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Old Nov 22, 2012, 06:57 PM   #76
2IS
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Paying 5-10% of purchase price for something which will not demonstrate commensurate value for the person paying the money is pretty stupid.
Good thing we're talking about paying 5-10% the purchase price for something that will.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 07:45 PM   #77
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Good thing we're talking about paying 5-10% the purchase price for something that will.
In other words, it's worth it because it's worth it. Brilliant. People can give their advice on this but the arguments in favour of it aren't universally applicable. There are people for whom the cost outweighs the benefit, plain and simple.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:49 PM   #78
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In your distorted words, maybe.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:57 PM   #79
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So much wrong in this thread.

Is 2GB enough? Sure, it will work at the disadvantage of hitting your "Flash drive," also known as an SSD. And you will be hitting it, a modern OS plus browser and flash games?

Oh yes, you will run past your 2GB and starting paging in (a given) and out. The good news, since you have an SSD you likely won't feel the impact of running out of RAM. This is why many say it works fine, it truly will, but it will be at the cost of your SSD.

Remember though, 2GB is enough for TODAY. The standard amount of RAM on most machines out there is at minimum 4GB. Since you are buying today, I would suggest you hit that standard for longevity.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 09:42 PM   #80
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It always starts like this. First they say "hey, Im just gonna use 2gb", sometimes they say "I wont even use 2GB daily". They even say "I will never use more then 2GB, I got this under control" Before you know it, they are using 4GB and then 8Gb and cant stop anymore…
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 09:57 PM   #81
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:53 PM   #82
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Confusing stuff, RAM usage in Lion/Mountain lion.

I've been using Windows as my primary OS since 98 (with a foray into Linux for a year or two), and having ordered my first mac (2012 MBA i5/4gb/128), I am a bit confused, and frankly scared that 4gb will not be enough for relatively basic tasks.

In Windows, the system releases RAM as it can, and 4gb is more than enough for most people who aren't using professional tier programs. Everything I have read about the last 2 versions of OSX though have made it sound like 4gb is the bare minimum to do anything, and that it is likely that 4gb machines will be crippled by the next version. I know that the SSD helps with swapping, but still.

I would have little problem spending $100 to upgrade to 8gb, even though this is far too much for 4gb of ram. The thing is that with sales, it would cost around $300-400 more. If I order from Amazon, I pay near-as-makes-no-difference $1000 for the model I mentioned above. If I order from Apple, which I have to in order to add the 8gb of ram option, it costs $1300 plus tax (I don't know about shipping), so call it $1400. A lot to pay for a $20 stick of ram they permanently affixed to the motherboard.

Someone calm my fear and tell me I only need 4gb as long as the purpose of the computer will be limited to productivity, media consumption, and internet browsing, and will only infrequently touch final cut pro or any of the adobe suites. I will be upgrading in ~2 years or so, probably on Broadwell release, because this is not my main system.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:02 PM   #83
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Someone calm my fear and tell me I only need 4gb as long as the purpose of the computer will be limited to productivity, media consumption, and internet browsing, and will only infrequently touch final cut pro or any of the adobe suites. I will be upgrading in ~2 years or so, probably on Broadwell release, because this is not my main system.
Sounds like you already decided 2gb is enough.

For most of that you could just use an iPad.

Trying to offload a machine with 2gb in 2 years or so (when 2gb is pretty useless) is going to be a lot harder to do than offloading one with 4gb.

I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a Windows machine with less than 4gb either (with 8-16gb being the "sweet spot" if you have RAM slots you an swap modules into). RAM is too cheap to skimp on.

All our new work machines (windows), we are ordering with 8gb (standard office use) or 16gb (power user) due to the minimal price premium and extended usable life more ram brings (and for those thinking "you could upgrade it later!" - well, if the end user is without the computer for 30 minutes while we upgrade, and the IT guy is spending 30 minutes doing it, plus procurement ordering it, etc - we've probably spent at least $100-$200 on the ram upgrade in wasted employee time even if the ram was free. so we don't do upgrades, we order appropriate spec for life of the machine)

With RAM so cheap, developers will make use of it.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 05:35 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by LeandrodaFL View Post
It always starts like this. First they say "hey, Im just gonna use 2gb", sometimes they say "I wont even use 2GB daily". They even say "I will never use more then 2GB, I got this under control" Before you know it, they are using 4GB and then 8Gb and cant stop anymore…
Who are "they", because i've never heard them...
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 05:50 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Carouser View Post
In other words, it's worth it because it's worth it. Brilliant. People can give their advice on this but the arguments in favour of it aren't universally applicable. There are people for whom the cost outweighs the benefit, plain and simple.

Spot on..

The RAM argument will go on and on and on, and people eventually start to take it personally, but the pure fact is this.

If you believe it is worth buying additional RAM and you use more RAM intensive programs then it's worth it.

If you don't think the additional cost is worth it, and you don't use RAM intensive programs then it isn't worth it and you likely will never even worry about it again.

The other thing that makes me laugh on this forum is how so many people talk about trading their mac up every year for the latest and greatest (nothing wrong with that per se), however they then bang on about how you need to get the most RAM installed to future proof it....for 12 months...

Thats why I don't take much notice of these arguments for "needing" additional RAM.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 03:06 PM   #86
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Well i ended up getting a 2010 11" with 1.6ghz C2D, 4gb and 128gb.

Very happy with and i'm sure my wife will be.

Thanks for all the advice it was very helpful in deciding what to get.
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 03:47 PM   #87
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Hi, I am planning on getting a MacBook Air for my wife for christmas and i'm not sure if 2gb of ram will be enough or if i should get one with 4gb.

She will only be using it for web browsing and playing games like family farm and dragon city on facebook.

Will 2gb be enough?

If i got one with 2gb and it wasn't enough can i upgrade it or is it not replaceable?

Thanks.
4Gb is not enough 10.8 love memory
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:24 PM   #88
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....My girlfriends PC is still running Windows XP and she sees no reason to change. Women tend to have more important things to worry about!!
Wow. Yeah, women have no concept of those big, scary computers with all their buttons and lights. All I know is that when I push that one button when I see the Zappos picture, then the UPS guy brings me shoes. It's like magic or something.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:42 PM   #89
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Wow. Yeah, women have no concept of those big, scary computers with all their buttons and lights. All I know is that when I push that one button when I see the Zappos picture, then the UPS guy brings me shoes. It's like magic or something.
I like how you took offense to his post even though he never said anything even remotely insulting.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 11:34 AM   #90
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What are these "applications" you keep mentioning? The OP clearly states that his wife wants to browse the web. 2GB will get her through 3-5 years of web browsing.
Agree - I'm somewhat amazed at how fast this 2010 base model is/feels for surfing the web. 2GB/64GB, 1.4GHz C2D
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 05:48 PM   #91
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Agree - I'm somewhat amazed at how fast this 2010 base model is/feels for surfing the web. 2GB/64GB, 1.4GHz C2D
Yes, but RAM is a status symbol for a lot of people on Mac Rumors, most dont actually understand what it does, they just think that getting more is better.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:48 PM   #92
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Web browsing is probably the most resource hog compared to games. Open a few tabs in safari or chrome and look at your memory consumption. Games dont stand a change against today's browsers.

4 GB minimum is the standard for today's OS and Applications. Don't listen to no one. When your computer lag's and stutters, the people who suggest 2 GB won't be there to magically increase your RAM.

Go with 4 GB and surf in peace.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 08:21 PM   #93
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Yes, but RAM is a status symbol for a lot of people on Mac Rumors, most dont actually understand what it does, they just think that getting more is better.
Yes, those who think 2GB is enough for a modern OS, programs and web content certainly have no idea how RAM is utilized. I'm sure that isn't you though, since you know what it does. No matter though, the OP made the right choice going with 4GB
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 12:07 AM   #94
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After upgrading to ML, my Air uses about 1.7 GB memory after a clean reboot with only Finder (and iStat Menus) running. So I'd say no, 2 GB isn't anywhere near enough.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 12:15 AM   #95
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Agree - I'm somewhat amazed at how fast this 2010 base model is/feels for surfing the web. 2GB/64GB, 1.4GHz C2D
Although it’s not quite the same, my samsung galaxy tab mantains four chrome tabs on 1gb
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 12:26 AM   #96
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If it was 2003 it would be plenty. Here in 2013 I roll with 32gb on my work iMac
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:47 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Bez59 View Post
Well i ended up getting a 2010 11" with 1.6ghz C2D, 4gb and 128gb.

Very happy with and i'm sure my wife will be.

Thanks for all the advice it was very helpful in deciding what to get.
A very good decision, OP, you and your wife are on the safe side now.
I am a casual user. My 11" MBA late 2010 runs fine with 2GB RAM as far as internet, Pages etc is concerned. But I do see beachballs in iPhoto.
So my upgrade, probably next year, would have at least 4GB RAM.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:21 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Bez59 View Post
Hi, I am planning on getting a MacBook Air for my wife for christmas and i'm not sure if 2gb of ram will be enough or if i should get one with 4gb.

She will only be using it for web browsing and playing games like family farm and dragon city on facebook.

Will 2gb be enough?

If i got one with 2gb and it wasn't enough can i upgrade it or is it not replaceable?

Thanks.
No it is not! Trust me I have 2GB here and it is a pain to work with.

If you just open one App it is okay, but today even Browsers are heavy bloatware.

Steam + Tf2 alone no problem!
Photoshop alone no problem!
Chrome alone no problem!

Two of them together possible, but only with much involvement of the HD

Three of them, forget it!


And since today's programmers put everything in the Ram get more of it now, you will be happier in the long run.

All that assuming you want to keep your device 2-3 years minimum.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:24 AM   #99
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Well i ended up getting a 2010 11" with 1.6ghz C2D, 4gb and 128gb.

Very happy with and i'm sure my wife will be.
Good call. I had the exact same configuration before upgrading to the 2012 Air. It worked very well for me, and "the old ball and chain" (luckily she doesn't read these forums) inherited my 2010 Air. She loves it as well, and it works very well for her needs (surf, mail, storing camera photos, occasional photoshopping, listening to music and such). Only reason I upgraded was I needed to work from it every now and then, running stuff like photoshop, flash, illustrator, and like 10 other more light-weight programs in parallell, then the CPU / memory wasn't quite enough.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:57 AM   #100
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NO.Not NEARLY enough. Unless you run Windows 98. Then, yes, it is enough.
My first Windows 98 machine had 16MB (yes, MB!) of RAM! Ran great!

My wife uses an old Windows laptop of mine for just those sorts of things (In addition to email, word processing, powerpoint, basic office stuff). It runs a 2.0GHz Dual Core CPU, 2GB of RAM and a 120GB spinning hard drive. Basically how it came out of the box several years ago. Running Windows 7. She doesn't have any issues with it at all, it's plenty.

BUT... and here's the big ol' but.... A) It wasn't $750, even new, so throwing it away and getting something new wouldn't bother me too much. B) I can upgrade the RAM any time, easily, and pretty cheaply if ever it became an issue.

In the end, take it from a guy with 16 gigs of RAM in his machine, you don't NEED it. You CAN get away with 2 gigs right now, with the software right now. In the future, things may change. And therein lies the problem. How much longevity are you planning to get out of this machine? Are you comfortable spending $750 on a machine that might not play nicely with the next release of OS X? (I mean it'll run it, but what if the next release uses more RAM, leaving less for your apps, including some flash hungry facebook games?) Having an SSD means spilling over into virtual memory won't be AS slow as a spinning notebook drive, but still pretty slow.

Also, officially per Apple specs, the original 2008 MacBook Air only supports Lion, it does not support Mountain Lion. That's a 2GB RAM model from just 4 years ago. That leads me to believe that with the same amount of RAM, and only a faster CPU and GPU to your advantage on newer models, you could realistically only expect to run Mountain Lion. It wouldn't blow my mind that it could run the next version of OS X, but I wouldn't EXPECT it.

If this were a MBP the conversation would be different. Because right now 2 gigs is plenty. The issue, again, is what it's gonna be like 2 or 3 years from now.
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