Apple Hiring for Future Retail Stores in Brazil and Turkey

[Throw Out]

Nevermind,

[MN7119]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

No, it's not (although per capita GDP is growing fast in the country). However, the upper middle class and richer classes have a lot of money and ARE willing to spend whatever it takes to have an Apple device.

In any case, I must agree with Akzel on one point: it's not ONLY about taxes; it's also about higher logistical costs AND the magic component of WILLINGNESS to pay (also known as "welfare" in Economics).

Just like places such as Switzerland, richer Brazilians still lack the collective sensitivity or transparent information to demand lower prices when compared to other international markets.

This happens mostly because the complex taxation system allows companies to mask their profit margins behind the excuse that fiscality is the sole responsible for those ridiculous prices...

This happens a lot in the automotive market in Brazil as well (where even locally-produced cars are sold in neighboring countries for MUCH lower prices even when all taxes are taken out of MRSPs).

----------



You mean like the US?

Sorry but being from Brazil and living in the US for over 10 years it still drives me crazy that Brazilians HAVE to have whatever is sold in the US. If Americans are buying, that must be cool so we have to have it. Brazilians do not buy iPhones because they are great phones. They buy because they like to show off. I just came back from a business trip to Brazil and could not believe how many people I saw sitting in fancy restaurants with an iPad open sitting on the table just to show others they had it. Same in business meetings when people bring an iPad, open them and leave them on the table again just to show off. I agree that Sao Paulo should have an Apple Store but unfortunately that won’t bring prices down. It will probably be located at Iguatemi or JK Malls where only millionaires can afford and again they will buy devices to show off. Sad!!!!!

[HMI]

I'm waiting for the report that US companies just created thousands of more jobs (even if they aren't in our country and don't cover basic financial needs).

[emir]

Fınally an Apple Store in Turkey!!! God i've been waiting for this store to open for over 6 years. I don't want to miss the store's grand opening but to my luck, i'll be in San Francisco between january-June.

anyone know how long it takes apple to open stores after job listings? any chance it won't open in the first 2 Qs of 2013? Or any chance of 2012? Or better yet, any chance of it opening after June 2013?

I can't believe how unlucky i am. I am going to the United States for the first time, and in those dates, Mark Knopfler is coming to play in Istanbul, roger Waters is probably coming to play in istanbul (2 of my favorite musicians i would do anything to see) and now, the store i've been waiting for years is opening!

God.

Any answer is greatly appriciated, thanks

[1member1]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

1/1000th of what exactly? Guns?

You don't seem to come from the US anyway...why bother?[COLOR="#808080"]

Your country pride only makes it worse. Apple is american country. Guns huh ;ooo

[WardC]

Just in time for Thanksgiving: Apple selling Turkeys in their Retail Stores (isn't this what the article was about, the Turkey Store Manager?)

[MN7119]

Originally Posted by WardC

Just in time for Thanksgiving: Apple selling Turkeys in their Retail Stores (isn't this what the article was about, the Turkey Store Manager?)

iTurkey????

[JRSAHLBERG]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

Because Brazil is the world's 4th largest IT market, with a gigantic middle/rich class willing to pay premium prices for Apple devices, even with all the tax imposition that exists there. In fact, a local retail Apple Store makes more than sense there, since local production has already started to lower the historically-high prices in the country

So the equation fits: local production + local logistics + local retail = lower prices and much higher sales numbers.

Is that reason enough for you?

I paid U$ 795 for an 64gb wifi only iPad made in Brazil, considering the sale tax in US, it is almost the same price they are selling there.

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by Throw Out

Brazil is still a very poor country, shall we look at the numbers?

Germany x Brazil

Brazilian Population: 199,321,413
German Population: 81,305,856

GDP in Brazil: $2.324 trillion (US Dollar)
GDP in Germany: $3.139 trillion (US Dollar)

And who is comparing Brazil to Germany or saying that Brazil is much richer than these countries? OF COURSE there is a lot of poverty, just like there is a lot of poverty in places like the US, Greece, Italy, France and Belgium (have you been to some banlieues in France, to Wallonia in Belgium or shanty hells like New Orleans or Detroit in the US?).

My point is that Brazil is ALREADY the 4th largest IT market, just like it is the 4th largest car market in the world. Does that mean everyone in the middle of the State of Amapá is able to buy an iPhone? Of course not.

But to say that Brazil doesn't deserve an Apple Store is to disregard even Apple Management's own assessments that the country is a major demand target.

So stop babbling nonsense or performing armchair analyses. I am Brazilian and I have also lived for many years outside the country for professional reasons - I know both the good, the bad and the ugly in my home country and don't need to spit out old "we are a developing country" stereotypes anymore.

I'm Brazilian,

No doubt, Brazil is a growing country...
But Middle Class people do not have money to afford apple products, that's a myth.

The only way Middle Class will afford apple products is threw money loans, financed by European and American banks.

So far that works, we see a lot of Brazilians in New Cars etc.
On a long term? We all know how Brazil will pay out its debts

As a Brazilian you should know better, then, instead of replicating mongrel dog complexes (i.e., everything Brazilian is bad, everything foreign is good). The middle class ALREADY has money to spare in electronic devices by the boatload - are Apple devices expensive? Sure. That doesn't mean there aren't at least 50 million people easily able to buy them in Brazil.

Originally Posted by MN7119

Sorry but being from Brazil and living in the US for over 10 years it still drives me crazy that Brazilians HAVE to have whatever is sold in the US. If Americans are buying, that must be cool so we have to have it. Brazilians do not buy iPhones because they are great phones. They buy because they like to show off. I just came back from a business trip to Brazil and could not believe how many people I saw sitting in fancy restaurants with an iPad open sitting on the table just to show others they had it. Same in business meetings when people bring an iPad, open them and leave them on the table again just to show off. I agree that Sao Paulo should have an Apple Store but unfortunately that won’t bring prices down. It will probably be located at Iguatemi or JK Malls where only millionaires can afford and again they will buy devices to show off. Sad!!!!!

I am not a millionaire and have been several times to the shopping malls named above. Surely they are not for the poor strata of the society, but WHICH malls containing Apple Stores are, in the world?

Apple has ALWAYS targeted retail stores in upscale areas of any given country - do you see any Apple Store in Eastern D.C. neighborhoods? Never.

Same for China, which already has a bunch of official stores even though MOST of the Chinese don't even earn a buck per day.

An Apple Store in the best areas of SP, RJ, PR or RS is a logical and foregone conclusion already - just deal with it. As for Brazilians "showing off", this is normal behavior for a country which still deals with Apple devices as luxury items - once their prices reach normal, mainstream levels, they are gonna be a commodity just like any other appliance...and if they DO NOT reach lower prices once taxation goes down, it's simply because of a very basic principle of supply and demand: prices are set on the basis of how much people are willing to pay on average.

Go buy any clothing item in Switzerland, JUST to see exactly the SAME item being sold for half the price across the German border, even if production costs do not change - alas, people are still willing to pay more in CH.

----------

Originally Posted by JRSAHLBERG

I paid U$ 795 for an 64gb wifi only iPad made in Brazil, considering the sale tax in US, it is almost the same price they are selling there.

This sounds like good news to me, then - prices are decreasing even faster than I'd thought in Brazil. But are you talking about the iPad 3 or what?

[dakwar]

I wonder what the wages would be in comparison to the US apple stores.

[emir]

So how long does it take to open an Apple store from this phase on? I'm trying to anticipate when Turkish store will open. So excited.

Also i am guessing with these stores, online apple stores, itunes music and video stores will also launch at Brazil and Turkey.

finally Apple!


this means for me: Apple Care, lower prices, customer support at last, iTunes and online stores.

Can this also mean we will get products earlier when they launch? Do they give priority to countries with stores? I mean it's been months since iPhone 5 launched, it even launched in India but still not in Turkey. Do countries with store have priorities?

[MN7119]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

And who is comparing Brazil to Germany or saying that Brazil is much richer than these countries? OF COURSE there is a lot of poverty, just like there is a lot of poverty in places like the US, Greece, Italy, France and Belgium (have you been to some banlieues in France, to Wallonia in Belgium or shanty hells like New Orleans or Detroit in the US?).

My point is that Brazil is ALREADY the 4th largest IT market, just like it is the 4th largest car market in the world. Does that mean everyone in the middle of the State of Amapá is able to buy an iPhone? Of course not.

But to say that Brazil doesn't deserve an Apple Store is to disregard even Apple Management's own assessments that the country is a major demand target.

So stop babbling nonsense or performing armchair analyses. I am Brazilian and I have also lived for many years outside the country for professional reasons - I know both the good, the bad and the ugly in my home country and don't need to spit out old "we are a developing country" stereotypes anymore.



As a Brazilian you should know better, then, instead of replicating mongrel dog complexes (i.e., everything Brazilian is bad, everything foreign is good). The middle class ALREADY has money to spare in electronic devices by the boatload - are Apple devices expensive? Sure. That doesn't mean there aren't at least 50 million people easily able to buy them in Brazil.



I am not a millionaire and have been several times to the shopping malls named above. Surely they are not for the poor strata of the society, but WHICH malls containing Apple Stores are, in the world?

Apple has ALWAYS targeted retail stores in upscale areas of any given country - do you see any Apple Store in Eastern D.C. neighborhoods? Never.

Same for China, which already has a bunch of official stores even though MOST of the Chinese don't even earn a buck per day.

An Apple Store in the best areas of SP, RJ, PR or RS is a logical and foregone conclusion already - just deal with it. As for Brazilians "showing off", this is normal behavior for a country which still deals with Apple devices as luxury items - once their prices reach normal, mainstream levels, they are gonna be a commodity just like any other appliance...and if they DO NOT reach lower prices once taxation goes down, it's simply because of a very basic principle of supply and demand: prices are set on the basis of how much people are willing to pay on average.

Go buy any clothing item in Switzerland, JUST to see exactly the SAME item being sold for half the price across the German border, even if production costs do not change - alas, people are still willing to pay more in CH.

----------



This sounds like good news to me, then - prices are decreasing even faster than I'd thought in Brazil. But are you talking about the iPad 3 or what?

The culture of show off will never end in Brazil. Brazilians buy anything that they see Americans using and do not even research to know if that is good or not. They just HAVE to have it. The Duty Free Shop at arrival in Sao Paulo sells GAP and Banana Republic. Are you kidding me? It is like buying Hering t-shirts in US dollar to showing off here in the US. I am always amazed with the requests from friends and co-workers every time I am traveling to Brazil. I would love to see the day when Crest toothpaste, Centrum vitamins and other basic stuff becomes mainstream in Brazil so people can stop asking for that from the US. Also, people that can afford an iPhone or an iPAd in Brazil also have to afford a bullet proof car and can only show off those gadgets inside malls or fancy restaurants because if they do so on the streets they won’t last more than 1 minute. Again, I would love to see my country change but it will probably not happen in my generation.

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by MN7119

The culture of show off will never end in Brazil. Brazilians buy anything that they see Americans using and do not even research to know if that is good or not. They just HAVE to have it. The Duty Free Shop at arrival in Sao Paulo sells GAP and Banana Republic. Are you kidding me? It is like buying Hering t-shirts in US dollar to showing off here in the US. I am always amazed with the requests from friends and co-workers every time I am traveling to Brazil. I would love to see the day when Crest toothpaste, Centrum vitamins and other basic stuff becomes mainstream in Brazil so people can stop asking for that from the US. Also, people that can afford an iPhone or an iPAd in Brazil also have to afford a bullet proof car and can only show off those gadgets inside malls or fancy restaurants because if they do so on the streets they won’t last more than 1 minute. Again, I would love to see my country change but it will probably not happen in my generation.

A country only changes if its people change it - so you're not off to a good start when you, like many other "mongrel dog" Brazilians, don't consider yourself part of the "people".

In any case, you have answered your question yourself - people only show off what is still not deemed as mainstream. Once Gap shirts are commonplace, no one will care about them and will then move on to "higher" targets.

I actually have a different opinion: in my last visit to my home country, I saw that people are increasingly becoming indifferent to things like smartphones or fashion items - and why? Because they are much more mainstream nowadays.

Likewise for imported cars, some models of which are still regarded as "luxury" in Brazil mainly because of high taxes, whereas they are extremely popular or even cheap in other countries...once every Joe Carioca out there is able to afford a BMW (like in Switzerland or Germany), you won't see Brazilians drooling at them anymore...just so that they can perhaps drool at Bentleys, as people still do in Western Europe.

[jgabriel]

Originally Posted by MN7119

Sorry but being from Brazil and living in the US for over 10 years it still drives me crazy that Brazilians HAVE to have whatever is sold in the US. If Americans are buying, that must be cool so we have to have it. Brazilians do not buy iPhones because they are great phones. They buy because they like to show off. I just came back from a business trip to Brazil and could not believe how many people I saw sitting in fancy restaurants with an iPad open sitting on the table just to show others they had it. Same in business meetings when people bring an iPad, open them and leave them on the table again just to show off. I agree that Sao Paulo should have an Apple Store but unfortunately that won’t bring prices down. It will probably be located at Iguatemi or JK Malls where only millionaires can afford and again they will buy devices to show off. Sad!!!!!

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. If you think people spend their hard earned money on very expensive Apple products (much more expensive then their prices in the US) just to show off, you have a very low, prejudicial and biased opinion on your compatriots. Perhaps, you might think we are not allowed to have premium technological products and should be satisfied with the kind of junk that we used to see around here before apple made a more consistent presence in our market. Nowadays, people all around the world are very much alike in terms of taste. Brazilians buy Apple's products despite their high prices not because they want whatever is selling in the US and want to show off, but because they have good taste and want the best product, much like italians, frenchs and americans do. I live here and I also see people all around in schools, universities, malls with their iPads and iPhones and I think it is just awesome! Perhaps, you think people should hide their products - please, don't bring your iPad, otherwise people will just think you are showing off, you are such a snob! Let me tell you why people don't do that: they just don't think people will interpret them the same way you are, because that is just a prejudicial way to think about it. To assume people are pulling their iPads from their back packs in a caffe just to show off says more about you than it says about them. Perhaps you have spent too much time in the US and think people in brazil don't have the right to own premium products because it somehow contradicts some subverted logic you have that just because you don't make as much money, you can't have this or that. They pay for those products more than americans and people from other countries do, that is a certain fact, all you have to do is visit apple.com/br and see for yourself. And if despite that we still buy those products, is because we can and earned that right.

[HMI]

Originally Posted by 1member1

Your country pride only makes it worse. Apple is american country. Guns huh ;ooo

Americans are accused of many things, but national pride isn't usually one of them!

> -1 < (downvoted)

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by jgabriel

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. If you think people spend their hard earned money on very expensive Apple products (much more expensive then their prices in the US) just to show off, you have a very low, prejudicial and biased opinion on your compatriots. Perhaps, you might think we are not allowed to have premium technological products and should be satisfied with the kind of junk that we used to see around here before apple made a more consistent presence in our market. Nowadays, people all around the world are very much alike in terms of taste. Brazilians buy Apple's products despite their high prices not because they want whatever is selling in the US and want to show off, but because they have good taste and want the best product, much like italians, frenchs and americans do. I live here and I also see people all around in schools, universities, malls with their iPads and iPhones and I think it is just awesome! Perhaps, you think people should hide their products - please, don't bring your iPad, otherwise people will just think you are showing off, you are such a snob! Let me tell you why people don't do that: they just don't think people will interpret them the same way you are, because that is just a prejudicial way to think about it. To assume people are pulling their iPads from their back packs in a caffe just to show off says more about you than it says about them. Perhaps you have spent too much time in the US and think people in brazil don't have the right to own premium products because it somehow contradicts some subverted logic you have that just because you don't make as much money, you can't have this or that. They pay for those products more than americans and people from other countries do, that is a certain fact, all you have to do is visit apple.com/br and see for yourself. And if despite that we still buy those products, is because we can and earned that right.

Exactly - the average Brazilian still has a hard time accepting his own success.

[jgabriel]

Originally Posted by MN7119

... Also, people that can afford an iPhone or an iPAd in Brazil also have to afford a bullet proof car and can only show off those gadgets inside malls or fancy restaurants because if they do so on the streets they won’t last more than 1 minute. Again, I would love to see my country change but it will probably not happen in my generation.

I live in Rio de janeiro and it is just not like that. People in the subway listening to music on their iPhones has become common place for a long time now. And I think I don't see people using other Apple devices because it is just not practical. I mean, have you ever tried pulling off your iPad in a crowded subway as it often is here?! I know I don't even try.

[prism]

Originally Posted by WardC

Just in time for Thanksgiving: Apple selling Turkeys in their Retail Stores (isn't this what the article was about, the Turkey Store Manager?)

Lame, sort of joke you get in kindergarden!

[HMI]

Originally Posted by ipedro

Apple's legendary customer service is faltering. They're a victim of their own success, at least here in Toronto.

Last night my iPhone5's speaker stopped working and Apple Care over the phone determined it was hardware failure. I tried to make a Genius appointment and at first I thought I did something wrong, because the first available time slot was 5PM... Next Friday!

The Eaton Centre which is Apple's only downtown store is just a small store in a mall, even if it's Toronto's most popular mall. They badly need a downtown flagship store.

I've been with Apple for a decade, way before they were mainstream. Back then, if I had a problem, I got immediate service and really the legendary service that Apple is known for is what kept me around all this time. Problem with my PowerBook? They fixed it -- even out of warranty. Dead battery on my original generation iPod? Replaced, no questions asked.

Today: Problem with my iPhone 5 through no fault of my own? No Genius slots in the Apple store, and if I want an iPhone 5 replacement delivered through the mail, I have to pay $30. Really Apple? Your hardware fails and my only reasonable option to get it replaced quickly is to pay you? I'm disappointed. Good thing John Browett got canned but this seems like a larger problem.

I think they are trying to enjoy their recent success while trying to operate as they always have. Before iPhones they were probably happy living with their 5% pc market share, because they had less competition at their price points, healthy profit margins, great control over product development/release cycles, and could function more as a large-sized startup company, but now that they are mostly focused on iPhones and iPads, they have completely different market demands, greater competition at similar price points, relatively lower profit margins, and faster development/release cycles. They seem more controlled by market demands than they would probably like to be. They seem to want the convenience of using Startup-minded innovation and focus, while feeling the need to expand into a larger corporate-minded company that will support ongoing growth and success. They are probably deciding carefully how best to manage this needed growth, not just throwing money at a problem.

Tim Cook and his team are smart people, and I'm sure they will monitor customer satisfaction as they continue to expand.

The main difference is that 5% of customers is a lot more people now than it was in 2007.

That's my impression, anyway.

[Siq®]

I really don't understand the way some Brazilians here think, so I'll share my experience.

- I am a middle class Brazilian student and I've always studied in middle class schools (middle class goes to private schools) where nobody was rich (ok, maybe one or two) and the majority of my class had iDevices in general. I've noticed that since the 6th grade, mostly because my parents came from nothing, their families were really poor, so I was taught not to show off. I never had expensive stuff and I actually believed I was kinda poor when I was a child. Now that I am in university I am even more conscious of my environment.
As someone pointed out, it is VERY common to see people listening to their iPhones/Galaxy S3 in the subway. Also, I study in a public university (they are considered to be the best here) and, for my surprise, lots of classmates also have iDevices.
As a middle class person, I can surely say I can afford buying any iDevice I want. ( I just don't want it. I'm not that much of an Apple fan)

- The second topic I wanted to talk about is the local production of iPads/iPhones. Yes, they are produced here at a lower price due to governmental help (less taxes) but yes, Apple sells them at the regular brazilian price.

btw: I love my city much more than I love my country. ( it sounds weird, I know)

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by Siq®

I really don't understand the way some Brazilians here think, so I'll share my experience.

- I am a middle class Brazilian student and I've always studied in middle class schools (middle class goes to private schools) where nobody was rich (ok, maybe one or two) and the majority of my class had iDevices in general. I've noticed that since the 6th grade, mostly because my parents came from nothing, their families were really poor, so I was taught not to show off. I never had expensive stuff and I actually believed I was kinda poor when I was a child. Now that I am in university I am even more conscious of my environment.
As someone pointed out, it is VERY common to see people listening to their iPhones/Galaxy S3 in the subway. Also, I study in a public university (they are considered to be the best here) and, for my surprise, lots of classmates also have iDevices.
As a middle class person, I can surely say I can afford buying any iDevice I want. ( I just don't want it. I'm not that much of an Apple fan)

- The second topic I wanted to talk about is the local production of iPads/iPhones. Yes, they are produced here at a lower price due to governmental help (less taxes) but yes, Apple sells them at the regular brazilian price.

btw: I love my city much more than I love my country. ( it sounds weird, I know)

Thanks for sharing your side of the story, and for NOT being just another boot-licking, mongrel dog Brazilian. It's about time to start believing in our country, in collectively overcoming its difficulties and in assuming, without guilty, that you're all entitled to the best if you study and work hard enough.

And let's be honest: to think that Brazil is a "poor" country or that Brazilians can't have the latest iDevices is to show an astounding level of ignorance that is truly irritating.

[jgabriel]

Originally Posted by HMI

I think they are trying to enjoy their recent success while trying to operate as they always have. Before iPhones they were probably happy living with their 5% pc market share, because they had less competition at their price points, healthy profit margins, great control over product development/release cycles, and could function more as a large-sized startup company, but now that they are mostly focused on iPhones and iPads, they have completely different market demands, greater competition at similar price points, relatively lower profit margins, and faster development/release cycles. They seem more controlled by market demands than they would probably like to be. They seem to want the convenience of using Startup-minded innovation and focus, while feeling the need to expand into a larger corporate-minded company that will support ongoing growth and success. They are probably deciding carefully how best to manage this needed growth, not just throwing money at a problem.

Tim Cook and his team are smart people, and I'm sure they will monitor customer satisfaction as they continue to expand.

The main difference is that 5% of customers is a lot more people now than it was in 2007.

That's my impression, anyway.

I totally agree! The lately claims from analysts that Apple has past its peak and that it can't go anywhere else but downhill is rubbish. They revamped its entire line of products at the same time, what other company is able to do that?! Apple is facing a whole new level of difficulty to meet everyone's demands. The thing is people got used to expect something revolutionary from Apple in every keynote. Come on guys, you know it is just not possible. I can only imagine the difficulties they face every day to deliver everything people tend to expect from Apple and that no other company in the present can do. I just hope they will keep trying to push and raise the bar as high as they possibly can as they have been doing for the last decade.

[alexlage]

I am a Brazilian, live in Rio de Janeiro, and am Apple User since 1989. There is no country with perfect shape, in special these days.
Brazil has several problems, but there is one good thing. It is going to the right direction, slowly but forward.

I work with a team of 8 independent Apple consultants and we see a great space for an official Apple presence to fit in. Also I work with Education projects and NPOs. We have around 280 visits per month, teaching 20/month young talents into social projects and the future looks bright.

So, would like to give you a more details of the potential opportunities Apple will face and, if you want, more knowledge about this incredible country and people.

I have been several times in US and have lots (lots) of friends out there. is my favorite destiny on my all life trips. Respect and love the American vision of community and self entrepreneur support.

Nice Going Apple,
Alexandre Lage

[hamkor04]

Originally Posted by bushido

Greece cant afford apple products right now

(... goes into hiding)

Greece has it's iEconomy at the moment (don't know how many years that takes)



Dude. plz, can you link me this post. I really liked to reply to it )))

----------

Originally Posted by orfeas0

Same in Greece, but apple decided to make a store in Turkey before making one in Greece :S
Too bad they don't seem to care about their customers...

Greece need to sort it's iEonomy and after that iStore

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by orfeas0

Same in Greece, but apple decided to make a store in Turkey before making one in Greece :S
Too bad they don't seem to care about their customers...

Fix your economy first instead of going into further debt to buy apple products.

The Turkish economy is booming it's perfect for an apple store.