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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:37 AM   #1
jimbo1mcm
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Beg, borrow or steal for fusion!!

If anyone is considering the basic 21.5 with the 5400 HDD I would recommend that you upgrade to the fusion. It looks like it is the best solution re performance/price. I currently have an Ipad3, IP5, and a rMBP with a 256SSD. In a previous life, I put a Samsung 830 in my old MBP. The difference between a SSD and a spinning hard drive is just enormous. I think that once the Imac comes out, the reviews with the fusion will be unbelievably positive.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 03:30 AM   #2
MorganJones
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Thing is you can't get the base model with fusion. Only the 'top' 21 inch model. Which is a fair amount more expensive without the fusion drive
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:30 AM   #3
jimbo1mcm
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Thing is you can't get the base model with fusion. Only the 'top' 21 inch model. Which is a fair amount more expensive without the fusion drive
You are right that it is more money, but you get a better processor and a better GPU. There are guesses that the fusion will add $250 so with the extra $200 for the upgraded 21.5, it is $450 more. Is it worth it? Probably, even for casual stuff and definitely for moderate gaming or photo work. The other option is to just get the basic model and wait for Ifixit to develop a procedure for putting in a SSD. It could get tricky if Apple is glueing stuff or screen removal procedure is totally different. Ifixit usually can figure it out. If Apple has to remove the screen to get to the guts to repair it, then Ifixit can do the same. Good luck. Once you spend the $450 extra, you have a warranteed product with nothing broken.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 04:41 AM   #4
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Thing is you can't get the base model with fusion. Only the 'top' 21 inch model. Which is a fair amount more expensive without the fusion drive
Great example of apples greedy business model - not allowing fusion in base iMac has no technical reason, just apples greed, sad
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 05:15 AM   #5
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Great example of apples greedy business model - not allowing fusion in base iMac has no technical reason, just apples greed, sad
As I recall it, the base 2011 iMac did not have an SSD either. I don't remember the pricing structure, but the company is consistent. The point is Apple is what it is. We all know this. No need to complain about it.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 06:16 AM   #6
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Great example of apples greedy business model - not allowing fusion in base iMac has no technical reason, just apples greed, sad
greed will be their downfall!
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:22 AM   #7
majkom
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As I recall it, the base 2011 iMac did not have an SSD either. I don't remember the pricing structure, but the company is consistent. The point is Apple is what it is. We all know this. No need to complain about it.
Well, still I feel complaint is OK, if they say that their mantra is to build best computers, they simply lie.. it saddens me actually..
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:51 AM   #8
Ademordna
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I can see both sides to this. I admit that it does irk me to think that both of the 21.5 models do not come equipped to run something as popular as Photoshop efficiently. And for a set up starting at 1050+ you'd think it ought to be at least functional for PS, etc.
I want the 21.5 model for creating digital art, nothing super heavy, but efficient. And will have to spend nigh on 1700 just to get things going.

I admire Apple a LOT. But this sucks.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:24 AM   #9
MrMister111
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Originally Posted by MorganJones View Post
Thing is you can't get the base model with fusion. Only the 'top' 21 inch model. Which is a fair amount more expensive without the fusion drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkom View Post
Great example of apples greedy business model - not allowing fusion in base iMac has no technical reason, just apples greed, sad
I agree. The 21.5" base for me is fine but I'd like the fusion as well. As said there's no technical reason.

I think we can, and should, complain. Apple are always quoting "are customers love x, y, z..." maybe we should ask and complain why this is so.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:31 AM   #10
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Great example of apples greedy business model - not allowing fusion in base iMac has no technical reason, just apples greed, sad
So what is the reason why Dell doesn't allow fusion in any of their computers? And HP doesn't? And ASUS doesn't? And Lenovo doesn't? And Acer doesn't?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 08:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jimbo1mcm View Post
You are right that it is more money, but you get a better processor and a better GPU. There are guesses that the fusion will add $250 so with the extra $200 for the upgraded 21.5, it is $450 more. Is it worth it? Probably, even for casual stuff and definitely for moderate gaming or photo work. The other option is to just get the basic model and wait for Ifixit to develop a procedure for putting in a SSD. It could get tricky if Apple is glueing stuff or screen removal procedure is totally different. Ifixit usually can figure it out. If Apple has to remove the screen to get to the guts to repair it, then Ifixit can do the same. Good luck. Once you spend the $450 extra, you have a warranteed product with nothing broken.
Could you buy a thunderbolt SSD for less than the upgrade fee?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:05 AM   #12
iRCL
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What a strange post
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:14 AM   #13
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I'm sure greed is what it is all about ...

Since we all know SSD drives are free these days, and it wouldn't add any cost to the low entry-level model to include a free SSD so that Fusion was available.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:41 AM   #14
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What is the speed of the mechanical part of the Fusion drive, 5400RPM or 7200RPM?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 10:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ademordna View Post
I can see both sides to this. I admit that it does irk me to think that both of the 21.5 models do not come equipped to run something as popular as Photoshop efficiently. And for a set up starting at 1050+ you'd think it ought to be at least functional for PS, etc.
I want the 21.5 model for creating digital art, nothing super heavy, but efficient. And will have to spend nigh on 1700 just to get things going.

I admire Apple a LOT. But this sucks.
I have as many issues with Apple's business model as anyone, but your claim that the base model does not come equipped to run Photoshop efficiently is just false and hyperbolic. I AM doing super heavy photoshop, illustrator, indesign, and flash work on a 2011 i5 iMac with a traditional hard drive, and it is more than capable, only slowing down when I'm in the most massive of files. I find it funny that so many people here feel they need a beast of a machine for casual image and illustration work.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:34 AM   #16
vladfein
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...your claim that the base model does not come equipped to run Photoshop efficiently is just false and hyperbolic.
So - is it "false" or "hyperbolic"?
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:46 AM   #17
azentropy
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I'm sure greed is what it is all about ...

Since we all know SSD drives are free these days, and it wouldn't add any cost to the low entry-level model to include a free SSD so that Fusion was available.
I think you misunderstood the point. It wouldn't add any cost to have the option of adding a SSD or "Fusio"n drive to the base model rather than requiring the higher end 21" to even have the choice of the option. Not that choosing the option wouldn't cost more.

BTW - I haven't seen for sure yet if the 1TB 5400 RPM drive is the 2.5" or 3.5", but if it is the 2.5" I've learned from experience with the new Mac mini that it is a dog. Until I upgraded to a SSD on my own, it made my new Mac mini feel much slower than my 2 year old 13" MBP (which has a SSD) for many tasks. So it is really a shame they don't offer an option on the lower end model as probably a DIY on the 21" iMac is going to be impossible or very difficult.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 11:52 AM   #18
Ademordna
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Originally Posted by nonillogical View Post
I have as many issues with Apple's business model as anyone, but your claim that the base model does not come equipped to run Photoshop efficiently is just false and hyperbolic. I AM doing super heavy photoshop, illustrator, indesign, and flash work on a 2011 i5 iMac with a traditional hard drive, and it is more than capable, only slowing down when I'm in the most massive of files. I find it funny that so many people here feel they need a beast of a machine for casual image and illustration work.
Oh, don't get me wrong, my comment more or less illustrated what I've been advised on this forum. I would love for the base model to suit my needs, but just can't be sure. Are you running the software on a 5400rpm drive? This is what i've been worried about, along with needing 16gb ram for photoshop. At least 3 Apple reps have told me to upgrade the HD and ram for CS6
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:15 PM   #19
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Oh, don't get me wrong, my comment more or less illustrated what I've been advised on this forum. I would love for the base model to suit my needs, but just can't be sure. Are you running the software on a 5400rpm drive? This is what i've been worried about, along with needing 16gb ram for photoshop. At least 3 Apple reps have told me to upgrade the HD and ram for CS6
I believe this machine has a 7200rpm hard drive and I did upgrade to 16gb ram aftermarket. That said, my previous work machine (2008, 5400rpm drive, 4gb ram) also rarely presented a problem unless I was dealing with 100+ layers or PSDs over 750mb. I think that the hard drive speed is easily the least of the factors making the speed difference between those two machines. It probably accounted for a slight difference in file saving and loading time, not in overall operational smoothness.

I am getting a 2012 iMac for home and AM going to opt for the fusion drive and 16gb ram, and think its an upgrade that makes sense for anyone who just wants the absolute best experience, but IMO it sounds like the base model would meet your needs and still be an overall noticeable upgrade from any current iMac you may have used.

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So - is it "false" or "hyperbolic"?
Ok you got me on that one
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:20 PM   #20
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Greedy, greedy Apple

It will be their downfall!
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jimbo1mcm View Post
You are right that it is more money, but you get a better processor and a better GPU. There are guesses that the fusion will add $250 so with the extra $200 for the upgraded 21.5, it is $450 more. Is it worth it? Probably, even for casual stuff and definitely for moderate gaming or photo work. The other option is to just get the basic model and wait for Ifixit to develop a procedure for putting in a SSD. It could get tricky if Apple is glueing stuff or screen removal procedure is totally different. Ifixit usually can figure it out. If Apple has to remove the screen to get to the guts to repair it, then Ifixit can do the same. Good luck. Once you spend the $450 extra, you have a warranteed product with nothing broken.
Do you think that most people can just mindlessly afford to through an extra $450 at a machine, and be happy with that, without questioning why they need to spend this extra money? Maybe that is how you purchase things ("the shiny company told me to"), but you should think about your purchases. The upgraded version of 21.5" iMac is truly unremarkable. The speed increase is incremental, absolutely not worth the extra money. All this is, is Apple robbing their customers blind for extra money that they definitely do not need.

Your last sentence also makes me laugh. You think you are getting a bargain after spending of thousands of dollars because it works? I would expect as much, you can buy a car for the price of that computer, I'd sure as hell hope it worked.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:26 PM   #22
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I'm sure greed is what it is all about ...

Since we all know SSD drives are free these days, and it wouldn't add any cost to the low entry-level model to include a free SSD so that Fusion was available.
You've completely missed the point. No one is asking for a free fusion drive.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:38 PM   #23
majkom
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I'm sure greed is what it is all about ...

Since we all know SSD drives are free these days, and it wouldn't add any cost to the low entry-level model to include a free SSD so that Fusion was available.
as few wrote, you missed the point... no one is asking for free SSd or fusion, but for option to upgrade!

At this point, apple is not making computer I and many others need.. SSD is a must, sorry, but in 2013 computer without SSD is ****.. and iMac in its base version is strong enough for all home activities, but to get SSD or fussion into it, I have to pay 450-500 dollars (I dont need better GPU, base one is sufficient)... greed, nothing else
And no, mac mini is not an option, I will never go with those lame intel gpus...
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 01:39 PM   #24
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If anyone is considering the basic 21.5 with the 5400 HDD I would recommend that you upgrade to the fusion. It looks like it is the best solution re performance/price. I currently have an Ipad3, IP5, and a rMBP with a 256SSD. In a previous life, I put a Samsung 830 in my old MBP. The difference between a SSD and a spinning hard drive is just enormous. I think that once the Imac comes out, the reviews with the fusion will be unbelievably positive.
I agree with everything you said.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:07 PM   #25
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as few wrote, you missed the point... no one is asking for free SSd or fusion, but for option to upgrade!

At this point, apple is not making computer I and many others need.. SSD is a must, sorry, but in 2013 computer without SSD is ****.. and iMac in its base version is strong enough for all home activities, but to get SSD or fussion into it, I have to pay 450-500 dollars (I dont need better GPU, base one is sufficient)... greed, nothing else
And no, mac mini is not an option, I will never go with those lame intel gpus...
never mind
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