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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:17 PM   #76
Hakone
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I'm in the market for a desktop... this Dell XPS is getting long in the tooth.

Should I wait about 2-3months after the release of the iMac to resolve any manufacturing and assembly issues or should it be 'rather good' upon initial release?

Since they've become so thin, I wonder if Applecare will cost as much as with the MacBooks.

I love the 27", but it's going to be a bit hard to make a $2k purchase at the same time as paying off the Holiday season bills.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:18 PM   #77
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I'm buying it

but not that happy they dumped the OD. Sure you can get stuff on line, but at what cost in time. Yesterday I downloaded a game from the app store, taking 3 and a half hours. For some reason it screwed up and the error message said delete and reload. 3.5 more hours slowing down everything that uses wifi and it works. That doesn't happen with a CD/DVD, and what if the net is down when you need it. Still, since apple understandably never went with Bluray and I have some of those, I now have the option to buy a blu-ray/DVD burner, find a place for it on the desk, and if it breaks, I don't have to take the whole frigging machine back to the store. And those who don't use them are even happier.

Don't care about how thin, but the new screen looks even better than the previous generation and I suspect I will really like the fusion drive. All in all a very nice upgrade.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:29 PM   #78
katanna
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Originally Posted by wmikulic View Post
No it isn't the same, because when the original iMac didn't include a floppy drive, it did include another removable medium type - the optical drive. But this time, the optical drive has been dropped but nothing has replaced it.

When the new iMac won't boot off the internal system, what are you supposed to boot off of? Does the new iMac come with OSX Mountain Lion preinstalled on an enclosed USB thumb drive?
But it DOES include something to replace it, as I outlined in my post you can now do almost everything you used to do with an optical drive via the internet. No you can't play DVDs but you CAN download the movie from iTunes, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, etc. No you can't install Photoshop via disk, but you can download it. If something goes wrong with the operating system, there is by default an extra partition that you can boot from that can reinstall the OS. These "problems" have already been solved!

I am starting to understand Phil Schiller's "For those of you stuck in the past" comment...

EDIT: I wasn't trying to be mean with that last line, my point was that your concerns are based on the past 5 years instead of the NEXT 5 years. Apple is NOT a "past 5 years" company, they want to innovate and move forward, which you can't do if your mind is stuck in the past.

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Originally Posted by Hakone View Post
I'm in the market for a desktop... this Dell XPS is getting long in the tooth. Should I wait about 2-3months after the release of the iMac to resolve any manufacturing and assembly issues or should it be 'rather good' upon initial release?
If you have the money, I vote buy it. If there are any manufacturing issues Apple will [should] replace/fix it for you. (They are generally known for having a "make it right with the customer" attitude when it comes to fixing hardware issues.)

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:30 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by wmikulic View Post
No it isn't the same, because when the original iMac didn't include a floppy drive, it did include another removable medium type - the optical drive.
You are fixated on a particular drive implementation technology rather than functionality. Those aren't necessarily the same. If can boot off the Internet, USB , Firewire, and Thunderbolt there is practically no loss in functionality.

You will need something outside of the Mac to boot. Whether that is a disk, internet connection, or external drive isn't a huge difference.


Quote:
When the new iMac won't boot off the internal system, what are you supposed to boot off of? Does the new iMac come with OSX Mountain Lion preinstalled on an enclosed USB thumb drive?
Why is Apple doing the work or not an issue of functionality? If you want a USB thumb drive; make one. There is a Apple utility that will do it for you to whatever kind of USB , Firewire, SATA , etc drive you want to use.

For example, if you have a external HDD using for a Time machine drive then before initial usage as a target. Create a small partition and create a "rescue system image there". Make the rest of the disk a Time Machine target. That way if your internal drive completely fails you have a FULL backup recovery system. In a rescue, plug in the HDD and boot off of it.

If want to split that work over two devices ( e.g., a TM target and USB Flash drive) that is fine too. Note that if you have a major internal failure it is far more critical that you have a back-up rather than some rescue disk with none of your data on it. That is missing the forest for a single tree.


The default if totally unprepared and Apple is suppose to solve all your problems for you is to boot off the internet. That isn't what they'd recommend, but is the minimalist work by user solution.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:53 PM   #80
gwest
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Optical Drives

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmikulic View Post
My son has been using a first generation Mac mini and needed a new computer. As soon as the "new" iMac was announced with no optical, we went to the nearest Apple store and bought the current iMac. There's just too many school assignments where the product has to be turned in on CD or DVD and I'm a believer the optical should be part of the computer. I've owned iMacs since the original tube screened one, and not once has a desktop's thickness been an issue for me. What a great business model, remove features so people have to buy add-ons. Maybe they should remove the hard drive/SSD so they can charge extra for that too?
It's not an attempt to soak you for more money- that's a very conspiracy-theory way of looking at it. The need for drives today is minimal- by the time you buy your next Mac they'll probably be obsolete. Having an external drive is much smarter anyway- these drives are the first things to die in a machine and are far easier to replace by simply plugging a new one into the USB slot.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:57 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by wmikulic View Post
Yes they do, when they're for film class. And many non-film classes and other projects require submission on optical medium. And if you think you're going to change the way one of the largest public school systems does things, you're not too bright or are looking to become very frustrated.
50 dollars .. Get an external drive.. End of story...
Most people dont use optical drive... Usb flash is much much better!

The cost savings from not including optical drive has gone into other things like .. A better screen. Faster processor, much better graphics card....
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:15 PM   #82
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apple not selling any imacs until the new ones arrive must hurt the bottom line. i wonder why they did not have a plan for this other than not selling imacs at all
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:17 PM   #83
ctdonath
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Originally Posted by Jetson View Post
NOT ONE COMPANY puts commercial content on USB sticks, but on CDs and DVDs.
Why put it on USB sticks when practically the first thing any copy on physical media is going to do is download the latest version via Internet?

Only* purpose of computer-oriented physical media for distribution today is really massive data capacity needs (rare) and to give customers the base sense they bought something.

I haven't purchased software on physical media for years. While anecdote != data, that's where most of the customer base either is now or will be soon (and could use the nudge).

(* - it's one sentence, not an encyclopedic tome on the subject.)
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:18 PM   #84
CWallace
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The only time I use the optical drive on my iMac is to rip a DVD for iTunes and I expect an external unit will do that quicker, anyway, so...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:18 PM   #85
deconstruct60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmikulic View Post
Yes they do, when they're for film class.
Film classes are a corner case. They are not representative of classes in general. The overwhelming majority of students in school don't have film classes.


Quote:
And many non-film classes and other projects require submission on optical medium.
For 10 page papers and common homework passages even a CD-ROM is gross overkill in terms of storage capacity.

Quote:
And if you think you're going to change the way one of the largest public school systems does things, you're not too bright or are looking to become very frustrated.
I know several school systems that use hosted gmail/google drive solutions so that teachers and students can exchange files without any physical devices for the vast majority of assignments. Almost all of them are likely achieving better educational outcomes than your " too big to change" largest public school system.

I'm not frustrated. I'm amazed at the narrow mindedness of it all. 20 years ago I was involved in teaching CS classes where all of the submissions were done electronically. Here it is 20 years later and folks are arguing for physical manifestations of submissions of electronic content. Holy Cow. You got horseshoeing and buggy making classes in that largest school system too ?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:19 PM   #86
FuNGi
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Originally Posted by Variant View Post
I can't for the life of me understand why they made it thinner (while using it you'll never notice), rather than getting rid of the chin (staring right at you while using the machine).
Thinner and 20% smaller footprint. It's less materials and a better design. Period. Allot of people will notice the footprint when they move it and use it in offices/stores where customers walk around both sides of the computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmoCopus View Post
Thinner design, less materials, lighter, cheaper shipping cost, no optical drive ..shouldn't all this add up to a lower price or at least the same rather that more expensive?
Design and efficiency ain't free.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:19 PM   #87
ctdonath
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Originally Posted by freddiecable View Post
apple not selling any imacs until the new ones arrive must hurt the bottom line. i wonder why they did not have a plan for this other than not selling imacs at all
Insightful question I've wondered and not seen addressed anywhere.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:20 PM   #88
Phx08
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
Ok. So, why would Apple even consider giving a discount on any of their products over the last several years during all their Black Friday events? Perhaps they see this as a "smart" business move on the biggest shopping day of the year.

I don't think a product's newness has anything to do with their decision.
It probably has more to do with their projected sales for a given product.

Apple can afford not to give any discounts, and offering them still gives them a generous profit margin.
Maybe they figure it is the "smarter" thing to do.

Or maybe they really want to spread Christmas magic around the world.
It really depends, i'm sure theyve been selling these things at equilibrium price for a while. I doubt they would decrease the price (thus increasing demand) when they are already having supply chain issues with the new products.

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:24 PM   #89
ctdonath
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
I'm amazed at the narrow mindedness of it all. 20 years ago I was involved in teaching CS classes where all of the submissions were done electronically. Here it is 20 years later and folks are arguing for physical manifestations of submissions of electronic content. Holy Cow.
Bump that. I've taught CS classes for 5 years, and only accepted non-online submissions as expedient solutions to logistical connectivity problems. "Digital dropboxes" should be the norm now, as we're wrapping up 2012. Even submitting a film-school movie shouldn't require physical media (though an accepted alternative); burning & Sneaker-netting a Blu-Ray would take longer than uploading to a department submission server.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:26 PM   #90
Phx08
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Originally Posted by madrag View Post
I said that just some countries will probably get it, what's that contrary to your statement?

You're saying that the USA will have plenty, ok, but I'm not at the USA, and so I would like every country to have plenty.

Go back and read what you wrote. Contrary to your

Quote:
Originally Posted by madrag View Post
"....but maybe just for a small number of countries and small number of iMacs available"
..Small number of countries, with USA falling within that small number of countries sum, however, not having a small number of iMacs..we'll have plenty...thus contrary.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:39 PM   #91
mpainesyd
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IMac lacks optical drive

How about an external hard drive with blue-ray dvd burner, usb3 ports, card reader ... Connected by Thunderbolt?
Beats having to reach around the back of the iMac.
Apparently one exists although there are no ordering or price details
http://www.sunix.com.tw/cc/en/e-DM/2...t_dock%20.html
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:43 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by freddiecable View Post
apple not selling any imacs until the new ones arrive must hurt the bottom line. i wonder why they did not have a plan for this other than not selling imacs at all
Computers represent ~25-30% of Apple’s revenue stream.
Desktop computers represent ~20% of that, assuming the iMac has 80% of desktop sales the iMac only represents ~5% of revenue. You’re also assuming that the people who were going to buy an iMac are going to look at alternative vendors, some might, but I doubt enough to markedly impact revenue. There will be a drop, but it will be offset by a spike in the new year.

You can still buy the previous generation iMac, just not online through apple.com. My guess would be with the holiday season coming up there simply aren’t enough OEMs to handle the demand of electronics manufacturers this holiday season. The new Nexus’, the Kindle family, the Surface, the new iPads, the Wii U you’re talking maybe 250,000,000+ devices this holiday quarter which is an utterly staggering number. If Apple had to use the existing iMac production facility they’d need time to retool and get up to speed, even with China’s rapid adaptation of manufacturing lines that’s still going to take weeks.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:51 PM   #93
Mike Valmike
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Originally Posted by wmikulic View Post
When the new iMac won't boot off the internal system, what are you supposed to boot off of?
You boot from the Recovery Partition, which has been a part of Macs since Lion. Or, if you bought a Mac refreshed June 2011 or later, you have a FURTHER backup option if the actual HDD/SSD hardware is busted and you can't use Recovery Partition: OS X Internet Recovery, which is in ROM on the motherboard, and as long as you have an available network connection for your Mac, will allow you to boot in and rebuild/reformat or use Disk Utility or whatever you need to do, the way we used to do when booting off a floppy... then off a CD-ROM... then off a DVD.

I know, I know. I wigged out too at the idea of no removable media drive for exactly this reason: How were we supposed to revive a system with a failing boot drive? Apple introduced the Recovery Partition late in the Snow Leopard cycle and we were still like "Well that saves us from virus/corruption/etc issues but what about drive failure?" Then the Internet Recovery in ROM came out starting with the Sandy Bridge Airs and Minis and there wasn't really any more room to complain about this issue... other than the iMac still not having it because it took a year and a g** d***ed half to be updated, but meantime the 2011 iMac still had its optical drive so oh well. Honestly, in terms of at least the basic requirements for an admin to be able to keep their hardware up and running, Apple has covered the bases without there having to be an optical drive anymore. You want to argue having one for usage, that's fine. Some of us burn discs and some don't. (I just use an external blu-ray burner now.) But the argument that lack of optical drive makes it impossible to overcome a boot failure is no longer in effect.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:13 PM   #94
kgian
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Just bring on the new iMacs already! I am anxious for a tear down.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:13 PM   #95
djrobsd
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Yay!! If they hurry up, I can return my Thunderbolt Display and Mac Mini and trade up to the 27 inch iMac.

Pros: Much more computing power for the same $$$
Cons: No more one connection dock for my 15" RMBP

Still, I think it's worth it, I think I may even use the RMBP less and end up selling it on ebay and just getting a Macbook Air for my mobile computing needs.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:22 PM   #96
Ed A.
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Originally Posted by aprofetto8 View Post
I used an optical drive once. In 1994.
I use an optical drive every time I do a video production project for a client. They all still want a disc.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:26 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
Bump that. I've taught CS classes for 5 years, and only accepted non-online submissions as expedient solutions to logistical connectivity problems. "Digital dropboxes" should be the norm now, as we're wrapping up 2012. Even submitting a film-school movie shouldn't require physical media (though an accepted alternative); burning & Sneaker-netting a Blu-Ray would take longer than uploading to a department submission server.
Film school is not reality because nobody really cares about keeping a school submission "secure". The future still requires duping a digital master onto physical drives and postal mailing or sneaker-netting them to clients, networks, and sat uplink providers because it is an easy way to guarantee more security over your product submission.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:29 PM   #98
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I do worry that there will be big issues with the new iMac, I hope not, but I have that feeling in my gut
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:39 PM   #99
Lancer
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Thanks for the good news but its still going to be tight to get a BTO 27" before Christmas.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:47 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Jetson View Post
Whining???

People still need to use optical media to transfer commercial content. NOT ONE COMPANY puts commercial content on USB sticks, but on CDs and DVDs. They are NOT obsolete.

Your solution is that we shell out additional money for an unsightly stand alone optical drive so that our super expensive "all in one" computer now can access commercial content.

It makes no sense, except that you are trying to justify Apple's decision here.
Actually, if you use Google (that is a search engine) to search for companies that provide commercial content on usb drives, you may be shocked to see that your all caps bold statement that "NOT ONE COMPANY" puts content on usb sticks is indeed, an outright lie.
To be honest, I wouldn't do business with a company that was so ass-backwards that they were still providing media via such a quaint medium.. Fortunately, I haven't seen this in years as, despite your claims, most companies went the flash drive distribution route some 5+ years ago.

Last edited by balamw; Nov 21, 2012 at 10:07 AM. Reason: insults removed
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