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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:25 AM   #126
k995
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Originally Posted by FFR View Post
+1
Now we know how samsung's $2.7 billion ad budget gets spent[COLOR="#808080"]
Thats real paranoia.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:29 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Then why would HTC settle? Also, if that were the case, they'd have settled with Samsung. Apple is having less success outside the US, but there is a very good chance that a significant judgment against Samsung will stand. Plus, Apple did have some success against HTC at the ITC. On top of that, Google has had very limited success against Apple in its countersuits.

----------



Unfortunately for Samsung, the EU is investigating them for improperly using their standards-essential LTE patents to try to drive out competition. If they play hardball, the EU is likely to land a crippling blow to Samsung, forcing a harsh settlement upon them (similar to what the US did to Microsoft in the late 1990s) and sending their share price into a spinning nose dive from which they may never recover.

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Which country has an unbridled capitalist system?

Anyway, in recent years, according to Consumer Reports surveys, reliability of all cars has improved considerably. However, European makes generally fared the worst, with American cars in the middle, and Japanese cars (particularly Honda) generally the most reliable. It was less a function of where the cars were made (e.g. Honda makes more cars in the US than Japan) as it was the company assembling the car.
How much of those Hondas is actually made in the US? I heard one time that Toyota trucks were completely built into two halves in Japan, shipped to US, then those two halves were stuck together in the US, and they claimed it was "made in the US". It had something to do with US trade laws that let Japanese car makers use the label "made in US," when in fact it wasn't really.

I don't pretend to be a car expert, so I'm just putting the question out there.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:32 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by theluggage View Post
Not sure there is a huge lack of innovation - this year we've had retina displays in tablets and notebooks, all-solid-state 'high-end' laptops, and the MacBook Airs are still setting the standard for 'ultrabooks'.
It feels more like evolution than innovation so I agree that they need to step up the innovation if they want to stay ahead. All these suing each other just gives a bad feeling.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:33 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Vitrum View Post
Hmm regarding that comment about "this guarantees 10 more years of android" lol so you really thinked at some point that android was dying ?
This was Steve Jobs dream, not mine. I don't think Steve would have made a deal with Android no matter what. All your doing is giving a Android OEM more power to sale more Android phones. The goal was to take out Android, not reinvent them.
What happens if Samsung cuts a deal with Samsung for $30 per phone. Apple makes over $400 profit on each iPhone sold. Look at the deal Microsoft cut with HTC and then look at Microsoft's phone market share. Apple is headed right down the same road.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:36 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by ConCat View Post
Your posts are the only ones that I find annoying. Condescendingness and mock-concern abound. I really shouldn't get into this argument, but I really can't stand people who talk like you do. You're not sorry for anything, you're not concerned with anyone, and you're certainly not the "good citizen" you seem to think of yourself as. You would do us all a favor if you'd just admit fault and be done with it. Your posts would suddenly be tolerable.
That was a good thought that you then ignored:

Not sure why the person being attacked was more annoying to you.

He is a "good citizen" in this community, he donates to Macrumors. He is supporting the site. This is something the attacker, you and I cannot say that we do.

He did admit fault before your post.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:39 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
Wow, this makes me very pleased. Let this be the first of many such settlements, and let's all MOVE ON!
That depends. if Apple can wring every last cent out of competitors by settling, then that is the proper course of action. Conversely, if it more profitable to sue, then that is the preferred course of action.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:40 AM   #132
HMI
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Originally Posted by swy05 View Post
All I ever see from your posts is your undying hatred of Samsung. Are you a majority shareholder of Apple? Are you the owner?

You hate Samsung so much, here's an idea. Throw away all of your Apple products. They are basically Samsung products with an Apple sticker slapped on them. Until you do so, you can keep on calling yourself a hypocrite.

Apple tried to come to terms but Samsung didn't want to hear it? You know why? Because the terms Apple was requiring was beyond ridiculous and would have no benefit to Samsung at all.

Did Samsung set your house on fire?
Throwing away all his Apple products might be a bit harsh.
Maybe recycling them would be better.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:45 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by k995 View Post
As an engineer you clearly dont have a clue, the screen the UI most of the hardware it was all been done before or released at he same time.

Apple released the best product in a moving market period.



Yes bounce effects really saved my life .




You mean as in tolkin writing fantasy and then everyone else also writing it? Yes tolkien should have sued any fantasy writer after him.

I can show you products simular then iphone hardware/software, with your logic apple could have never released the iphone in the form we know.

YOU like apple and thats clouding your judgment.
Did you even look at the document? It's the corporate equivalent of standing over the body with a smoking gun and red hands screaming "thank God I killed the *******!"

Samsung looked at every little bit of the iPhone, looked at their phone, examined all the little ways in which the iPhone experience was better, and implemented all of those in their product.

To some extent you can be inspired by the competition. If you find yourself compiling 132-page dossiers in minute detail, you've passed well beyond that point and in to purposeful copying.

I don't know every single patent Apple has on each UI feature, but morally they have been wrong and deserve justice.

As for being just a collection of parts - hello! Everything is a collection of parts! Actually, being an engineer is appreciating the unique and complex way they're arranged to create something better. After all, the pyramids are just lumps of rock.

Invention isn't all about fundamental sub-atomic physics. Engineering and invention is all about creativity and design to use those parts to solve the same problem in a much better way - like a new way to design earthquake-proof buildings from the same bricks, or a faster processing chip from the same transistors.

Engineers understand this. Steve Jobs understood this: "“In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains of the sofa. But to me, nothing could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the fundamental soul of a human-made creation that ends up expressing itself in successive outer layers of the product or service.”

Design isn't just about making things pretty - you can't patent a painting of a certain type of subject painted in a particular style. The product of all of that engineering is design. That's the word for it.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:46 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croooow View Post
I have not been "wowed" by Apple like I was when Steve Jobs showed us that first iPhone in 2007.
And before the iphone, when had you last been "wowed"?
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:47 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
Throwing away all his Apple products might be a bit harsh.
Maybe recycling them would be better.
I can never find any Apple products in the recycle bins in my neighborhood.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:49 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Florian Mueller is paid by Microsoft and Oracle, you can't take any of his FUD seriously.


And regarding the settlement, good news, going thermonuclear is not the best thing to do for any company
I don't know if he is paid by anyone but his site is the most comprehensive that I can find regarding all the patent war going on in the mobile arena. If nothing else his collection of all the court case summary around the world is more than any news organization has up to this point. His opinion may or may not be bias but it clearly is better than any opinion I heard so far. BTW he pointed out a lot of Apple's problem in the Samsung trial that Samsung raised now in the post trial motion, so I am a fan of his analysis.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:50 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
And before the iphone, when had you last been "wowed"?
By Apple? Probably never. At least not to the level I was during the Macworld San Francisco 2007 Keynote. And again, that does not mean I have not been impressed by Apple. I use their products everyday. I work with multiple Windows machines at work and choose to have a Mac for my personal computer and an iPhone as my personal phone. I am a fan. I am talking about being "wowed" by a piece of technology.
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Last edited by croooow; Nov 11, 2012 at 10:00 AM.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:55 AM   #138
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"HTC is pleased to have resolved its dispute with Apple, so HTC can focus on innovation instead of litigation," said Peter Chou, CEO of HTC.
It is interesting that companies involved in patent disputes with Apple always pulls the "innovation"-card. It's like their RnD departments is filled with lawyers which ALSO does their research.. They can't do both!
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:58 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by dethmaShine View Post
I could write a book.
Do it! These sort of on-topic posts are the main reason why MacRumors Forums even exist!
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:00 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by FFR View Post
Not until the European Union is finished with thier investigation.
You're right. At least if they ever decided something. In the meantime, life goes on.

The problem is that the European Commission investigating Samsung for antitrust has been dragging their feet for ten months while trials continued and outcomes have been decided.

There's already been one major EU SEP case that has finished, with the court deciding that Samsung couldn't use an injunction because it wasn't involved in good faith negotiations, but then also deciding that Apple owed royalties.

Now there are more EU SEP cases, with Apple arguing they should wait for the Commission's results, and Samsung pointing out hearsay that such a result could take years... and might even sidestep the issue altogether.

Of course, there's also the EU decision I quoted, which allowed the Google - Moto merger.

So right now, for all intents and purposes, the rule that's being practiced worldwide is that injunctions are allowed if the FRAND patentee has tried good faith negotiations and the licensee has not.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:12 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
My guess is that there are one of three possibilities: 1) Apple knows that they can't eliminate Android altogether and is shifting to a Microsoft-like strategy of collecting royalties, 2) Apple takes an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" strategy and figures that higher HTC sales will hurt Samsung more than Apple, or 3) some combination of 1 and 2.

Maybe. The speculation in the beginning was that Apple was going to pick off the easy targets like HTC before going after Google for the kill.

In the meantime, Android has grown to the point that it dwarfs iOS. At the rate things are going, Apple will be reduced to single digit market share in smartphones.

So maybe the initial thermonuclear strategy is unraveling. Apple just doesn't have the ammunition. It has lost repeatedly all over the world in its quest to trip up any competitor who dares to use Android (with a few notable exceptions) and has suffered heavy PR blows.

Maybe Tim is finally starting to understand that Apple's General Counsel and Steve cooked up a defective strategy.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConCat View Post
I really shouldn't get into this argument, but I really can't stand people who talk like you do.
Here's an idea:

Put him on "ignore' and spare the rest of us your righteous indignation.

Thank you.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:12 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
With Samsung sucking up all the air in the Android space, this is a good move for HTC. Android fans love to talk about "choice," then they all buy Samsungs.
Only because the lack of expandable memory on all current HTC phones make them less of an option, and Samsung more attractive.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:12 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by ConCat View Post
Your posts are the only ones that I find annoying. Condescendingness and mock-concern abound. I really shouldn't get into this argument, but I really can't stand people who talk like you do. You're not sorry for anything, you're not concerned with anyone, and you're certainly not the "good citizen" you seem to think of yourself as. You would do us all a favor if you'd just admit fault and be done with it. Your posts would suddenly be tolerable.

EDIT: I also like how you seem to delete the posts you quote when they provide the most damning evidence to that other guy's argument. You clearly would rather not quote the truth.
1. You're reading tone in my posts that truly isn't meant. I apologize (sincerely) for any offense. I am genuinely not trying to be the individual you claim

2. I did, and you can see my full comments in the replies from the other individual (I forget their name). I did so as they were long and unnecessary, not to deceive. How could I when they're quoted? I just wanted to keep the thread from becoming a TL,DR personal match.

On another note, I am glad the suit was settled. As I wrote in my first comment, I wish Apple would work well with Samsung, and vice versa. It is a shame to see two good companies spur. I wonder what will happen if Apple severs ties with Samsung, as it seems to be doing with Google?

(and hey, it's my 36th bday, be kind! LOL )
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:15 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
Did you even look at the document? It's the corporate equivalent of standing over the body with a smoking gun and red hands screaming "thank God I killed the *******!"
Just like with any other company.

To quote the apple guru Good artists copy great artists steal


Quote:

Samsung looked at every little bit of the iPhone, looked at their phone, examined all the little ways in which the iPhone experience was better, and implemented all of those in their product.
Just like apple did that with every roduct it got its hands on.

Again look at the design software and hardware of the time almost EVERY element apple put into the iphone was used elsewheer before it was shown .


Quote:

I don't know every single patent Apple has on each UI feature, but morally they have been wrong and deserve justice.
Then others should sue apple and win, either you say apple invented and came up with ALL its UI or the are just as guilty as samsung.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:18 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by croooow View Post
By Apple? Probably never. At least not to the level I was during the Macworld San Francisco 2007 Keynote. And again, that does not mean I have not been impressed by Apple. I use their products everyday. I work with multiple Windows machines at work and choose to have a Mac for my personal computer and an iPhone as my personal phone. I am a fan. I am talking about being "wowed" by a piece of technology.
I agree 100%. I am impressed by Apple. Why would I own Apple electronics (aside from my AVR, TV and speakers, etc) ? I love Snow Leopard, and Mountain Lion is growing on me, a big improvement to Lion (and with "TotalSpaces", "Mission Control" isn't as big a worry to me as before). I just miss the focus on desktops and power systems, and am tiring of iOS, Facebook and Twitter integration. I sincerely hope the next Mac Pro does happen, as mine will be three years old (still the current gen) and AppleCare will be up. I usually sell my systems while AppleCare is still good as it allows new buyers to have coverage, check out the system when they receive it which ups its value.

Otherwise, I have been impressed, just not "floored". If the next Mac Pro is something akin to what my friends back west believe it to be, I will be wowed.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:21 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by sazivad View Post
Nice how you let off Friday's stellar results.

I bought 10,000 shares in the morning under $535 and sold them in the afternoon at $553! In one day I made enough to buy another Ferrari!

So what was that you were saying about Apple's stock? I love Aapl!
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:24 AM   #147
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This is good news. Now MacRumors can get back to covering their preferred topics; the other lawsuits and iOS toys.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:25 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by kstswe View Post
It feels more like evolution than innovation so I agree that they need to step up the innovation if they want to stay ahead. All these suing each other just gives a bad feeling.
What exactly is your definition of "innovation"? What exactly are you looking for? What are other tech companies doing that apple should be doing?
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:27 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by tevion5 View Post
I believe you mean "Apple Inc." (formally "Apple Computers")

"Apple Corp." is a record label created by The Beatles :P
lol touché I used to work retail for them as well long ago (before the iPhone and just before the Intel switch), then went to Corp. When there, we'd differentiate the two with "reet" and "corp", but yeah, Inc. for the whole company.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 10:30 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
You know, I'd love to meet this mythical Average Person everyone keeps talking about on here. Must be a pretty important guy, despite the fact he doesn't care about anything tech, can barely tie his own shoes from the sounds of things, yet all these companies try to pander to him every chance they get.
Honestly I could ask any one of my friends, family, co-workers or neighbors if they saw the "apology" Apple posted on their UK website and all I would get are blank stares. To think that anyone outside of tech junkies/trolls cares about this is laughable.
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