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Old Nov 15, 2012, 03:29 PM   #26
kgian
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I would also go for the mini if it had dedicated GPU. Without it it is a no go though...
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 03:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by majkom View Post
What exactly is meant by "quality of Apple product"? There are ordinary samsung SSDs in mini and ordinary WD (or even worse brand) HDD... so, you believe in quality of standard products, which have some standard failure rate
, but it does not change the fact that the Apple offers the most stable product. I never saw a PC (even the ones with the most advanced configurations) can be so stable as a five-year old apple product. If any device-brand thing can convince me, I would like to see evidence.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 03:41 PM   #28
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You're right! I got mixed up, the Fusion is 250 EUR

By "keeping the HDD" I meant buying the Mac with the HDD and afterwards getting the extra SSD, this way I will spend the extra 300 EUR but with the advantage of keeping the original HDD that I can use or sell helping me to maybe buy a faster HDD.

If I were to buy the SSD only, they don't give me the HDD, see my point?

Anyone know if we can use the Fusion + an extra SSD?
Hi, I just calculated the price if you configure an high-end Mac mini in Portugal in order to achieve "almost" the same level iMac 21". It is around 1500EUR (I added the keyboard and the mouse). However, this configuration still misses something: an discrete GPU, a monitor, a webcam, and the simple nice body.

For iMac 21, adding all great configurations costs around 2100EUR.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 04:14 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Kev.LoveMac View Post
, but it does not change the fact that the Apple offers the most stable product. I never saw a PC (even the ones with the most advanced configurations) can be so stable as a five-year old apple product. If any device-brand thing can convince me, I would like to see evidence.
LOL, it differs from piece to piece... my original macbook air (rev A) had samsung HDD and it simply died, after 3 years, my mac mini wifi died after approx. 8 months, on the other hand, my old HP notebook worked for 4 years then I gave it to friend, it probably works even now.. so please...
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 03:42 AM   #30
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Hi, I just calculated the price if you configure an high-end Mac mini in Portugal in order to achieve "almost" the same level iMac 21". It is around 1500EUR (I added the keyboard and the mouse). However, this configuration still misses something: an discrete GPU, a monitor, a webcam, and the simple nice body.

For iMac 21, adding all great configurations costs around 2100EUR.
How did you get that number?
Mind you that the RAM can be bought elsewhere, and that will save me a bundle compared to what I would have to pay for the RAM at the Apple store, the iMac dodn't give you that option to buy outside.

Also I don't need a keyboard or mouse.

My numbers and what I will spend:
(for US change the decimal comma to a period)

Apple Store: Intel Core i7 quad-core a 2,6 GHz -> 958,99 EUR (no shipping costs)
Crucial: 16GB RAM (2 x 8GB) -> 76,00 EUR + 17,00 EUR (shipping)
Total: 1051,99 EUR

Then I will maybe buy a 250GB SSD from Crucial and a flex cable to install it, or maybe just the data travel kit from crucial, that costs me about 230 EUR including shipping and flex cable from owc/amazon, and I keep the HDD (and use it).

So it would be a total of about 1281 EUR

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Originally Posted by majkom View Post
LOL, it differs from piece to piece... my original macbook air (rev A) had samsung HDD and it simply died, after 3 years, my mac mini wifi died after approx. 8 months, on the other hand, my old HP notebook worked for 4 years then I gave it to friend, it probably works even now.. so please...
This is true, but it isn't a coincidence that Mac hardware lasts longer (I don't know from now on if that will continue though).

I've had seven macs already and the two problems I had until now were the GPU of an intel MBP died, and Apple replaced it for free (they acknowledged it was faulty) and the battery on that mac died also, but that may not be considered a problem because it's expectable. Apart from that I've never had an HHD die, or OOD die, or whatever hardware die, and I use it intensively.

I'm still using a PowerMac G5, it is almost 8 years old and rocks, the main reason I'm getting a new mac is because of intel only apps, otherwise I would wait until the next intel processor.

Also I'm still using a 15" monitor (my second display), it is an Apple CRT and is almost 15 years old, the colours are bright and very clear, amazing for such an old hardware!
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 07:03 AM   #31
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Will the mac mini perform as well? User upgradeability is important for me, and also the silence and temperature, I don't know if the mac mini is silent or warm/hot...
I have a late 2009 Mac Mini. I never shut it off, except when I move. It does not get hot and it is very quiet. I cannot hear a thing. Originally it was located in hot and humid Florida, then it drove 3,000 with me to Seattle. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it. The GPU is an NVIDIA 9400M. I use a single 22" monitor (Hewlett-Packard). I don't do much graphics wise, but it can play a movie through the optical drive or streaming without any problems. It is not good for any type of gaming.

I also have a 2007 Mac Mini. I was looking at Apple TV to use as a music server, but thought the Mac Mini would do a better job. That Mini is still going strong and has not had a single problem, either. It is hooked up to a 50" plasma through a VGA port. We can use the included remote to select songs through iTunes and use it as a jukebox.

I've been waiting for the iMac to get the nice display and do a little bit of gaming, but I am a little worried about quality at this point. I don't really need a new computer.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 09:08 AM   #32
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Don't forget: the Mini is ALSO FASTER. At least, if you take the 2.3 or 2.6 Core i7 model, it outperforms ALL off the shelve iMacs (which all have i5 quad cores = 4 threads instead of the 8 on the mini). And as a bonus: there will be no iMac available at all right now.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 09:28 AM   #33
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How did you get that number?
Mind you that the RAM can be bought elsewhere, and that will save me a bundle compared to what I would have to pay for the RAM at the Apple store, the iMac dodn't give you that option to buy outside.

Also I don't need a keyboard or mouse.

My numbers and what I will spend:
(for US change the decimal comma to a period)

Apple Store: Intel Core i7 quad-core a 2,6 GHz -> 958,99 EUR (no shipping costs)
Crucial: 16GB RAM (2 x 8GB) -> 76,00 EUR + 17,00 EUR (shipping)
Total: 1051,99 EUR

Then I will maybe buy a 250GB SSD from Crucial and a flex cable to install it, or maybe just the data travel kit from crucial, that costs me about 230 EUR including shipping and flex cable from owc/amazon, and I keep the HDD (and use it).

So it would be a total of about 1281 EUR

----------



This is true, but it isn't a coincidence that Mac hardware lasts longer (I don't know from now on if that will continue though).

I've had seven macs already and the two problems I had until now were the GPU of an intel MBP died, and Apple replaced it for free (they acknowledged it was faulty) and the battery on that mac died also, but that may not be considered a problem because it's expectable. Apart from that I've never had an HHD die, or OOD die, or whatever hardware die, and I use it intensively.

I'm still using a PowerMac G5, it is almost 8 years old and rocks, the main reason I'm getting a new mac is because of intel only apps, otherwise I would wait until the next intel processor.

Also I'm still using a 15" monitor (my second display), it is an Apple CRT and is almost 15 years old, the colours are bright and very clear, amazing for such an old hardware!
You are right. If you already have a lot of accessories, then Mac mini is a cheaper option.

I cleaned my office room completely recently, just for the new iMac 21'. I personally really want everything can be fit just in an ALL-in-One.


I think we both agree that it isn't a coincidence that Mac hardware lasts longer. That is an important reason why we choose apple.

----------

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Originally Posted by Scrapula View Post
I have a late 2009 Mac Mini. I never shut it off, except when I move. It does not get hot and it is very quiet. I cannot hear a thing. Originally it was located in hot and humid Florida, then it drove 3,000 with me to Seattle. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it. The GPU is an NVIDIA 9400M. I use a single 22" monitor (Hewlett-Packard). I don't do much graphics wise, but it can play a movie through the optical drive or streaming without any problems. It is not good for any type of gaming.

I also have a 2007 Mac Mini. I was looking at Apple TV to use as a music server, but thought the Mac Mini would do a better job. That Mini is still going strong and has not had a single problem, either. It is hooked up to a 50" plasma through a VGA port. We can use the included remote to select songs through iTunes and use it as a jukebox.

I've been waiting for the iMac to get the nice display and do a little bit of gaming, but I am a little worried about quality at this point. I don't really need a new computer.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 09:44 AM   #34
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I'm going that route and based upon this review and my personal use for photography I think it will make great value

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2012/201211...ographers.html
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:40 PM   #35
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I'm going that route and based upon this review and my personal use for photography I think it will make great value

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2012/201211...ographers.html
Nice links, thanks! I really enjoyed the one stating the advantages of a SSD + HDD vs Fusion: http://macperformanceguide.com/macmi...vs-fusion.html
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:53 PM   #36
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Nice links, thanks! I really enjoyed the one stating the advantages of a SSD + HDD vs Fusion: http://macperformanceguide.com/macmi...vs-fusion.html
I just did this. And I bought the server with two ssd's. Check out my reasoning if it helps!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1490810
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:02 PM   #37
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I just did this. And I bought the server with two ssd's. Check out my reasoning if it helps!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1490810
Nice one!

Why did you go for the server option? you could get the 2.6 i7 without server, the only difference is the OS X and 2GB drive.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:16 PM   #38
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Nice one!

Why did you go for the server option? you could get the 2.6 i7 without server, the only difference is the OS X and 2GB drive.
To get the two ssd's you have to go with the server. No other reason. With the other build you just get the option of one ssd. I decided I would pay extra and let apple put the ssd in. After I paid for the extra ssd and kit and possibly voided my warranty it wouldn't be worth it for me to do myself. I'd rather just pay the extra.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:47 PM   #39
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To get the two ssd's you have to go with the server. No other reason. With the other build you just get the option of one ssd. I decided I would pay extra and let apple put the ssd in. After I paid for the extra ssd and kit and possibly voided my warranty it wouldn't be worth it for me to do myself. I'd rather just pay the extra.
Would be interesting to see what kind of SSD Apple will put into your system ? With regards to warranty I think there is not much that is going to go wrong with DIY if you follow steps properly, you could always get warranty from Squaretrade instead of paying for Applecare.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 04:57 PM   #40
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Would be interesting to see what kind of SSD Apple will put into your system ? With regards to warranty I think there is not much that is going to go wrong with DIY if you follow steps properly, you could always get warranty from Squaretrade instead of paying for Applecare.
Yeh I don't know what kind of ssd they will use. I just know it's bound to be way better than my 5400 rpm hd. I am just on the cusp of 500 gb of data on my present imac. I have partitioned my 2 TB western digital and will put hopefully 150 gb of files I don't use so much on that giving me head room. Eventually I might upgrade one or both ssd's in the future!
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 06:16 PM   #41
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I'm another one pondering Mac mini vs iMac 27... I need to buy something this year due to tax deductions. Ideally, I would like a 27" iMac with Core i7 3770 + 256GB SSD, but I'm afraid this will cost >2500 EUR. If only Apple would publish BTO prices....

Now my biggest problem is that I simply cannot have an ugly computer anymore, especially the display. So I'm stuck with 27" Thunderbolt or LED Cinema Display, which ironically is more than 50% of total system price, ouch.

I am also considering a hackintosh. Core i7 3770 + MB + 16GB RAM + GTX660 + nice Fractal Design case + 256GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD + 27" LED Cinema Display would cost about 1750 EUR + VAT in Germany (cyberport.de).

Now, for the same price I can also get Mac mini with 2,6Ghz Core i7 (quad) - about 15% slower than 3770), 4GB RAM + 1TB HDD, upgraded (aftermarket) with 256GB SSD and 16GB of RAM + 27" Thunderbolt Display.

Mac mini is a bit slower and has much much worse graphics (but for my 2D work would probably be enough). But it looks nicer and is 100% compatible/functional. Hackintosh is a bit faster with much better graphics, but also consumes more power, is uglier, I also read updating OSX is a pain in the ass (esp. if you stopped tinkering with PCs ages ago), and there can be compatibility issues. Not to be neglected - I'd say hackintosh also has lower resale value in 3 years...

So, very hard to decide... hopefully Apple with publish iMac BTO prices soon so we can see where we stand...
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 06:56 PM   #42
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I'm another one pondering Mac mini vs iMac 27... I need to buy something this year due to tax deductions. Ideally, I would like a 27" iMac with Core i7 3770 + 256GB SSD, but I'm afraid this will cost >2500 EUR. If only Apple would publish BTO prices....

Now my biggest problem is that I simply cannot have an ugly computer anymore, especially the display. So I'm stuck with 27" Thunderbolt or LED Cinema Display, which ironically is more than 50% of total system price, ouch.

I am also considering a hackintosh. Core i7 3770 + MB + 16GB RAM + GTX660 + nice Fractal Design case + 256GB OCZ Vertex 4 SSD + 27" LED Cinema Display would cost about 1750 EUR + VAT in Germany (cyberport.de).

Now, for the same price I can also get Mac mini with 2,6Ghz Core i7 (quad) - about 15% slower than 3770), 4GB RAM + 1TB HDD, upgraded (aftermarket) with 256GB SSD and 16GB of RAM + 27" Thunderbolt Display.

Mac mini is a bit slower and has much much worse graphics (but for my 2D work would probably be enough). But it looks nicer and is 100% compatible/functional. Hackintosh is a bit faster with much better graphics, but also consumes more power, is uglier, I also read updating OSX is a pain in the ass (esp. if you stopped tinkering with PCs ages ago), and there can be compatibility issues. Not to be neglected - I'd say hackintosh also has lower resale value in 3 years...

So, very hard to decide... hopefully Apple with publish iMac BTO prices soon so we can see where we stand...
you said you need it for tax deduction purpose so I'm assuming this computer is going to be something for business/earning. Hackintosh are great but will you be willing to take a hit in case you have some deliverables and your hackintosh starts to act up ? Look at what kind of work you are going to do as well as what kind of computing power you will be able to utilize v/s how much of that computing power will be sitting simply idle. I wanted iMac and would have loved to get 21.5" if it was user upgradable but looks like Apple is not interested in doing that . Other way to think is if you get Mac Mini this year and after couple of months - mostly when iMac supply stabilizes as well as bugs are ironed out you could easily sell your Mini for iMac.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 07:23 PM   #43
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Nice links, thanks! I really enjoyed the one stating the advantages of a SSD + HDD vs Fusion: http://macperformanceguide.com/macmi...vs-fusion.html
Those results are slightly biased. At 16GB of ram, if you're remaining within ram on most tasks, you shouldn't see such a big difference working on an image. He probably tested processing on a group of images (one wouldn't take that long). If times on such things are critical, it might be a bigger deal. My opinion would be get the mini and maxed ram first. Photoshop and Lightroom love ram. Test performance. If you think it could still be better, then grab the ssd. The quad options are great cpus. If we could get some improvements on integrated graphics, it would help. They won't make too big of a difference for what you do. I use a couple things that heavily leverage openCL, and a lot of OpenCL stuff is really made for workstation class gpus with 2GB of ram on the card. For PS and LR, it's much less meaningful. I know everything in each program that uses it. The only really painful thing without gpu based OpenCL support is iris blur. I never use it anyway.



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you said you need it for tax deduction purpose so I'm assuming this computer is going to be something for business/earning. Hackintosh are great but will you be willing to take a hit in case you have some deliverables and your hackintosh starts to act up ? Look at what kind of work you are going to do as well as what kind of computing power you will be able to utilize v/s how much of that computing power will be sitting simply idle. I wanted iMac and would have loved to get 21.5" if it was user upgradable but looks like Apple is not interested in doing that . Other way to think is if you get Mac Mini this year and after couple of months - mostly when iMac supply stabilizes as well as bugs are ironed out you could easily sell your Mini for iMac.
I'd switch to Windows rather than go hackintosh. There are tradeoffs. Windows actually has a couple features that I like, then there are some things I really dislike. Snow Leopard was the best OSX revision once it stabilized. Lion and ML have given me problems, especially with memory management. Even though it's not every day, that I can feel constrained at 16GB in Lion pisses me off.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 08:56 PM   #44
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I'm another 27" 2012 iMac wannabe and am pondering the Mini.

Has anyone seen this review: http://www.parkablogs.com/content/re...-video-editing ?

And if you go read it, what do you think of the reviewers opinions/comments specifically related to graphic design and light video editing? These would be my main uses ... CS6 (Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, Indesign), and occasional FCP (usually 20 to 60 minute clips with basic effects). No gaming for me.

Any opinions?
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 10:00 PM   #45
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I'm another 27" 2012 iMac wannabe and am pondering the Mini.

Has anyone seen this review: http://www.parkablogs.com/content/re...-video-editing ?

And if you go read it, what do you think of the reviewers opinions/comments specifically related to graphic design and light video editing? These would be my main uses ... CS6 (Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, Indesign), and occasional FCP (usually 20 to 60 minute clips with basic effects). No gaming for me.

Any opinions?
sounds good, here is my logic for getting mini instead of iMac, first of all cost of 27" now starts at 1799, previously I was planning on getting 21.5" but it looks more like a consumer appliance rather than something you would want to do for production job, in their constant pursuit for thinner devices they have screwed iMac21.5" by making virtually non-upgradable. Performance of quadcore i7 mini is pretty good, and for people who are not into gaming intel 4000 is not a bad processor, just make sure you upgrade it to 16GB RAM. One more thing dont go for fusion instead get regular HDD and install SSD on your own.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 06:10 AM   #46
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sounds good, here is my logic for getting mini instead of iMac, first of all cost of 27" now starts at 1799, previously I was planning on getting 21.5" but it looks more like a consumer appliance rather than something you would want to do for production job, in their constant pursuit for thinner devices they have screwed iMac21.5" by making virtually non-upgradable. Performance of quadcore i7 mini is pretty good, and for people who are not into gaming intel 4000 is not a bad processor, just make sure you upgrade it to 16GB RAM. One more thing dont go for fusion instead get regular HDD and install SSD on your own.
The non-upgradeable is for me the great reason so many people think of getting something else. Why did they do that?

Also, I read that you shouldn't partition a fusion drive, otherwise the partitioned part won't "benefit" from the SSD. This is a major thing for me since I use partitions (for those wondering about the benefit of a partition, one simple example is to have a partition with the OS and if I want to restore it I just do it to that small(er) partition, otheriwse the big HDD/fusion would be really impossible to do that).

The only thing that is stopping me from getting the mac mini is the HDMI problem, I have a dual monitor setup, so the TB -> DVI isn't a solution for me.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:45 PM   #47
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I'm another 27" 2012 iMac wannabe and am pondering the Mini.

Has anyone seen this review: http://www.parkablogs.com/content/re...-video-editing ?

And if you go read it, what do you think of the reviewers opinions/comments specifically related to graphic design and light video editing? These would be my main uses ... CS6 (Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, Indesign), and occasional FCP (usually 20 to 60 minute clips with basic effects). No gaming for me.

Any opinions?
Oh, I wrote that.

If you're not into gaming, Mac Mini is a a good choice. It's a powerful enough machine today.

The other advantage is you can choose not to go for a glossy screen.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:31 PM   #48
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...The audio input I doubt the single connection on the iMac serves both ways...
It certainly is possible on some Macs, see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3625
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:57 PM   #49
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It seems like NO ONE is paying attention to my countless posts of lack of a GPU in the Mac Mini......


To put things in perspective the GPu in the base model 2011 iMac is 3x faster..... 3x faster, do you have any idea how much that is?

I bought a 2012 Mac mini with 2.6 i7 and 16gb Ram and I couldn't use it for Hd video editing and effects. Also the stock 5400rpm hard drive was slower then the stock 7200rpm hard drive in my iMac.

Yes you can upgrade the hard drive so that would be better but as far as I know, there is simply no way to add a gpu to the Mac mini.

A processor is not everything.......
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 03:04 AM   #50
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Oh, I wrote that.

If you're not into gaming, Mac Mini is a a good choice. It's a powerful enough machine today.

The other advantage is you can choose not to go for a glossy screen.
You wrote the review? Nicely done and very useful.
My only concern is the lack of dedicated GPU. I do need to handle small FCP edits and sure don't want to regret a Mini purchase over the invisible iMac.

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It seems like NO ONE is paying attention to my countless posts of lack of a GPU in the Mac Mini......


To put things in perspective the GPu in the base model 2011 iMac is 3x faster..... 3x faster, do you have any idea how much that is?
. . .
A processor is not everything.......
I hear you Tears. When you say you couldn't edit HD video, do you mean it was sluggish, or it was impossible? I would think the former. Were you using FCP or iMovie or Premier or ??
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