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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:40 PM   #51
IJ Reilly
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
I don get why people think being an ******* is a good thing. I would think being able to work well with other executives is a plus.
Really? Seems that Sinofsky was the closest thing Microsoft had to a Steve Jobs, who by the way, was also not a very nice person. I don't get why people think being nice is an expected character trait in corporate leadership, as if people climb to the top of that greasy poll by being nice. In his 20 years with the company Sinosfky accomplished some things running the division that actually keeps Microsoft afloat, no small feat in a company with notoriously dysfunctional management. Looking more deeply into this you will find that Ballmer viewed Sinofsky as threat to his leadership. So again, this is what is often meant by the code words, "not a team player." Ballmer made the challenge go away -- we'll see if that's a good thing for Microsoft or not.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:41 PM   #52
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The sales don't back that up.
Yea i was surprised how much i like windows 8.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by arunim View Post
Expected this.. Windows 8 is a fail for desktop, but very good innovation for tablet.
It's pretty good once you install something like StartIsBack!

http://startisback.com/
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:43 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by The Bulge View Post
At least they don't waste pixels on screen and call it UI.
Depends on your definition of "wasted pixels".
If it provides information that I find useful, it's not wasted.

Again... personal preference.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:43 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by x86isslow View Post
They may value short term profits over long-term health.
Seeing as how Windows has been the leading OS for the better part of two decades, it seems that the Microsoft boardroom likely knows a little something about "long term health."

When the Apple bubbles pops, MS will still be around. And it sure seems to be deflating fast these days.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:44 PM   #56
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I have to say that Microsoft have made a brave move to right direction. I wish Apple will follow and re-desing UI to iOS and OSX. It is about time.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:45 PM   #57
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Yea i was surprised how much i like windows 8.
Same here. Use it for my work laptop and absolutely love it.

A bunch of xenophobia here as anything different than an 11 y/o UI seems to rub people the wrong way.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:46 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Dorje Sylas View Post
Seconded. The only problem I've had is with full screen gaming accidentally hitting the 'return to desktop' hot button in the lower right.... however that's a hold over from Windows 7 and there are some possible advantages to Tiles and not getting bad dumps out of games.

I also have not had any serious problems navigating my way around Windows 8 on a dual screen setup. The hot corners were easy to find a use. If anything the tiles environment could have been extended into a Spaces (I know Linux has the same multi-desktop/app split setup) like system to help tile non-Metro programs.

I really don't (a gut level) understand what's got people so ants in the pants about Windows 8 compared to 7.

They could dial back the Start menu backgrounds. To noisy IMO, but they'll learn and release a service pack or two.
To be honest, my main PC would probably be running Windows 8 now if an important program I use was compatible. But that has more to do with it only being 25 rather than it being better than 7.

Metro isn't too bad if you don't use too many apps at the same time and looks nicer than the standard Windows desktop, but it is just a pain if you are opening and closing apps on a regular basis. Of course you can make it more usable by getting a start menu for it, but then you might as well stick with 7 if you are going to do that (which in desktop mode looks better IMO).

I guess for me, the start menu was one of the few Windows GUI elements that was actually very good and because of that I have always used 3rd party tools or customised the Dock so I get a startmenu on the Mac, since the system7 days.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:49 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
if microsoft really wants to help themselves, the only steve they need to get rid of is ballmer.
^ that
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:50 PM   #60
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They say the desktop PC is dead, But I'm loving my Dell XPS 8500. I bought a licensed copy of Windows 7 professional DVD directly from Microsoft and cleanly installed it. Call me a dinosaur , But the innovation of Bill Gates shines through on Windows 7. Thank you Mr Gates for all you have done. You and Steve Jobs will be remembered for a long time.

Last edited by Alexjones; Nov 13, 2012 at 03:19 PM.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:51 PM   #61
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no wonder 'Mac'rumors has gone downhill lately with posts on the Main page about Microsoft..

Why?

yawn....
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:53 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Alexjones View Post
They say the desktop PC is dead, But I'm loving my Dell XPS 8500 with my licensed copy of Windows 7 professional that i bought directly from Microsoft and cleanly installed it. Call me a dinosaur , But the innovation of Bill Gates shines through on Windows 7. Thank you Mr Gates for all you have done.
Bill had nothing to do with Windows 7. He was long gone by then.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:53 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by saud0488 View Post
When the Apple bubbles pops, MS will still be around. And it sure seems to be deflating fast these days.
*Blink* How is it deflating? Maybe some egotistical over emotional stock weenies feel they got take for a ride, but then again I generally hate what Wall Street deems is "good" or "valuable." Stock price is not an indication of how well a company is doing, at least not in the short term quarter to quarter. To much emotion is in play. It's only an indication of how well "people" think a company is doing.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:54 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Really? Seems that Sinofsky was the closest thing Microsoft had to a Steve Jobs, who by the way, was also not a very nice person. I don't get why people think being nice is an expected character trait in corporate leadership, as if people climb to the top of that greasy poll by being nice. In his 20 years with the company Sinosfky accomplished some things running the division that actually keeps Microsoft afloat, no small feat in a company with notoriously dysfunctional management. Looking more deeply into this you will find that Ballmer viewed Sinofsky as threat to his leadership. So again, this is what is often meant by the code words, "not a team player." Ballmer made the challenge go away -- we'll see if that's a good thing for Microsoft or not.
Takes more than being an ******* to be a Steve Jobs. This guy was not the visionary that Steve was. Just look at Windows 8's metro interface. Microsoft have totally shot themselves in the foot on the desktop to go after the tablet market. Apple have been able to maintain both businesses and play to eachothers strengths while Microsoft has made a tablet interface and just stuck it on their desktops and it is next to useless. I got 32GB of RAM in my desktop but can only run two Metro apps side by side. Why is metro even included on my desktop operating system? Total waste of space.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:55 PM   #65
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Depends on your definition of "wasted pixels".
If it provides information that I find useful, it's not wasted.

Again... personal preference.
Well you solved all problems in the world just now. Everything is a personal preference. I guess Hitler wasn't wrong, it's just a personal preference.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:56 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Jeans89 View Post
I have to say that Microsoft have made a brave move to right direction. I wish Apple will follow and re-desing UI to iOS and OSX. It is about time.
I agree. Especially iOS. It works so well, but they need to do something different.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:59 PM   #67
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Bill had nothing to do with Windows 7. He was long gone by then.
Im talking about Windows in general. You can't have Windows 7 without Windows.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:59 PM   #68
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Well you solved all problems in the world just now. Everything is a personal preference. I guess Hitler wasn't wrong, it's just a personal preference.
Ahh... you're one of "those" types.

*adds to ignore list*
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:01 PM   #69
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Ahh... you're one of "those" types.

*adds to ignore list*
Just a personal preference huh. Happy to oblige.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:05 PM   #70
IJ Reilly
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Originally Posted by Quu View Post
Takes more than being an ******* to be a Steve Jobs. This guy was not the visionary that Steve was. Just look at Windows 8's metro interface. Microsoft have totally shot themselves in the foot on the desktop to go after the tablet market. Apple have been able to maintain both businesses and play to eachothers strengths while Microsoft has made a tablet interface and just stuck it on their desktops and it is next to useless. I got 32GB of RAM in my desktop but can only run two Metro apps side by side. Why is metro even included on my desktop operating system? Total waste of space.
He must be more than a bunch of asterisks, or he would not have risen to the top of Microsoft's most important division. And I did say he was the closest thing Microsoft had to a Steve Jobs, not that he is a Steve Jobs. Microsoft's leadership is a mess but yet Bill Gates sided with his old pal Steve Ballmer in the dismissal of Sinofsky. Does this make you feel more confident about Microsoft's leadership? That's the only question you really need to answer.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:07 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
Apple hires Steven Sinofsky.
Microsoft hires Scott Forstall.

It would be a great thing actually - Sinofsky was one of the few bright executive minds at Microsoft.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:10 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Alexjones View Post
They say the desktop PC is dead, But I'm loving my Dell XPS 8500 with my licensed copy of Windows 7 professional that i bought directly from Microsoft and cleanly installed it. Call me a dinosaur , But the innovation of Bill Gates shines through on Windows 7. Thank you Mr Gates for all you have done. You and Steve Jobs will be remembered in infamy
Take it from me Gates and Microsoft have nothing to do with innovation. I worked for IBM on OS/2 and was around when this was an IBM/Microsoft development. IBM designed an interface / desktop called Presentation Manager, the next thing Windows 3.1 turns up with a 'very similar' interface. I can tell you more about this but then it's been said before.....there was certainly no innovation from dear Bill and his team!!
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:15 PM   #73
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Take it from me Gates and Microsoft have nothing to do with innovation. I worked for IBM on OS/2 and was around when this was an IBM/Microsoft development. IBM designed an interface / desktop called Presentation Manager, the next thing Windows 3.1 turns up with a 'very similar' interface. I can tell you more about this but then it's been said before.....there was certainly no innovation from dear Bill and his team!!
IBM didn't create Presentation Manager, MS created it for them while developing OS/2.
Short of appearance, many of the functions are completely different from Windows 3.x.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:18 PM   #74
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It really isn't.

Sure the desktop is there, but things that were trivial to do in Win 7 (and earlier) are now infuriatingly annoying. Settings being app-based now, in context, on whatever that sidebar thing is, is very annoying. Then they expand to full screen when you want to change them! Flipping between that and the web page you're following was needlessly annoying.

I couldn't set up the in built mail application since it seemed determined to force me to set up a "Microsoft Account" without really telling me what that is, but worrying me enough not to want to connect it with my email.

The Metro UI is silly - bring back the Start Menu and it's quick and easy access to everything.

Telling apart apps that are going to run "metro style" and those that will run "old" style is not easy, and you can also have ones that do both, like IE (which you then can't share between modes easily, so getting a webpage down into the desktop version of the browser is non-trivial so you can have more than just full screen web browsing going on.

I know there's going to be a lot of "it's all just new" issues slowing people down since it's different to Win 7, but a lot of it is genuinely ridiculous when Win 7 actually had things working pretty damn well. I say this as someone who uses Windows only on lab machines etc, and occasional dual booting to run some of the win only NMR stuff, but Windows 8 is... not good.

Windows 7 is pretty great. 7 is what Vista should have been, and 8 is just... not where they should have gone with it.
Totally agree, I seriously don't like having to click on a corner to get you to the start, should have left the start button on the desktop mode.

I can see why they did it, but I don't like it.

Oh, and I still haven't found the shut down button, and have to ctrl alt delete to shut down via the options screen, but then I've only used it for one night, but if I cant get to grips with '8' in the next couple of days then I'm going back to '7'.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:18 PM   #75
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Do you say that as someone who's never used it before? Because the desktop is still right there, just as good as it was in Windows 7.
Oh I've used it. I support ~1000 windows machines/users in a corporate environment. My users would not be able to do their job on windows 8.
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