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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:58 AM   #101
iceterminal
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It makes me sad every time some ...person... decides that his/her problem needs to be shouted out to the world here on MRForums. If you have a problem, and you feel its big enough, then take it to Apple. Sheesh.

Then they want to add "gate" to their title, as if that helps. Actually, it merely shines the light on just how un-original they really are.

If you say GULLIBLE slow enough, it will sound like "oranges".
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:02 AM   #102
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Kind of hilarious watching all of you get worked up about this.

A guy comes in here, sheds some light on the manufacturing process, and you all berate him.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:09 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Parise View Post
Kind of hilarious watching all of you get worked up about this.

A guy comes in here, sheds some light on the manufacturing process, and you all berate him.
The problem is that he hasn't shown any proof that he knows anything at all about the manufacturing process. He's just spouting what he thinks it is.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:11 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by iceterminal View Post
It makes me sad every time some ...person... decides that his/her problem needs to be shouted out to the world here on MRForums. If you have a problem, and you feel its big enough, then take it to Apple. Sheesh.

Then they want to add "gate" to their title, as if that helps. Actually, it merely shines the light on just how un-original they really are.

If you say GULLIBLE slow enough, it will sound like "oranges".
Dumbest post yet. OP wanted to discuss a potentially significant design flaw with the iPhone 5, which may or may not hold some level of validity at this stage. He made it pretty clear that he does not have a bent iPhone 5 himself.


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Originally Posted by iceterminal View Post
. If you have a problem, and you feel its big enough, then take it to Apple. Sheesh.
Last time I checked, this was a discussion forum for Apple products.

On the other hand, you've added nothing to this discussion except to attack OP personally.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:13 AM   #105
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Some people need to google the definition of forum and take a chill pill.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:52 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
I think the OP is trying to say that the particular aluminium design used in the iphone 5 is susceptible to deforming even under normal/reasonable use. The keywords here are "normal use".

Anyone outright laughing at the OP, given the dozens of other posts about this here and on other forums, are really just displaying their lack of objectively and herd-like mentality.
I understand what the OP is saying. It's nice that someone that seems to have some insight is taking the time to post. But when it comes down to it, a large company with a mass-produced, high-demand device took a shortcut or maybe didn't produce it to the best of what it could have been. This plays out over and over every day.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:07 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by iceterminal View Post
If you say GULLIBLE slow enough, it will sound like "oranges".
How many of you just did this?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:01 PM   #108
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Again:

To put it politely: You have no idea what you're talking about at all.

Please see post #67: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...6&postcount=67

In short: the op does not seem to be informed on the subject he's discussing

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
Unlike some people whose job it is to post on this forum, I just come in to find out about iProducts and complain if there are problems with those that I have. So you may or may not see me for long or short periods of time. Apparently I was in the market for an iPhone 5, but this bendgate thingy is giving me second thoughts. I do own a 3GS (and a lost iPhone 4) so I am familiar with iDevices to some extent.

Those that do own one, can you measure the diameter of the thickness near the edge where the volume button is? I think combined it is less than 2 millimeters. NOTHING 2 millimeters can withstand any force no matter how strong.
As an engineer I have to say that this is the least informed technical statement I have ever heard.

Just an FYI that little 2mm section can resist around 110 lbs of force, and when bending there is also the lower section, the back and the other side to consider.

Quote:
Someone calculated the pressure inside a coke bottle is enough to bend 2 millimeters thick of 6061 Aluminum. Regular 6061 is so soft you just won't believe it.
This is an incredibly silly and technically useless way of stating things which varries a lot based on temperature and how much you shake the bottle. It also depends on the coke bottle size.

Just to do the simple conversion we're talking of around 8.5 tons of force here for a fully shaken, hot, 2 liter bottle at the high end and zero at the low end for a cold unshaken bottle of any size.


Quote:
Do you know why the paint and the anodized stuff comes right off when you poke an iPhone 5? It is THAT soft.
Seriously you have no idea what you're talking about. The paint adhesion and molecular bonding of the anodizing has NOTHING to do with the material being soft. Also, did you not read my other post? Your phone would literally fall apart if made from less tempered alloy as it would crack at the corners and not bend like it's supposed to. It's made the way it's made for a reason.

Quote:
For 6061-T6, about 150 pounds of force for 2 millimeters. (in psi I think). Now this is only the edge, not the whole back. Unfortunately, the edge is what keeps the phone in that shape. A thin ply of aluminum sheet is VERY bendable unless it has that edge surrounding the phone. For analogy it is like holding a piece of paper, the other end will fall down due to gravity.

So with only 2 millimeters total of soft 6061 aluminum holding that shape, ALL iPhones 5 are susceptible to bending with light pressure (the SIM card may side may be a little stronger but that is also a weak spot). Only 6061-T6 is going to solve this problem, or another higher grade aluminum, but temporarily (some people are heavier than 150 pounds). You can't keep bending it back because sooner or later that thin layer of aluminum near the volume button will break (I saw some photos where that place broke too).

If you don't believe me, try it. Take an iPhone 4/4S and try to bend it. The glass and the stainless steel is so sturdy. Even plastic is sturdy (just bounces back). But Aluminum has memory. It is like bending a paperclip, it will stay in that shape, and if you bend it back, it will break eventually if you bend it back and forth. The ONLY way this can be fixed is if they use a higher grade aluminum or 6061-T6. If not, this is really a sad development. This is not a minor problem. iPhone 4/4S if you don't drop it ok, maybe. But iPhone 5 you can't even handle it a little rough? It is getting too delicate to the point where you can't even carry it around with you.

Someone has to talk sense to the designers, QA, whatever. Is Cook going to apologize for this too? And then get Ive fired? Or does Ive get free reign type of thing like the press are saying? Yeah, I am stirring a can of worms, but I originally thought software was only their problem for a multi-billinon dollar company, now I have to consider hardware problems in buying decisions too now? Sorry if this rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but someone has to talk sense to these people. I will willingly use stainless steel for iPhone 5, put in 1080p if you can. I can't imagine buying a phone that will bend in a few months time unless I don't touch it.
Seriously just stop. You don't know what you are talking about. If they made the phone out of the materials you propose it would literally fall apart in your hand. You do not understand materials science at all.

There have been a handfull of bent iPhone 5's out of millions, this is more likely due to defects in the material than the design. In fact the photos of the bent iPhone looks very much like what would happen if the phone was made out of the materials you proposed.

Last edited by Radiating; Nov 26, 2012 at 01:22 PM.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:19 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
He made it pretty clear that he does not have a bent iPhone 5 himself.
He doesn't have an iPhone 5 at all because he says it's a deal breaker for him. So he lends himself to even less credibility when he doesn't even own the product he claims to know so much about.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:28 PM   #110
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I think the same like you, maybe I will have to wait for the iphone 5S because I don't want to have a new iphone that bends or has a lot of scratches.


I am sure that Apple will have to change something to avoid it to bend or scratch.

Steve Jobs by no way could choose that type of materials.

Right now Apple could choose to change the materials use in the iphone 5, or wait for thousands of angry people speak bad about their bend iphone 5. Sooner or later people will start have this issues, they say that if your iphone 5 drops it bend, they say that if you use your iphone 5 it start to remove the black paint on the back.


* I am thinking if Tim Cook will kick Jony Ive because of this, exactly the same as he kick Scott Forstall. I think this is one of the worst errors Tim Cook has done.

* We miss Steve Jobs and after one year that he is no longer here quality at Apple is not the best.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:39 PM   #111
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I am thinking if Tim Cook will kick Jony Ive because of this, exactly the same as he kick Scott Forstall.
lol
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 12:40 PM   #112
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lol
Why lol ? Its not out of these world.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:14 PM   #113
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Why lol ?
Because cranks are funny!
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:26 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiating View Post
Again:

To put it politely: You have no idea what you're talking about at all.

Please see post #67: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...6&postcount=67

In short: the op does not seem to be informed on the subject he's discussing



As an engineer I have to say that this is the least informed technical statement I have ever heard.

Just an FYI that little 2mm section can resist around 110 lbs of force, and when bending there is also the lower section, the back and the other side to consider.



This is an incredibly silly and technically useless way of stating things which varries a lot based on temperature and how much you shake the bottle. It also depends on the coke bottle size.

Just to do the simple conversion we're talking of around 8.5 tons of force here for a fully shaken, hot, 2 liter bottle at the high end and zero at the low end for a cold unshaken bottle of any size.




Seriously you have no idea what you're talking about. The paint adhesion and molecular bonding of the anodizing has NOTHING to do with the material being soft. Also, did you not read my other post? Your phone would literally fall apart if made from less tempered alloy as it would crack at the corners and not bend like it's supposed to. It's made the way it's made for a reason.



Seriously just stop. You don't know what you are talking about. If they made the phone out of the materials you propose it would literally fall apart in your hand. You do not understand materials science at all.

There have been a handfull of bent iPhone 5's out of millions, this is more likely due to defects in the material than the design. In fact the photos of the bent iPhone looks very much like what would happen if the phone was made out of the materials you proposed.

I dont know, do you have any proof about what you said? I dont believe you.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:55 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard1818 View Post
What I've learned from MacRumors postings:

1. Glass can break when dropped
2. Aluminum can scratch when scratched
3. Aluminum can bend with force
4. Phones and water don't mix
5. Batteries die when you use them
Which is why both aluminum and glass make poor materials for cell phones. Why do you think no one else uses it. Not to mention aluminum is also horrible for signal strength.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:13 PM   #116
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Why do you think no one else uses it.
No one else?

http://www.dailytech.com/Samsung+Ann...ticle25556.htm
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:31 PM   #117
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This thread has given me a great deal of amusement.

If the OP's claims were true, I'm pretty certain the bending scandal would've already reached critical mass and it would be all over the media.

Of course aluminium can bend, but an iPhone 5 (or aluminium Mac, for that matter) is not going to bend unless you put a stupid amount of force on it. It's common sense.

And as is clear in the MacBook Pro with Retina display video, Apple does actually stress test their products.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 05:12 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by jon3543 View Post
Half the bendees are idiots who read about bendgate and then obsessively decided to determine how "easy" it is to bend an iPhone. Apple is the worst thing that's ever happened to the OCD community.
I think I just found a new signature quote.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 05:41 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by VinegarTasters View Post
iPhone 5 is prone to bending. It was a buy, now a no-buy

Instead of using Aluminum 6061-T6 (tempered), Apples uses regular Aluminum 6061, which is so soft any stress will bend it. So you can't sit on it, and it
will bend by itself if, internally, there is enough stress from screws and glue.
It will bend at the weakest point, usually the volume buttons because that is
where the big holes are on the outer metal that is holding the integrity of the iPhone 5.

I am hoping they can change to 6061-T6 aluminum. "HOPING" because using it may interfere with the precision of the cuts, which may make it impossible. It may add weight to the device though.

Also, SCUFFGATE is real. Instead of using type III anodizing (hard anodizing), Apple uses instead type II anodizing. Which is why all over the internet your iPhone 5 has these dents and specks.

It is a no sale until Apple uses 6061-T6 Aluminum or 7075 Aluminum, and uses type III anodizing for the outer coat of the aluminum. Or go back to using
stainless steel. I am surprised they didn't catch these problems during prototyping and designing stages.

I think they will only fix it if enough people want them to use the new type of aluminum or anodizing process. I don't think this is a minor problem.
You CAN'T sit on it?!! And it's prone to spontaneous bendage??!! Apple is going down the tubes.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 05:46 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by MarcBook View Post
This thread has given me a great deal of amusement.

If the OP's claims were true, I'm pretty certain the bending scandal would've already reached critical mass and it would be all over the media.

Of course aluminium can bend, but an iPhone 5 (or aluminium Mac, for that matter) is not going to bend unless you put a stupid amount of force on it. It's common sense.

And as is clear in the MacBook Pro with Retina display video, Apple does actually stress test their products.
This is only a matter of time. Soon you will hear it everywhere because more and more people will know that their phones have bend and they will get very angry. I bet that a lot of people don't know that since new their iphones 5 are not 100% perfect, there is a video on youtube where some one shows that his new iphone 5 is bend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7_AS_9z0IU

Maybe a lot of people that has drop their iphone 5 don't know that it has bend, but as soon as more people know about this your will hear it everywhere.

Time will tell how bad this is, but meanwhile I am not buying an iphone 5 only because this and the scratches, I don't want to have a scratched and curve phone because I drop it or because I use it on my front pocket.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 06:00 PM   #121
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This is only a matter of time. Soon you will hear it everywhere because more and more people will know that their phones have bend and they will get very angry. I bet that a lot of people don't know that since new their iphones 5 are not 100% perfect, there is a video on youtube where some one shows that his new iphone 5 is bend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7_AS_9z0IU

Maybe a lot of people that has drop their iphone 5 don't know that it has bend, but as soon as more people know about this your will hear it everywhere.

Time will tell how bad this is, but meanwhile I am not buying an iphone 5 only because this and the scratches, I don't want to have a scratched and curve phone because I drop it or because I use it on my front pocket.
Yeah right...because of a few thousand people in an Internet forum, of which only a small subset of those have posted any complaints?

How does that compare to the millions of IPhone 5s that have been sold?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 06:04 PM   #122
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I just tried to bend my phone. I am a big dude and have broken several devices I've owned, including snapping a Samsung phone from several years ago.

I can get the 5 to flex the tiniest bit- maybe- if I twist the upper corner and lower corner on the opposite side. No matter what I do the phone will not bend.

How someone can remove a 5 from an Otterbox only to have it be bent is beyond me.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:23 PM   #123
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:29 PM   #124
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I guess that's why they call it MacRumors...
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:48 PM   #125
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Guys just stop and accept that these phones can bend because of defects in the manufacturing process. Just because it hasn't happened to you and isn't widespread enough doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You don't need to place a very heavy force on it for it to behind spontaneously.
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