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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:43 PM   #26
Fazzy
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I was wondering when there would be a topic on this.

This is one of the many times we'll all be relieved that romney was never elected. A week into his term and he'd already be sending troops into Gaza (because it's not like netenyahu needs any convincing, is it?)
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:54 PM   #27
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Israeli elections coming up... just sayin'. BTW, why did Hamas fire rockets into Israel? Two dead Palestinians are the reason.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:55 PM   #28
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anti isreal, anti usa, anti canada.

anti support for selling arms to hate on other humans
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 12:58 PM   #29
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Thank god for Iran's massive youth bulge.
Goodness!
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 01:52 PM   #30
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Didn't work out so well for another person who said something similar to this (although it did cost millions of more lives):

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai says "the goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years," according to Israel's Haaretz website.

It's from the beeb website so I assume it's accurate.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 01:53 PM   #31
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Didn't work out so well for another person who said something similar to this (although it did cost millions of more lives):

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai says "the goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years," according to Israel's Haaretz website.

It's from the beeb website so I assume it's accurate.
Eh, it's not that bad. I'd like to see the context of the quote. To be fair, Hamas calls for eliminating the entirety of Israel routinely.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 01:56 PM   #32
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Hamas has no interest in peace.

You guys need to understand this.

The total destruction of Israel is the only end that Hamas and their backers will accept.

Israel has no choice if they want to survive other than to take overwhelming force into Gaza and destroy Hamas completely.
And what makes Israel the "right" side of this conflict?

You need to understand it's nowhere near this simple. People have been fighting over that land for 2,000 years. Israel basically took it over after WWII.. you can see why Hamas is pissed.

There is no solution to this conflict. At least in our lifetimes, there will NEVER be peace in this region. Just stay out of the way and let them kill each other. No sense in wasting American money and lives trying to police a conflict that's 10 times older than our country has even existed.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 02:48 PM   #33
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Eh, it's not that bad. I'd like to see the context of the quote. To be fair, Hamas calls for eliminating the entirety of Israel routinely.
Not that bad? It is when they have the means, and will to.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 02:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
IsraelHamas has no interest in peace.

You guys need to understand this.

The total destruction of Israelthe Palestinians is the only end that HamasIsrael and their backers will accept.

HamasIsrael has no choice if they want to survive other than to take overwhelming force into IsraelGaza and destroy HamasIsrael completely.
Fixed it for you, and Jesus christ it is scary when you get to the bottom of swapping it around.

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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
You need to understand it's nowhere near this simple. People have been fighting over that land for 2,000 years.
Have they really, at least to greater degrees than any other part of the world?

----------

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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post


I forsee Israel provoking an attack (however small) from Iran, at which point bound by our ally agreements, we will be sucked in to "defend".

Thats if the **** really hits the fan. Thank god for Iran's massive youth bulge (2/3 of the population is under 30) the vast majority of whom have nothing but contempt for the current regime and leadership styles.
I don't think the Iranians would be stupid enough to attack Israel.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:30 PM   #35
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Have they really, at least to greater degrees than any other part of the world?
It's been going on since the crusades.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:46 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Peterkro View Post

Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai says "the goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years," according to Israel's Haaretz website.

It's from the beeb website so I assume it's accurate.
Shouldn't it read:
"..... Only then will Hamas won't have a recruiting problem for 40 years,"

Making the lives of the people more miserably simply won't work, make their lives so much better that they (the masses not just some small elite) have something to loose might erode support for Hamas and other radicals.


Well maybe someone will try that road in the 23rd century
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:02 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
It's been going on since the crusades.
Has it?

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Palestine joined the Islamic Empire following the 636 CE Battle of Yarmouk during the Muslim conquest of Syria. In 661 CE, with the assassination of Ali, Muawiyah I became the uncontested Caliph of the Islamic World after being crowned in Jerusalem. In 691, the Dome of the Rock became the world's first great work of Islamic architecture. The Umayyad were replaced by the Abbasids in 750. From 878 Palestine was ruled from Egypt by semi-autonomous rulers for almost a century, beginning with Ahmad ibn Tulun, and ending with the Ikhshidid rulers who were both buried in Jerusalem. The Fatimids conquered the region in 969. In 1073 Palestine was captured by the Great Seljuq Empire, only to be recaptured by the Fatimids in 1098, who then lost the region to the Crusaders in 1099. Their control of Jerusalem and most of Palestine lasted almost a century until defeat by Saladin's forces in 1187, after which most of Palestine was controlled by the Ayyubids. A rump Crusader state in the northern coastal cities survived for another century, but, despite seven further Crusades, the Crusaders were no longer a significant power in the region. The Mamluk Sultanate was indirectly created in Egypt as a result of the Seventh Crusade. The Mongol Empire reached Palestine for the first time in 1260, beginning with the Mongol raids into Palestine under Nestorian Christian general Kitbuqa and reaching an apex at the pivotal Battle of Ain Jalut. In 1486, hostilities broke out between the Mamluks and the Ottoman Turks in a battle for control over western Asia and the Ottomans captured Palestine in 1516.
In 1832 Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840 Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration and the Revival of the Hebrew language. Jewish immigration throughout the century created relatively large Jewish concentrations in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Jaffa.[2] The British government issued the pro-Zionist Balfour Declaration of 1917 during World War I. The British captured Jerusalem a month later, and were formally awarded a mandate in 1922.
So since the Crusaders were thrown out in 1187 the Mongols and 3 Islamic groups ruled Palestine at various times until 1922.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Peterkro View Post
Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai says "the goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for 40 years," according to Israel's Haaretz website.
Here is the link to that ...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...h-day-1.478505
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Link

Warning

This topic is one that typically stirs emotions. Please be respectful of others opinions and be mindful of the forum rules.



This is just an exert to hopefully get this discussion going.

Some things to note. The US, UK, and Germany have denounced Hamas firing rockets into Israel.
The Arab world, Egypt in particular, have denounced Israel.

With Israel massing troops on the Gaza border, an invasion seems imminent. Is it justified? How should Israel respond to Hamas launching hundreds of rockets?
I don't know, but I do know that "blood for blood/eye for an eye" is what has us (people in general) in situations like this for ages, with no end in sight. Someone has to pull up their pants, pull the zipper back around to the front, man up, and be better than what their enemies perceive them to be. Sit down, talk it out, and reach an agreement, regardless of how much time it takes. Until then, you'll have bloodshed going on like this for the next millennia.

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Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Hamas has no interest in peace.

You guys need to understand this.

The total destruction of Israel is the only end that Hamas and their backers will accept.

Israel has no choice if they want to survive other than to take overwhelming force into Gaza and destroy Hamas completely.
It is posts like this, that only look at things from the sense of political talking points, war, and various states, not lives. You talk about "destroying Hamas completely". What about the lives lost altogether? For example, a BBC Arabic journalist having to ask "Why did my son have to die like this?", when his son was only 11 months old. The journalist, nor his son had nothing to do with the conflict:

Quote:
'What Did My Son Do To Die Like This': A Father Mourns His 11-Month-Old Son

by EYDER PERALTA
November 15, 2012 2:25 PM

The picture at the top of this post is quickly coming to represent the human suffering behind the fighting in Gaza.

The Washington Post used it on its front page this morning and it's moved quickly and widely through Twitter.

The attacks have killed 13 people in Gaza and three people in Israel, so far. This picture shows Jihad Misharawi, a BBC Arabic journalist, carrying the body of his 11-month-old son.

The BBC has posted video of an interview with a grieving Misharawi.

"What did my son do to die like this?" he asks, crying. "What was his mistake? He is 10 or 11 months old. What did he do?"

Paul Danahar, the BBC's Middle East bureau chief, tweeted that Misharawi's neighborhood in Gaza City was not under attack when a shell came through the roof of his home and hit the room where Misharawi's son, Ahmad, was. The baby along with with Misharawi's sister-in-law died.

"[Question] asked here is: if Israel can kill a man riding on a moving motorbike (as they did last month) how did Jihad's son get killed?" Danahar said on twitter.

He adds that Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon tells the BBC that they apologize for civilian casualties, "but responsibility lies with Hamas."

Danahar also tweeted this photograph of Misharawi's son as a smiling, beautiful baby boy.
If this is your idea of "destroying Israel/Hamas completely", I want nothing to do with it, nor would I expect any other parent.

BL.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 04:48 PM   #40
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There is no solution to this conflict. At least in our lifetimes, there will NEVER be peace in this region. Just stay out of the way and let them kill each other. No sense in wasting American money and lives trying to police a conflict that's 10 times older than our country has even existed.
I highly disagree. See, the problem is that if Arabs did by some miracle destroy Israel (God forbid), do you really think they will just lay down their arms and start living peacefully with everybody? If you do, you're delusional and you need to stop smoking whatever it is that you do.

What they would do first is fight each other and then once they're done they will come for US and Europe. And will not stop until somebody gets wiped off completely. Because all those trained fighters don't know how to do anything else but kill people and expecting them to do anything but that is just extremely naive. So you should thank your lucky stars that it's Israel fighting them on their land and not you on yours. Even if you don't approve of their methods.

On top of that, many things you see in press are pure speculative bs. Yes, some civilians do get killed in military operations. It is true. But if Arabs were so concerned with it, they should've evacuated those civilians first and then start firing rockets. Instead they hide behind civilian backs like cowards. Neither the first nor the last time this is happening.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:03 PM   #41
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IWhat they would do first is fight each other and then once they're done they will come for US and Europe. And will not stop until somebody gets wiped off completely.
Er, why?
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:05 PM   #42
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If you guys can argue the Israeli/Palestinian problem and come up with a solution here in this thread I will be very impressed and contact the relevant parties and inform them that the PRSI people here have solved the problem.




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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:10 PM   #43
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If you guys can argue the Israeli/Palestinian problem and come up with a solution here in this thread I will be very impressed
Unless we have a way of blackmailing the Israelis to take part in talks I can't see us being successful.

The number of deaths caused by people from Gaza in recent years has been basically zero.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:11 PM   #44
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What they would do first is fight each other and then once they're done they will come for US and Europe. And will not stop until somebody gets wiped off completely. Because all those trained fighters don't know how to do anything else but kill people and expecting them to do anything but that is just extremely naive. So you should thank your lucky stars that it's Israel fighting them on their land and not you on yours. Even if you don't approve of their methods.
This has got to be satire.

You had me going there for minute.

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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:14 PM   #45
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. Yes, some civilians do get killed in military operations. It is true. But if Arabs were so concerned with it, they should've evacuated those civilians first and then start firing rockets. Instead they hide behind civilian backs like cowards. Neither the first nor the last time this is happening.
What? where do you think they could evacuate the civilians to (Gaza is one of the heaviest populated areas on the planet and it's very difficult to get anyone in or out).The lie to Israeli propaganda is easily exposed,look at the list of air attacks and see how many are on "unpopulated areas" (and there are very few in Gaza) that will tell you where the Palestinian resistance is,they're not in the heavily populated areas.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:51 PM   #46
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The only notice I would send IsraŽl Is to not write any checks their ass cant cash, the US has bigger things to worry about.,
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 06:12 PM   #47
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Avraham Burg, a former Knesset Speaker and former chair of the Jewish Agency for Israel, wrote in The Guardian in September 2003:

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"Between the Jordan and the Mediterranean there is no longer a clear Jewish majority. And so, fellow citizens, it is not possible to keep the whole thing without paying a price. We cannot keep a Palestinian majority under an Israeli boot and at the same time think ourselves the only democracy in the Middle East. There cannot be democracy without equal rights for all who live here, Arab as well as Jew. We cannot keep the territories and preserve a Jewish majority in the world's only Jewish state Ė not by means that are humane and moral and Jewish."
If only there were more like this.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 06:29 PM   #48
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There's little right with these two. I do hate the "can't disagree with Israel without being labeled an anti-Semite" nonsense though.

How about that drone strike of Ahmed Jabari being posted by the IDF on Youtube? I was most surprised by that. Then the Twitter back and forth. It's really odd seeing social media being used for conflict during conflict.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 06:49 PM   #49
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Unless we have a way of blackmailing the Israelis to take part in talks I can't see us being successful.

The number of deaths caused by people from Gaza in recent years has been basically zero.
So, from a strictly business perspective, their ROI is in negative territory.

Most would just declare Chapter 11, and call it a day.

Or would you prefer that their ineptitude somehow be remedied?
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:17 PM   #50
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There's little right with these two. I do hate the "can't disagree with Israel without being labeled an anti-Semite" nonsense though.
That would be difficult as the Palestinians and other Arabs are also of Semitic origin. People often have a hard time separating the Jewish ethnicity from the Israeli state although many Israeli opposition members have no problem doing that and neither should anyone else.
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How about that drone strike of Ahmed Jabari being posted by the IDF on Youtube? I was most surprised by that. Then the Twitter back and forth. It's really odd seeing social media being used for conflict during conflict.
Its very strange really, isn't it?
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