War on Christmas: European edition

[CorvusCamenarum]

Live from Brussels:

Government officials in Brussels, Belgium banned Wednesday a popular Christmas tree exhibit out of concerns that the local Muslim population found it “offensive.”

An “electronic winter tree,” will take the place of the traditional Christmas Tree and Nativity scene at the city center of Grand Place, reports Brussels News.

Nice to know the majority of non-Muslim citizens of Brussels apparently don't get much of a say in the matter.

Two Muslims elected to the Brussels city council last month have vowed to turn Belgium into a Muslim state based on Sharia law, as previously reported.

Rather effective to only have been on the job for a month.

[Iscariot]

Anyone, anywhere in the free world, vowing to convert a free and secular state into a religious state of any kind ought to be summarily thrown out of office, preferably right into a jail cell. Freedom to religion inherently necessitates freedom from religion.

[Blue Velvet]

Hmm. Like Belgium, been there often, including the Grande Place. No danger of the Belgians becoming the second Mecca, no matter what Americans may think. Most of them don't even hold passports.

Anyway, when you go to non-partisan news sites to find out about this story, you find the following:

Reassuring people that the festivities will be just as authentic, president of Brussels Tourism Philippe Close said: “Let’s be clear, there’ll be a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. Christmas traditions will be respected.

“The theme this year is “winter pleasures” at the huge Christmas market that has a worldwide reputation. We wanted to emphasize culture and modernity, so asked artists to reinvent the Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan symbol,” he explained.

There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some falsely blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/12/m...hristmas-tree/

Who would have imagined?

Besides, if someone could take the time to point out the passages in the Bible that cover the topic of Xmas trees, I'd appreciate it.

*yawn*

[Anuba]

Yeah, thanks a lot for accelerating that process by x1000 by invading Iraq, which led to Europe being flooded with refugees. A few hanging chads in Florida and whammo, we got Bush instead of Gore, and blammo, invasion of Iraq based on vague info about WMDs. Now there's a town in Sweden that has more Iraqi refugees than the entire USA has accepted. And after them came the avalanche of Afghans. We'd gladly take Mexicans any day over Somalis, out of which 70% are illiterate and 75% are unemployed (or rather, unemployable).

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by Anuba

Yeah, thanks a lot for accelerating that process by x1000 by invading Iraq, which led to Europe being flooded with refugees.

Er, source?

[Zombie Acorn]

I wonder if Jesus had a Christmas tree, if so were they just called trees?

[Anuba]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

Er, source?

You want a source on the obviously hyperbolic "x1000", or you want a source on the number of Iraqi asylum seekers that flooded Europe in the years following the invasion in 2003?

http://www.thelocal.se/11040/20080411/
"...Södertälje, a town of 80,000 residents, has taken in more Iraqi refugees than the United States and Canada combined..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17647764.../#.UKLOx6XDO-I
"...About 2 million Iraqis have fled the bloodshed in their country since 2003, mainly to Syria and Jordan. An additional 1.7 million are believed to have been displaced within Iraq. Within Europe, most Iraqis have headed for Sweden, followed by the Netherlands, Germany, Greece, Britain and Belgium..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_d..._all_countries
UK 250,000, Germany 150,000, Sweden 118,000, USA 37,700 etc etc.

The Swedish figure is old, it was 125,500 in 2011. Before the war it was 49,000 accumulated between the mid 1970's and 2002.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Iscariot

Anyone, anywhere in the free world, vowing to convert a free and secular state into a religious state of any kind ought to be summarily thrown out of office ...

Correction: Anyone, anywhere in the free world, vowing to convert a free and secular state into a religious state of any kind ought to be summarily voted out of office ... but only if that's what their constituents want.

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum

Live from Brussels:


Nice to know the majority of non-Muslim citizens of Brussels apparently don't get much of a say in the matter.



Rather effective to only have been on the job for a month.

Who voted for the 2 Muslims on the City Council? With that statement, I would think that might get them unelected next time around.

[flopticalcube]

Why would muslims be offended by celebrating the birth of one of their great and revered prophets?

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by flopticalcube

Why would muslims be offended by celebrating the birth of one of their great and revered prophets?

They're not, and as Blue Velvet pointed out, the tree and nativity stuff is still there, they're just accentuating the pagan origins of Christmas.

[iJohnHenry]

Originally Posted by skottichan

They're not, and as Blue Velvet pointed out, the tree and nativity stuff is still there, they're just accentuating the pagan origins of Christmas.

Usurped Pagan origins, I would remind you.

Christ was NOT born anywhere near December 25th.

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by iJohnHenry

Usurped Pagan origins, I would remind you.

Christ was NOT born anywhere near December 25th.

Oh I know, most biblical scholars, using text from their bible actually pin it closer to April (IIRC). It's just that the pagans had wonderful winter festivals, and how best to recruit, steal the locals' ideas.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn

I wonder if Jesus had a Christmas tree, if so were they just called trees?

Back in Jesus' day, they were called חגיגת חג שיחים, which roughly translates into festive celebration shrubbery.

Also, if anyone here speaks Hebrew, and I somehow insulted a whole load of people with whatever I wrote above, don't be angry with me. I took what the online translator spit out.

[Happybunny]

Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum

Live from Brussels:


Nice to know the majority of non-Muslim citizens of Brussels apparently don't get much of a say in the matter.



Rather effective to only have been on the job for a month.

I would dearly love to know, do you really believe this crap.
Because if you do it would explain why a lot of Americans see any foreigner as an enemy.

[Dagless]

I always thought I'd feel the effects of the "War on Christmas", given that my town *probably* has more practising muslims than christians. This should be the front line. But nope, we still have our christmas tree up, the christmas lights recently went on.

Not really seeing it to be honest.

[Dr McKay]

The most annoying thing is usually they don't even ask Muslims if they'd find these things offensive, (which they normally don't). Some Politically Correct Weasel in a suit assumes that a Muslim finds these offensive and makes the decision on their behalf. Which in turn leads people to blame Muslims.

[quasinormal]

Originally Posted by CorvusCamenarum

Live from Brussels:

Nice to know the majority of non-Muslim citizens of Brussels apparently don't get much of a say in the matter.

Rather effective to only have been on the job for a month.

Have you got a link other than the blog of 2 redneck right wingers from Staten Island?

You know, like an actual news source.

.A petition calling for a real Christmas tree in Brussels’ Grand Place has attracted 10,000 signatures.

Angering traditionalists, the Belgian city’s tourist board has commissioned a 25-metre installation made from screens that will put on light and sound displays.

Reassuring people that the festivities will be just as authentic, president of Brussels Tourism Philippe Close said: “Let’s be clear, there’ll be a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. Christmas traditions will be respected.

“The theme this year is “winter pleasures” at the huge Christmas market that has a worldwide reputation. We wanted to emphasize culture and modernity, so asked artists to reinvent the Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan symbol,” he explained.

There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some falsely blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/12/m...hristmas-tree/

It is deeply saddening to see people post divisive and erroneous BS like this.

[Anuba]

Originally Posted by quasinormal

Have you got a link other than the blog of 2 redneck right wingers from Staten Island?

There isn't one, and that's because the story is BS. What's happened is that the museum of modern art in Brussels has commissioned a very modernistic tree. It's still in the rough shape of one but it's not an actual tree, it's made from glass and displays. Traditionalists who want a real tree have protested this, and tin foil hats have concocted a theory that it was done to avoid offending muslims, and it's their speculation that the right-wing bloggers have turned into a news story. Here's the real story.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/11/12/m...hristmas-tree/

[VulchR]

Originally Posted by Happybunny

I would dearly love to know, do you really believe this crap.
Because if you do it would explain why a lot of Americans see any foreigner as an enemy.

I don't believe the cr*p posted by the OP, but I would like to ask you about the cr*p you posted. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Americans are more xenophobic than, say, Europeans? Certainly the xenophobia I see in the UK is far worse than anything I've seen in the US and it's not as though there aren't right-wing idiots performing acts of violence against immigrants all over Europe.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by VulchR

I don't believe the cr*p posted by the OP, but I would like to ask you about the cr*p you posted. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Americans are more xenophobic than, say, Europeans? Certainly the xenophobia I see in the UK is far worse than anything I've seen in the US and it's not as though there aren't right-wing idiots performing acts of violence against immigrants all over Europe.

Same old, same old for him. All he seems to post is Netherlands great, US bad.

[Happybunny]

Originally Posted by VulchR

I don't believe the cr*p posted by the OP, but I would like to ask you about the cr*p you posted. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Americans are more xenophobic than, say, Europeans? Certainly the xenophobia I see in the UK is far worse than anything I've seen in the US and it's not as though there aren't right-wing idiots performing acts of violence against immigrants all over Europe.

I have never lived in the UK, so I would not know. The only thing I do associate with the UK is a deep distrust of Europe.
I do know that in the Netherlands the people who have travelled for long periods outside the European zone, tend to be far less xenophobic.

Originally Posted by rdowns

Same old, same old for him. All he seems to post is Netherlands great, US bad.

Where do I state this, all I asked was if the poster really believed what he had written.

I do notice that both UK and US citizens are very touchy if any foreigner dares to question any aspect of the status quo in either country.

[Anuba]

Originally Posted by VulchR

I don't believe the cr*p posted by the OP, but I would like to ask you about the cr*p you posted. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Americans are more xenophobic than, say, Europeans? Certainly the xenophobia I see in the UK is far worse than anything I've seen in the US and it's not as though there aren't right-wing idiots performing acts of violence against immigrants all over Europe.

I don't think that's what 'Happybunny' meant, I think he was talking about American attitudes towards foreign countries, not diversity.

The image that America projects in that regard is perhaps not the best. It's about this whole thing with "American exceptionalism" and that the rest of the world is just a backdrop, a mindset reminiscent of that of the people of planet Krikkit in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's about claiming the role of self-appointed world police. It's about American troops treating foreign people in places like Japan, Vietnam or Iraq like disposable animals that can be wiped out by the millions with a shrug, but if another nation attacks a military base on a tiny strip of land over 2000 miles off the US coast, it's an epic disaster that will "live in infamy" (after the earthquake in Japan, many Americans expressed great joy and satisfaction on facebook etc, along the lines of 'serves'em right for Pearl Harbor!' Yeah... because two atomic bombs that killed XXX.XXX civilians wasn't enough... they must die over and over again b/c of Pearl Harbor.)
It's about the unbridled patriotism, the flag waving and the chanting, behavior that sends chills down European spines because the last time they saw people that fired up over their own flag, it had a swastika on it. It's about this notion of monopoly on "freedom" as if people in other first world countries are shackled slaves. It's about renaming french fries to 'freedom fries' because the country that donated the Statue of Liberty wouldn't go along with attacking Iraq based on a little more than a gut feeling about WMDs. It's the fact that someone will probably report me for "trolling" for simply conveying these observations.

THAT attitude towards anything foreign is unbecoming, and constantly forces pro-American people around the world to bite their tongues. But yeah, I do agree with you that Americans aren't very xenophobic inside its own borders.

[Tilpots]

Originally Posted by Dagless

But nope, we still have our christmas tree up, the christmas lights recently went on.

Already? Maybe the week of Thanksgiving, but it's just to early for decorations, IMO. But what do I know, I never put up Christmas lights. Do love to see a well decorated house, though!

[Happybunny]

Originally Posted by Anuba

I don't think that's what 'Happybunny' meant, I think he was talking about American attitudes towards foreign countries, not diversity.

The image that America projects in that regard is perhaps not the best. It's about this whole thing with "American exceptionalism" and that the rest of the world is just a backdrop, a mindset reminiscent of that of the people of planet Krikkit in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's about claiming the role of self-appointed world police. It's about American troops treating foreign people in places like Japan, Vietnam or Iraq like disposable animals that can be wiped out by the millions with a shrug, but if another nation attacks a military base on a tiny strip of land over 2000 miles off the US coast, it's an epic disaster that will "live in infamy" (after the earthquake in Japan, many Americans expressed great joy and satisfaction on facebook etc, along the lines of 'serves'em right for Pearl Harbor!' Yeah... because two atomic bombs that killed XXX.XXX civilians wasn't enough... they must die over and over again b/c of Pearl Harbor.)
It's about the unbridled patriotism, the flag waving and the chanting, behavior that sends chills down European spines because the last time they saw people that fired up over their own flag, it had a swastika on it. It's about this notion of monopoly on "freedom" as if people in other first world countries are shackled slaves. It's about renaming french fries to 'freedom fries' because the country that donated the Statue of Liberty wouldn't go along with attacking Iraq based on a little more than a gut feeling about WMDs. It's the fact that someone will probably report me for "trolling" for simply conveying these observations.

THAT attitude towards anything foreign is unbecoming, and constantly forces pro-American people around the world to bite their tongues. But yeah, I do agree with you that Americans aren't very xenophobic inside its own borders.

Thank you I think.
I did not get all the references to the 'Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy' having never read the book or seen the film.

But yes that is what I was trying to say.

I apologise if people take what I say as Anti American.
But the fact remains no one country has every answer to every problem.

But it is that attitude to foreign countries which means that in the very recent pass the US has won the wars, but can't win the peace.