Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:32 AM   #76
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
What if Hamas just stopped firing rockets?
They've tried that for the past several years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Relevancy to the thread?
While claiming the Hamas rockets are fireworks might be being a bit unfair in comparison to the Israeli bombs they essentially are.

Stone-throwing youths can kill/injure people too.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:34 AM   #77
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
They've tried that for the past several years.
Has Israel been bombing them the past several years?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
While claiming the Hamas rockets are fireworks might be being a bit unfair in comparison to the Israeli bombs they essentially are.
No, they really aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Stone-throwing youths can kill/injure people too.
still trying to figure out why it's relevant
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:40 AM   #78
Peterkro
macrumors 68020
 
Peterkro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Communard de Londres
Quote:
Originally Posted by iJohnHenry View Post
Not surprising, when they launch from civilian areas.

There are lots of arid areas to use for their 'target practice'.

So, who's fault does civilian deaths fall on in that case?
I thought you where growing up a bit.Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet,there are very few open areas.Those open areas there are have been attacked nearly non stop since this started.Why because that's were most of the Palestinian resistance is dug in.

Of the 66 Palestinians killed so far 24 were children and a large proportion of the rest were woman (several pregnant) or older men (over 55).
Peterkro is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:50 AM   #79
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Has Israel been bombing them the past several years?
Israel has certainly been treating Gaza like a ghetto for the past several years.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:52 AM   #80
skunk
macrumors Demi-God
 
skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Republic of Ukistan
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
lol ok. Hamas gets to fire 600 rockets at Israel, including civilian targets, but Israel gets in trouble when they bomb Hamas, even though they are hiding in hospitals.
How do you know it's Hamas firing the rockets? How do you know they are "hiding in hospitals" (that is such tired propaganda)?

Quote:
this is the perfect example of bias
Precisely.
__________________
"The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted the spoons." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
skunk is online now   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:54 AM   #81
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Israel has certainly been treating Gaza like a ghetto for the past several years.
Ah so what you said was wrong.

Thanks.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by skunk View Post
How do you know it's Hamas firing the rockets?
How do you know it's Israel bombing Hamas?


Quote:
Originally Posted by skunk View Post
How do you know they are "hiding in hospitals" (that is such tired propaganda)?
Because that's what they do?
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:56 AM   #82
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterkro View Post
I thought you where growing up a bit.Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet,there are very few open areas.Those open areas there are have been attacked nearly non stop since this started.Why because that's were most of the Palestinian resistance is dug in.

Of the 66 Palestinians killed so far 24 were children and a large proportion of the rest were woman (several pregnant) or older men (over 55).
It's lose lose for Israel. Collateral damage does not win them anything, only makes it worse, reinforcing harsh feelings. I don't remember every twist and turn of the Israel Palestinian conflict, but what does Hamas really want? A fair economic system, restoration of lands?, or just a good fight? My understanding is that Palestinians are faced with a high level of corruption among their leadership complicating the situation. Israel does have a right to defend itself, but it also must take significant steps to address Palestinian issues if there is going to be any resolution other than killing all of them...
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:59 AM   #83
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
How do you know it's Israel bombing Hamas?
Because they are a stable government.

In Gaza it could be another rebel group.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
but what does Hamas really want? A fair economic system, restoration of lands?, or just a good fight?
Almost certainly the former - they are hardly doing that well in the fighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
if there is going to be any resolution other than killing all of them...
Nice subtle godwin .
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:00 PM   #84
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Because they are a stable government.

In Gaza it could be another rebel group.
So why isn't Hamas condeming the attack and trying to help Israel find the culprits who have launched 600 missiles into Israel? If Hamas wasn't backing this don't you think they would notice that hundreds of missiles, and the launchers have been rolled into Gaza and Hamas would have told Israel about it in good faith?

No. Because it's Hamas launching the damn rockets.

The extend that people go through on both sides of this to make excuses is simply astonishing.
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:02 PM   #85
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
So why isn't Hamas condeming the attack
Because after Israel assassinated their leader they've been at war.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:03 PM   #86
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
So why isn't Hamas condeming the attack and trying to help Israel find the culprits who have launched 600 missiles into Israel? If Hamas wasn't backing this don't you think they would notice that hundreds of missiles, and the launchers have been rolled into Gaza and Hamas would have told Israel about it in good faith?

No. Because it's Hamas launching the damn rockets.

The extend that people go through on both sides of this to make excuses is simply astonishing.
My guess when it comes to missiles flying out of Gaza and hitting Israel, Hamas is in tacit control of the situation.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:05 PM   #87
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Because after Israel assassinated their leader they've been at war.
So Hamas and Israel are at war, but Hamas isn't firing the rockets?

Are you trolling me?
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:10 PM   #88
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
So Hamas and Israel are at war, but Hamas isn't firing the rockets?

Are you trolling me?
In the past it is clear that Hamas has clamped down on the rocket firers, now not so much.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:11 PM   #89
Fazzy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: check the tracking device
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
So Hamas and Israel are at war, but Hamas isn't firing the rockets?

Are you trolling me?
You're either trolling us or being deliberately obtuse. No matter which way you look at it, it's impossible to come to a conclusion other than Israel being completely disproportionate with their firepower.
__________________
PICK ME PICK ME PICK ME PICK MEPICK MEPICK ME PICK ME
Fazzy is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:12 PM   #90
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazzy View Post
You're either trolling us or being deliberately obtuse. No matter which way you look at it, it's impossible to come to a conclusion other than Israel being completely disproportionate with their firepower.
And you come to that conclusion based on....? What exactly?

Hell, if you want you can compare the number of rockets/bombs dropped by both sides. Tell me the proportion to that.
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:19 PM   #91
Peterkro
macrumors 68020
 
Peterkro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Communard de Londres
If anyones interested here's a link to Harry Fears stream.He's sleeping or being interviewed somewhere else at the moment.He has however left a street mic on and you can hear the constant whine of drones above.Imagine what this is doing to the children of Gaza:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud
Peterkro is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:19 PM   #92
725032
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
And you come to that conclusion based on....? What exactly?

Hell, if you want you can compare the number of rockets/bombs dropped by both sides. Tell me the proportion to that.
I agree.

Too many people here suddenly becoming experts in warfare.
725032 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:25 PM   #93
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
I agree.

Too many people here suddenly becoming experts in warfare.
Yes, you are right. Killing 20x more enemies including large numbers of civilians is AOK and morally sound behaviour.
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:30 PM   #94
725032
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Yes, you are right. Killing 20x more enemies including large numbers of civilians is AOK and morally sound behaviour.
Please do not put words in my mouth.

If you are not willing to have a sensible conversation then i do not think you should post.
725032 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:34 PM   #95
NT1440
macrumors G3
 
NT1440's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Why exactly does everyone consider Hamas and Palestinians to be one in the same?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Well you have to take into consideration the failure of some of Hamas's rockets, and the missile shield intercepting others intended for civilian targets.[COLOR="#808080"]
How about Israel bombing buildings used for un-embedded journalism in Gaza?
NT1440 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:38 PM   #96
Fazzy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: check the tracking device
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
And you come to that conclusion based on....? What exactly?

Hell, if you want you can compare the number of rockets/bombs dropped by both sides. Tell me the proportion to that.
Yep, definitely trolling. Because 60+ dead versus 3 on the other side is proportionate? Or lets take "operation cast lead" of four years ago. 1300 Palestinians v wait for it... 14 Israelis, 9 of which were soldiers.

Don't make this into a game of top trumps. Human life is so much more valuable than that. Or are you more upset over the fact that you won't be able to buy twinkies anymore?
__________________
PICK ME PICK ME PICK ME PICK MEPICK MEPICK ME PICK ME
Fazzy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:42 PM   #97
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
Please do not put words in my mouth.
So what is your point?
__________________
If they have to tell you every day they are fair you can bet they arent, if they tell you they are balanced then you should know they are not - Don't Hurt me
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:54 PM   #98
725032
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Yes, you are right. Killing 20x more enemies including large numbers of civilians is AOK and morally sound behaviour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
So what is your point?
My point is that neither you or anyone else here is an expert on this matter.

Nor is it likely that anyone here is in full possession of all the facts.

At times like this it is wise to take a calm and open approach to such discussions.
725032 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 12:58 PM   #99
NickZac
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
How it should and how it will are two different things. They've been fighting for so long that none of them even know why they are fighting anymore. 'Should' would be bury the hatchet and reach some compromise but 'will' will be keep on killing each other for reasons that no one even remembers why.
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in ENGLISH, thank a Veteran.
NickZac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:03 PM   #100
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazzy View Post
Don't make this into a game of top trumps. Human life is so much more valuable than that.
Well I'm not doing that so idk what you're talking about

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazzy View Post
Yep, definitely trolling. Because 60+ dead versus 3 on the other side is proportionate? Or lets take "operation cast lead" of four years ago. 1300 Palestinians v wait for it... 14 Israelis, 9 of which were soldiers.
In case you weren't aware, disagreement =/= trolling. So you guys can stop copying me now and trying to use that as a buzz word.

Anyway.

Of those 60 dead, who are actually civilians, where were they when they died?

It's obvious that Israel doesn't indiscriminately bomb civilians. So the question is, are militants (as usual) hiding behind civilians while launching attacks as the Israeli civilians?

And I'm not discussing the past here. Just what's going on right now. Stay on topic please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazzy View Post
Or are you more upset over the fact that you won't be able to buy twinkies anymore?
irrelevant.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
Why exactly does everyone consider Hamas and Palestinians to be one in the same?

----------



How about Israel bombing buildings used for un-embedded journalism in Gaza?
Hamas is their government.

And I think that's dumb if that's what's really going on.
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carrier: Verizon iPhone 5 use in Israel Zmanbaseball2 iPhone 3 Mar 24, 2014 07:00 AM
Activating Sprint iPhone 5 in Israel IphoneIsrael iPhone Tips, Help and Troubleshooting 0 Apr 13, 2013 06:51 AM
iP5 USA -> Israel lego8 iPhone 1 Sep 21, 2012 06:40 PM
iPhone 5 makes appearance in Israel Technarchy iPhone 23 Sep 2, 2012 03:52 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC