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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:16 AM   #1
PracticalMac
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Republican party is DOOOOOoooooommmed....

Asking opinions from this well informed crowd. Will post my though later.

What is YOUR opinion of Republicans future? Explain WHY its either Doomed or be Resurrected?

Reminder:
Obama ran on platform of raising taxes/fees on almost everyone (Edit: I expect everyone will have a very small increase) and had very slow economic recovery, yet was reelected. By all rights he should have lost, yet won big (8 of 9 battleground states won. Democratic gains in House and Senate).

Discuss
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:17 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
Reminder:
Obama ran on platform of raising taxes/fees on almost everyone and had very slow economic recovery, yet was reelected.
That's the talking point in the media right now, but thats not the truth. He's trying to keep the middle class tax cut, which affects 98% of the population.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:18 AM   #3
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Isn't this already being covered in other threads? Such as http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1069101 ?
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:18 AM   #4
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If they dropped anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and ran on pro-state rights, they'd win the next presidential election. Many people actually are for smaller government, but simply can't vote republican based on social issues.

As it stands, they republican party (not the people who vote that way or anything) is incompetent and refuses to acknowledge or admit to being wrong on social issues and instead resorts to blaming Obama for "gifting minorities" instead of actually acknowledging what their platform used to be all about (See goldwater, paul, etc...).
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:22 AM   #5
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I wonder if we'll see the New Republican party like the UK's New Labour party (basically a re-branding and shift toward the centre).
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:29 AM   #6
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eric/ has it right. They would have won if they had chosen their policies more carefully. Social issues are a minefield for the GOP. This "gifting" comment reflects more on the losing candidate than the party, IMO. They can turn things around if they can get rid of the old guard.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
If they dropped anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and ran on pro-state rights, they'd win the next presidential election. Many people actually are for smaller government, but simply can't vote republican based on social issues.
Most people are for smaller government and spending cuts. Most people also can't articulate what spending ought to be cut, defend virtually all current spending, and pay lip service to "cutting waste."

Most people don't actually want spending cuts, they just like a good sound bite.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
That's the talking point in the media right now, but thats not the truth. He's trying to keep the middle class tax cut, which affects 98% of the population.
Agree, but I fully expect some tiny increase across board resulting from changes in tax code and such.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Isn't this already being covered in other threads? Such as http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1069101 ?
No.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
If they dropped anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and ran on pro-state rights, they'd win the next presidential election. Many people actually are for smaller government, but simply can't vote republican based on social issues.

As it stands, they republican party (not the people who vote that way or anything) is incompetent and refuses to acknowledge or admit to being wrong on social issues and instead resorts to blaming Obama for "gifting minorities" instead of actually acknowledging what their platform used to be all about (See goldwater, paul, etc...).
The problem is that it is ultimately the Republican primary voters who have been pushing for socially conservative candidates.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APlotdevice View Post
The problem is that it is ultimately the Republican primary voters who have been pushing towards socially conservative candidates.
I think that will be their biggest challenge: How to divorce themselves from the nutjobs without losing the social moderates. Unfortunately for them, there are a lot of social nutjobs in the Republican party.

Abortion is here to stay.

DADT is history and the integration of our military will only alienate voters from the "God Hates Fags" group.

US wide gay marriage is only a couple of years away.

Teaching kids about sex is healthy,

Etc, etc.

Until the Republicans can get their heads around these facts, they will continue to lose young voters.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
If they dropped anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage and ran on pro-state rights, they'd win the next presidential election. Many people actually are for smaller government, but simply can't vote republican based on social issues.

As it stands, they republican party (not the people who vote that way or anything) is incompetent and refuses to acknowledge or admit to being wrong on social issues and instead resorts to blaming Obama for "gifting minorities" instead of actually acknowledging what their platform used to be all about (See goldwater, paul, etc...).
Agreed.

They kept reminiscing about the Reagan era, and seems to the source for their agenda.
Well, that is (ancient) history. This election pretty much proves the Republicans have not changed with the times.

IMHO, for the Republicans to survive (and I hope they do, 2 party's is bad, 1 is worse), they will have to burn their bridges, destroy it all and build from scratch.
This includes renouncing all extremest like Rush, Hannity, Palin, others.

Agree to taxes/ fee changes in both directions (and burn the Norquist pledge)

Accept that government it good, but work to streamline it (the bureaucracy is bad, killing US growth). Historically Republican administrations are the worst in expanding government. Why?

Truly balance the budget in FIVE years. I hate these 10 year predictions, those are nearly worthless.

Highly restrict lobbyists (we do need them)


Actually, would be great if we can just banish both parties, as the founding fathers had deep distrust of political parties.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
Agree, but I fully expect some tiny increase across board resulting from changes in tax code and such.
How is that on Obama then? That would result from compromise.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:39 AM   #14
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How is that on Obama then? That would result from compromise.
Because the right has to blame Obama for every problem they ever had in their life and completely ignore any time he accomplishes anything good.

It's like a kindergarden disagreement.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:57 PM   #15
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Were the far right wing nuts in danger of voting for Obama? No. Why not go for the moderate vote? It just makes too much sense.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Because the right has to blame Obama for every problem they ever had in their life and completely ignore any time he accomplishes anything good.

It's like a kindergarden disagreement.
Funny coming from a party that blames Bush at every turn.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 06:06 PM   #16
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The Republicans have only won the popular vote in one US presidential election since 1988, and that one was preceded by a speech from Mr Bin Laden (and Bush was ahead on security).
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 06:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Funny coming from a party that blames Bush at every turn.
It's just that Dubya is such an easy target...

----------

As long as the far right agenda is driven by Shock Radio/news and myopia, I don't see the Republicans coming back. A move toward the center and rationality is long overdue. It feels like the extreme swing leading up to the convention puts republican candidates into a box that limits them in a general election.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:29 PM   #18
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A party that represents ~30-40% of voters isn't going away anytime soon.

Nor should it.

Even if they didn't call themselves "Republicans" they'd still be the same bloc, just one with a different name.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:33 PM   #19
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A party that represents ~30-40% of voters isn't going away anytime soon.

Nor should it.

Even if they didn't call themselves "Republicans" they'd still be the same bloc, just one with a different name.
I agree they aren't going anywhere, but by being viewed as extreme, they limit their ability to grow their base, and that is what they need to focus on to maintain relevance and viability in elections.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:49 PM   #20
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I agree they aren't going anywhere, but by being viewed as extreme, they limit their ability to grow their base, and that is what they need to focus on to maintain relevance and viability in elections.
The only question IMO is, do they do a better job of disguising their politics in order to sell themselves to a wider audience. Or do they actually shift their plank back towards the center?

For while I suspect that they'll try to get by on cosmetic changes only and see how well they do in the 2014 midterm elections.

But I doubt the old guard is convinced that they've become irrelevant. And I suspect they will fight long and hard to maintain their say in the party.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:57 PM   #21
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The only question IMO is, do they do a better job of disguising their politics in order to sell themselves to a wider audience. Or do they actually shift their plank back towards the center?

For while I suspect that they'll try to get by on cosmetic changes only and see how well they do in the 2014 midterm elections.

But I doubt the old guard is convinced that they've become irrelevant. And I suspect they will fight long and hard to maintain their say in the party.
But the old guard will have to give way at some point to the new young republicans, and I have to believe those will move toward the center. Politically, we've seen this happen before where one party becomes extreme and has to move back toward the center to re-energize the base.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
Asking opinions from this well informed crowd. Will post my though later.

What is YOUR opinion of Republicans future? Explain WHY its either Doomed or be Resurrected?

Reminder:
Obama ran on platform of raising taxes/fees on almost everyone (Edit: I expect everyone will have a very small increase) and had very slow economic recovery, yet was reelected. By all rights he should have lost, yet won big (8 of 9 battleground states won. Democratic gains in House and Senate).

Discuss
Both the Republican and Democrat parties are doomed unless they take care of our nation first. With the enormous federal budgets, how long do you think that our economy can survive? Meanwhile, while we spend our time arguing with each other instead of questioning their actions, both the Republicans and Democrats have more time to tax us all day, spend all night, and to give themselves pay raises.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:06 PM   #23
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Both the Republican and Democrat parties are doomed unless they take care of our nation first. With the enormous federal budgets, how long do you think that our economy can survive?
There are times when I almost wish we would go off the Fiscal Cliff to give America a jolt of "wake up, we got a problem". Unfortunately, I think that would be like robbing the bank because you have an overdraft. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but on further reflection...
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:24 PM   #24
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That's the talking point in the media right now, but thats not the truth. He's trying to keep the middle class tax cut, which affects 98% of the population.
Several of the taxes in Obamacare phase in over the next couple years and will directly affect the middle class and the poor:
http://www.businessinsider.com/here-...e-taxes-2012-7
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:32 PM   #25
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Several of the taxes in Obamacare phase in over the next couple years and will directly affect the middle class and the poor:
http://www.businessinsider.com/here-...e-taxes-2012-7
How do taxes on incomes or dividends over $200,000 affect the poor?

Do you think the poor sock away over $2,500 in pre-tax funds for future medical needs?

Do you think the poor have "cadillac health care plans"?

How exactly do you think most of the middle class and especially the poor will be affected by the taxes you just mentioned?

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