Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:31 AM   #76
steve119
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Scotland, land of the haggis
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
It's unfortunate Apple wants to keep its toys to itself all the time. Airplay, Facetime, iMessage, they keep coming up with these great communication protocols but instead of opening them up to 3rd party implementations, they use them to lock you further into their ecosystem. Open alternatives that are device/vendor agnostic are quite welcome. It's too bad that often times though, Apple simply refuses to implement these (though often they also do) basically causing fragmentation in the market.
Yeap, and it works for them, apparently imessage was partly responsible for txt messaging deline for the first time.

I mean why would apple want to lose money in standardising their products?
steve119 is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:35 AM   #77
840quadra
Moderator
 
840quadra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Land of Free outdoor Freezers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
I didn't knew that Airplay supported bidirectional flow of data that is not media
The use of the term Bidirectional is a bit nebulous. Two way flow of data is an obvious requirement for such a service to even work, without it there would be sync issues, and other noticeable types of lag depending on what the purpose of the application in use.

Regardless of that, I totally agree that AirPlay's implementation of remote screen feedback is limited in it's current version and I would like to see more myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
It's unfortunate Apple wants to keep its toys to itself all the time. Airplay, Facetime, iMessage, they keep coming up with these great communication protocols but instead of opening them up to 3rd party implementations, they use them to lock you further into their ecosystem. Open alternatives that are device/vendor agnostic are quite welcome. It's too bad that often times though, Apple simply refuses to implement these (though often they also do) basically causing fragmentation in the market.<snip>
I am still waiting for Apple to make FaceTime an 'Open Standard' as proclaimed by Steve Jobs during the keynote showing the service. I am not sure if Apple has forgotten about this promise, or hoped the public forgot about it.

As it stands, I skype my non iOS contacts if I need video chat, however a more integrated application (either incorporate Skype into iOS, or open FaceTime) would be a better solution.

Telling Siri to Skype one of my contacts ends in failure .

Last edited by 840quadra; Nov 20, 2012 at 06:42 AM.
840quadra is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:38 AM   #78
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
 
KnightWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
Yeap, and it works for them, apparently imessage was partly responsible for txt messaging deline for the first time.
Yeah, iMessage is really going to hurt SMS, especially since Apple's market share of the entire cellphone market is right up there in the triple digits.

I have basically 3 people around me that I can iMessage. Others are using Android/WinMo/Dumb phones or don't have data plans on their iPhones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
I mean why would apple want to lose money in standardising their products?
I don't give a damn about Apple making/losing money. I'm not a shareholder. I'd every much like for the products I buy from Apple to be able to interoperate with devices from other vendors though.

Thank goodness, like I said, Apple still does implement open standards in a wide breadth of areas. It's just a few key areas they seem to lock theirs products to.
__________________
"What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others."
-- Pericles
KnightWRX is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:49 AM   #79
Monkeydude
macrumors member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Why should G. care

Quote:
Originally Posted by landroverz7 View Post
Google first update your youtube app and make it a universal app with support for iPhone 5 widescreen and ipad retina screens also fix the airplay and add background audio. After that you can think about your google devices.
Why should they even care about iOS? Latest marketshare-numbers give them 70%. With a "Google-AirPlay" they give one more reason to buy an android device. And btw: frankly I don't think it would be any problem for G. to release an iOS universal app for Youtube or a Maps-app. They just dont want to. And as we had (and on iOS<6.0 still have) a fully functioning app until recently, I think Apple is to blame here for taking that away from us.
Monkeydude is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:50 AM   #80
Mr.damien
Guest
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Apple didn't open source webkit out of the goodness of their heart. They had to because of the license (LGPL) on the KHTML code which is the basis of Webkit. Webkit is not an Apple born project, it was born and raised by the KDE project. Apple forked their code base to make WebKit.
You have nothing to backup your claim outside your hate for Apple.

Apple has a long history of open source software: Webkit, Calendar Server, LLVM, quicktime streaming server, GCD, Bonjour, amongst them.

A lot of them were Apple's own technology they put uder open source licence and usually in even more open licence than GPL (apache).

Not to say that you deliberately skip the part on the fact tha KHTML was almost not used anymore when Apple took it and bring it to mainstream...

But hey, Haters gonna hate.
  4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:50 AM   #81
Thunderhawks
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by na1577 View Post

Companies should spend more time innovating instead of competing for the sake of competing. How does Google plan to improve this concept?
Maybe they bought the rights to BETA and 8-track!
__________________
It's ready, when it's ready !
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
Thunderhawks is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:53 AM   #82
Kaibelf
macrumors 6502a
 
Kaibelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueParadox View Post
As long as I can watch TANGLED without a problem then count me in.

But seriously, how about a better desktop mirroring app to get around Apple's restrictions within 10.8 of mid-last Macs and onwards. Third party app 'Parrot' ain't so good.
Those restrictions are actually Intel's and the content providers. But don't let that stop you from blaming Apple for everything.
Kaibelf is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:54 AM   #83
Sandstorm
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Riga, Latvia
A good open standard is needed. When I upgrade my TV in the coming years, I will want a unit capable interacting with any platform. For example, I want all of my friends. not only the "special-ones" with Apple devices, to share something on my TV, if they want. It will NOT be Apple TV, because, knowing Apple, it will be super restricted and compatible only with Apple latest devices.

I'm fully into Apple ecosystem, I have MacBook Pro, iPad, iPhone 4S (waiting for my iPhone5 now) and Apple TV (3rd gen). But honestly I'm getting sick of these restrictions, walls and ever increasing nickel-and-diming. The worst part - even within Apple own ecosystem there are ridiculous restrictions and a bit older devices are intentionally being crippled. For example - I was unpleasantly surprised, that my friend with iPhone 4 could not play video to my Apple TV 3. Only audio, because video streaming "is not supported on this device". PATHETIC! I don't believe for a second, that iPhone 4 is not technically capable of sending a youtube video to Apple TV. This is simply an artificial restriction of older device. Mind you, a device you can still buy brand new from Apple today. I'm getting more and more pissed about Apple. The greed is gradually becoming THE defining characteristics of Apple. I was a happly "Apple tax" payer, because I knew my quality made device "will just work", will work for a long time and be supported for a long time. This is no longer true. Today, when I buy a new Apple product, I already see how in the near future it will be quickly made second-tier and then soon after dropped. For example, 1st gen iPad mini. Just wait and see, soon it will be very outdated and limited.

Sorry for the rant. As a long time loyal Apple user I just can't hold this in me anymore.
Sandstorm is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:54 AM   #84
princigalli
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Italy, Germany
Wasn't Apple TV a hobby project for Apple anyway? Didn't it stay a "hobby" for more than 6 years? Why would I ever give any money out to buy a hobby device when there are companies out there taking the question very seriously?
__________________
www.princigalli.com
princigalli is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 06:55 AM   #85
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wisdom mule sez: there are literally zero jungles in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
You have nothing to backup your claim outside your hate for Apple.
It took me literally 2 seconds to find this.

Wikipedia must hate Apple too, huh? Lying about such things. olol H8rz gon H8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post

Not to say that you deliberately skip the part on the fact tha KHTML was almost not used anymore when Apple took it and bring it to mainstream...
It's previous popularity (or lack thereof) doesn't change the fact that Webkit started its life as a GPL'ed technology. Hence the reason why they had to release it as an open standard. There's no hate going on here, genius. Just simple facts.
Renzatic is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:02 AM   #86
Bezetos
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: far away from an Apple store
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
Yeap, and it works for them, apparently imessage was partly responsible for txt messaging deline for the first time.
I've read something different: e-mails, Facebook and universal messengers like WhatsApp have caused a decline. My friends are actually not using iMessage anymore because why should they when they can use WhatsApp and send messages to all of their friends with smartphones?
Bezetos is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:08 AM   #87
steve119
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Scotland, land of the haggis
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Yeah, iMessage is really going to hurt SMS, especially since Apple's market share of the entire cellphone market is right up there in the triple digits.

I have basically 3 people around me that I can iMessage. Others are using Android/WinMo/Dumb phones or don't have data plans on their iPhones.



I don't give a damn about Apple making/losing money. I'm not a shareholder. I'd every much like for the products I buy from Apple to be able to interoperate with devices from other vendors though.

Thank goodness, like I said, Apple still does implement open standards in a wide breadth of areas. It's just a few key areas they seem to lock theirs products to.
Well in my country, I know loads of people who use iMessage.

I don't care that you don't care tbh, the fact is that apple is here to make money, and to think otherwise would make you a very daft individual. so again why would they damage their chances to make money from their own devices in order to open standards?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezetos View Post
I've read something different: e-mails, Facebook and universal messengers like WhatsApp have caused a decline. My friends are actually not using iMessage anymore because why should they when they can use WhatsApp and send messages to all of their friends with smartphones?
PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular? the beauty of iMessage is that you can leave it on and if that person doesnt have imessage then it will send as a normal txt.....its that integrated.
steve119 is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:17 AM   #88
samcraig
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
Well in my country, I know loads of people who use iMessage.

I don't care that you don't care tbh, the fact is that apple is here to make money, and to think otherwise would make you a very daft individual. so again why would they damage their chances to make money from their own devices in order to open standards?

----------



PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular? the beauty of iMessage is that you can leave it on and if that person doesnt have imessage then it will send as a normal txt.....its that integrated.


Here's what you're missing (in my opinion). If I am going to message someone - I don't want to have to worry about what device they have. So if it's a choice between iMessage and WhatsApp - which one am I going to use. And if I am not using Apple's implementation - they are spending a lot of money to "host" such a service that doesn't get used. If they opened it up to be cross device - then they would "own" the messaging space. The CUSTOMER no longer has to think about who they are sending a message to.

As for iMessage resorting to text messaging if someone doesn't have iMessage. Great. Only the best perk of iMessage is that it doesn't require a texting plan. So now you're potentially costing the person you're sending a message too (or yourself) for that message.

Again - another reason why I (for example) use WhatsApp and never iMessage. Not to mention WhatsApp hasn't gone down even remotely as iMessage. Seems more reliable than iMessage. And has more functionality than iMessage.

And the same for FaceTime. Don't use it. Same reason. I use Tango and/or Skype. And the perk for me besides not having to worry about what phone is on the other end - I can also do it with my current unlimited ATT plan over LTE.
samcraig is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:17 AM   #89
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
 
KnightWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.damien View Post
You have nothing to backup your claim outside your hate for Apple.
My claim of what ? Of Webkit being based on KHTML ? Yes, I can back it up, it's a very well known fact. Here's the Mailing list post on KDE's mailing lists for Apple's release of WebKit that talks of the changes they made in KHTML/KJS :

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=104196912316326&w=2

KHTML is a LGPL licensed library. The LGPL forces you to release the source code modifications you make to the library itself, but softens up the requirements for software linked against your library (a full-on GPL'ed library being linked to your project forces your project to also be licensed under the GPL).

Webkit being a direct modification of the KHTML codebase, Apple had no choice but to abide by the LGPL.

But what claims can't I back up here ? What hate ? Facts. Cold, unemotional facts. No love, no hate. Notice I haven't dug up the history of bad relations that occurred after this between the KDE project and Apple based on their failure to cooperate... another topic not related to open sourcing products or open standards, and thus off topic for this thread.

Ad hominems. Insults. Why can't you people just argue the arguments, not the posters ?
__________________
"What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others."
-- Pericles
KnightWRX is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:19 AM   #90
Bezetos
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: far away from an Apple store
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular?
I did not say that.

Quote:
(...) the beauty of iMessage is that you can leave it on and if that person doesnt have imessage then it will send as a normal txt.....its that integrated.
...but if I DON'T want to send a text message, I still have to use a separate app to send a message to a person without iMessage. So why not use that app all the time?
Bezetos is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:21 AM   #91
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
 
KnightWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
Well in my country, I know loads of people who use iMessage.

I don't care that you don't care tbh, the fact is that apple is here to make money, and to think otherwise would make you a very daft individual. so again why would they damage their chances to make money from their own devices in order to open standards?
Vendor lock-in a poor way of making money. It only really works when you hold a monopoly position on a market and then use lack of interoperability to artifically sustain it.

As a consumer, in a highly competitive market, closed standards that promote vendor lock-in hurt me. That is why I care. And that is why you should also care. Apple's bottom line doesn't come into play in our lives as non-shareholders and frankly, these little gimmicky closed standards aren't what is actually moving devices Apple sells.

I'll stick to promoting the use of interoperable open standards.
__________________
"What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others."
-- Pericles
KnightWRX is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:23 AM   #92
Dionte
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit
Send a message via ICQ to Dionte
Iluv open standards. They are the best.
__________________
Dionte is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:24 AM   #93
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
 
KnightWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
PARTLY I said

So because your friends don't use it then its not popular?
So because your friends use it then its popular?

Your anecdotal evidence does not trump anyone elses. And it doesn't change the facts : iMessage is not universal, it's not device agnostic, and thus it's of limited value. It's a great idea, a great implementation, it's just limited to Apple owning circles. Unless all your friends are Apple users and using Apple gear exclusively.
__________________
"What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others."
-- Pericles
KnightWRX is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:25 AM   #94
steve119
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Scotland, land of the haggis
Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Here's what you're missing (in my opinion). If I am going to message someone - I don't want to have to worry about what device they have. So if it's a choice between iMessage and WhatsApp - which one am I going to use. And if I am not using Apple's implementation - they are spending a lot of money to "host" such a service that doesn't get used. If they opened it up to be cross device - then they would "own" the messaging space. The CUSTOMER no longer has to think about who they are sending a message to.

As for iMessage resorting to text messaging if someone doesn't have iMessage. Great. Only the best perk of iMessage is that it doesn't require a texting plan. So now you're potentially costing the person you're sending a message too (or yourself) for that message.

Again - another reason why I (for example) use WhatsApp and never iMessage. Not to mention WhatsApp hasn't gone down even remotely as iMessage. Seems more reliable than iMessage. And has more functionality than iMessage.

And the same for FaceTime. Don't use it. Same reason. I use Tango and/or Skype. And the perk for me besides not having to worry about what phone is on the other end - I can also do it with my current unlimited ATT plan over LTE.
to be honest I do have unlimited text, so that is not an issue for me either way.

Sure!y eveyone has to have whatsapp on their phone, I have a few people on my phone with bricks so that solution is less of an option than iMessage.

At least I can group my texts, and it will send to imessage users and text without having to open a different app. I've never used whatsapp but does it allow you to do that?
steve119 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:29 AM   #95
irnchriz
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Scotland
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueParadox View Post
As long as I can watch TANGLED without a problem then count me in.

But seriously, how about a better desktop mirroring app to get around Apple's restrictions within 10.8 of mid-last Macs and onwards. Third party app 'Parrot' ain't so good.
You do know that this is a hardware feature and not an Apple limitation, that is why Airparrot is crap unless you have a kick ass spec mac
__________________
irnchriz is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:30 AM   #96
samcraig
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
to be honest I do have unlimited text, so that is not an issue for me either way.

Sure!y eveyone has to have whatsapp on their phone, I have a few people on my phone with bricks so that solution is less of an option than iMessage.

At least I can group my texts, and it will send to imessage users and text without having to open a different app. I've never used whatsapp but does it allow you to do that?

"In addition to basic messaging WhatsApp users can create groups, send each other unlimited images, video and audio media messages."

You can also send contacts via whatsapp and also map locations.
samcraig is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:34 AM   #97
steve119
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Scotland, land of the haggis
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
So because your friends use it then its popular?

Your anecdotal evidence does not trump anyone elses. And it doesn't change the facts : iMessage is not universal, it's not device agnostic, and thus it's of limited value. It's a great idea, a great implementation, it's just limited to Apple owning circles. Unless all your friends are Apple users and using Apple gear exclusively.
Who is trying to trump anyone? Its my opinion, if you don't like it then thats your problem.

I think its quite funny that you are throwing your toys out of the pram because my opinion differs from yours. I have a few apple iPhone users, friends and family that use it.

You have not answered my question neither.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to lie to make you feel better.
steve119 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:36 AM   #98
Elbon
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
It is not for Google TV, it is compatible with almost all smart TV's out there
How is that possible if it hasn't even been released yet?
Elbon is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:36 AM   #99
steve119
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Scotland, land of the haggis
Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
"In addition to basic messaging WhatsApp users can create groups, send each other unlimited images, video and audio media messages."

You can also send contacts via whatsapp and also map locations.
Ok but can you combine text messages with whats app, i.e. you have friends with old phones, and so you can send messages combined with whatsapp?

My argument evolves around ease of sending a message to both sets of users without switching from app to app and typing the same message?
steve119 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:37 AM   #100
Elbon
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Does any device apart of Apple's have Airplay?
Why does that matter? All of my Apple devices do, and I don't have any plans to buy an Android or other type of device in the near future.
Elbon is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC