elective medical procedures (as far as I know) seek to remove, repair or replace diseased, damaged or non-functioning body parts. So there is something of a leap for the taxpayer to bear the cost of replacing something that isn't broken to begin with.

My wife has lived with depression for most of her life. She takes medications and attends counseling, and much of these costs are paid for by our health insurance. But these medications and treatments are put toward the body part that isn't functioning "normally", her brain.

Isn't it possible that if someone can't accept their own perfectly-functioning body, that problem exists in their mind/brain and that is organ that requires medical attention?

I have not studied this subject. I have no knowledge of the history of it. If it has been established scientifically that the only solution is to operate and physically change one's sex, then I can accept it being a non-elective medical procedure. But I have to admit that removing healthy, functioning tissue normally resides in the realm of elective/cosmetic surgery. And I am left to wonder whether other treatments are being overlooked.
citizenzen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:02 AM   #71
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
What about reconstructive surgery after accident or masectomy? The people are fine physiologically but that is often covered under insurance. Also, some skin removal after extensive weight loss is covered (insurance companies are more likely to cover it if the person had weight loss surgery than not).
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:03 AM   #72
tshrimp
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
I know the OP assumed that most would just agree with him as who in the world would support and elective surgery that someone else has to pay for. I read your post and thought the same. Finally a topic that should get 100% support. Who in the world wants to pay for someone else to get something that is elective. Also it CA is in a financial mess due to this type of thinking.

Even if you are for this type of thing and even for the tax payers to pay the bill. Where do we stop?

Do we pay for bald people to have hair implants?
Do we pay for short people to have bone lengthening surgery?

Where do we stop? At some point we must stop spending money. And those who do not agree on moral grounds have no say where there money goes as well.

I was shocked that this got any support at all, but have realized that I should never be surprised this day and age we live in.
tshrimp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:06 AM   #73
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 11, 2013 at 07:55 AM.
  0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:07 AM   #74
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by leenak View Post
What about reconstructive surgery after accident or masectomy? The people are fine physiologically but that is often covered under insurance. Also, some skin removal after extensive weight loss is covered (insurance companies are more likely to cover it if the person had weight loss surgery than not).
In these cases there was an initial cause of damage, disease or debilitation directly connected to the repair.
citizenzen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:10 AM   #75
leenak
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
In these cases there was an initial cause of damage, disease or debilitation directly connected to the repair.
And from what I understand, a transgendered person was 'born' into a sex that doesn't match their gender. They are trying to correct that or at least that is how I understand it. Being a sex that doesn't match their gender can cause mental issues and there have been proven positive outcomes in mental health through the surgery.
leenak is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple, Google Shuttles to Pay to Use Public Bus Stops in San Francisco MacRumors Politics, Religion, Social Issues 146 Jan 26, 2014 10:43 AM
Duke University raising student fees to pay for sex changes ugahairydawgs Politics, Religion, Social Issues 122 May 12, 2013 12:54 PM
Downtown San Fran Verizon NO line rotobadger iPhone 9 Sep 21, 2012 07:22 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:26 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC