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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:42 AM   #26
marc11
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I think the gift that was lost to Apple was not in a product roadmap, it was Steve's drive for perfection. His ability to see a product and demand changes, to see faults and to adjust the device, sometimes to a fault, but usually for the better.

So sure, even if he left a roadmap of product ideas, design and function, who will step in and tweak it at the smallest detailed level? That is is what is missing.

I remember reading a quote from Steve that successful companies ship...since his passing how many delays have we seen from Apple, and when there weren't delays, the available supply has been a joke.

It is those things that will hurt Apple the most in the long run IMHO.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:32 AM   #27
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So jellybean is where iOS was in 2007 in that respect?
iPhone 5 - iOS 6 - 2012 - are you getting it?

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Originally Posted by vastoholic View Post
But you need to get your eyes checked. But the icons/home screens are still a jumbled mess to begin with.
Well, you get this really big weather widget that takes up the top half of the screen.

Then you have row of icons just like iOS.

You do know what Android looks like...right? just checking
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:42 AM   #28
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iPhone 5 - iOS 6 - 2012 - are you getting it?

The fact that the iphone had buttery smooth scrolling upon initial release. 5 years ago. Something Android is only just getting now. Apparently, depending who you believe.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by irDigital0l View Post
iPhone 5 - iOS 6 - 2012 - are you getting it?

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Well, you get this really big weather widget that takes up the top half of the screen.

Then you have row of icons just like iOS.

You do know what Android looks like...right? just checking
Yeah I've seen android and played around with it some. As far usability goes, for me it goes iOS, Windows Phone, Android. Android tries too hard to be mobile computer they forgot that the customer just wants to pick up the phone and go.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:11 AM   #30
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The iPhone 5 has plenty of the wow factor. First of all it is the fastest phone currently on the market. On geekbench it scores 1665 where the SIII only score around 1400. If that isn't wow then I don't know what is. If by wow factors you actually mean gimmicks then no it doesn't have any of those because the SIIi has plenty of gimmicks to go around.
I smell loser...
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:20 AM   #31
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The more important question should be, why people aren't satisfied with refinements and are clutching to major design changes?

Apple won't change something for the sake of changing something. If you want that get an Android phone.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:19 AM   #32
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I smell loser...
That doesn't make sense but whatever works for you.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:29 AM   #33
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I hope Steve Jobs planned for an upcoming iNote.

I really wish my iphone had a bigger screen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be happy with a Galaxy Note 2 sized iPhone.
ipad mini? jk jk

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The iPhone 5 has plenty of the wow factor. First of all it is the fastest phone currently on the market. On geekbench it scores 1665 where the SIII only score around 1400. If that isn't wow then I don't know what is. If by wow factors you actually mean gimmicks then no it doesn't have any of those because the SIIi has plenty of gimmicks to go around.
gimmicks? elaborate more. seems a bit subjective to your opinion.


not quite the fastest...(yeah yeah i know geekbench doesnt really mean much in real world operation)

nexus 4, 2000...which is higher than the ip5
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1328090

the quad core S III i've seen any where from 16-2000
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:52 AM   #34
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So, I'm sure you've heard of the rumors that before Steve Jobs died, one of the last things he did was to work on the iPhone 5 and make that one of the items Apple would release. Does anyone think this is true? I find it hard to believe Jobs did anything on the iPhone 5 because it's so lacking in any wow factor in the face of so much competition from Samsung. If I was in Steve Jobs' shoes working on the final project of my life, I wouldn't have been so conservative. What is most likely is that Jobs did not do anything at all with the iPhone 5, iPad Mini, etc....
why wouldn't he have? they didn't start designing the iPhone 5 the day before the keynote lol.

how is it lacking in wow factor?

People went nuts over all versions of the iPhone. No one complained about build quality on the other phones. Yet apple makes the 5 lighter, has LTE, bigger screen, better build quality IMO, it looks cooler than any other version. I didn't believe just making the screen taller made sense until i used an iPhone 5 and now own one. Checking out my old iPhone 4 and i can't believe that apple had that screen for almost 5 years.

Also, if you knew you were dying, wouldn't you rather be spending more time with family/friends then worry about making a phone with Wow factor? ridiculous
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:54 AM   #35
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ipad mini? jk jk

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gimmicks? elaborate more. seems a bit subjective to your opinion.


not quite the fastest...(yeah yeah i know geekbench doesnt really mean much in real world operation)

nexus 4, 2000...which is higher than the ip5
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1328090

the quad core S III i've seen any where from 16-2000
Why do people get so offended over others opinion. I have had 3 androids since my 3GS. I had Optimus M, Esteem, and SIII. Android phones have horrible ram management and lag, even the SIII.

Also many things on the SIII are gimmicks (obviously my opinion so it's subjective). Such as PIP. Also their attempt to copy airplay with Samsung TVs is very laggy. NFC i would never use do to me wanting to keep my bank accounts and personal information private.

I did not like the phone and that's why I switched back to iOS with the iPhone 5. I have had 3 really bad experiences with android and don't plan on going back. Not to mentions waiting for updates is horrible if the phones even get an update.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 10:01 AM   #36
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Why do people get so offended over others opinion. I have had 3 androids since my 3GS. I had Optimus M, Esteem, and SIII. Android phones have horrible ram management and lag, even the SIII.

Also many things on the SIII are gimmicks (obviously my opinion so it's subjective). Such as PIP. Also their attempt to copy airplay with Samsung TVs is very laggy. NFC i would never use do to me wanting to keep my bank accounts and personal information private.

I did not like the phone and that's why I switched back to iOS with the iPhone 5. I have had 3 really bad experiences with android and don't plan on going back. Not to mentions waiting for updates is horrible if the phones even get an update.
no one was offended just informed you that the ip5 isnt the "fastest on the market" using your geekbench..and wanted you to elaborate.... apparently you are the one who is offended.
The word gimmick is thrown out of context on the forum a lot.. forgive me for asking you to elaborate on your idea of a gimmick
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:34 PM   #37
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no one was offended just informed you that the ip5 isnt the "fastest on the market" using your geekbench..and wanted you to elaborate.... apparently you are the one who is offended.
The word gimmick is thrown out of context on the forum a lot.. forgive me for asking you to elaborate on your idea of a gimmick
Of course he's offended, he got served a hot plate of facts and logics.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:42 PM   #38
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All it said was that he left a road map for apple product for next few years (I think 5). It has plenty of wow factor. People these days are just unimpressed by amazing technology because its abundant.
I see it a bit differently. Apple has a history of pretty great products, they've set the bar high. So when they fail to deliver, like they did with the iPhone 5, people are unimpressed, as well they should be.

I have been buying Apple products since 1991. I know what they are capable of, that's why I find the iPhone 5 dull and lackluster. I know better, it's as simple as that.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:56 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by BFizzzle View Post
ipad mini? jk jk

----------



gimmicks? elaborate more. seems a bit subjective to your opinion.


not quite the fastest...(yeah yeah i know geekbench doesnt really mean much in real world operation)

nexus 4, 2000...which is higher than the ip5
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1328090

the quad core S III i've seen any where from 16-2000
So basically if those phones used 2 cores they would be much slower than the 2 core iPhone 5? Maybe a quad core iPhone clock at 1.5ghz would score around 2500?

I mean we can get into arguments about efficiency, floating point performance on a per core basis, memory and memory bandwidth performance.

Maybe we can get into muti-thread performance or how many apps use all 4 cores or are optimized to do so in such a way that it matters.

Nobody wants to do that though because they arguments start collapsing around them.

These benches will be always be Apples to Oranges remarks.

I rather have the experience that I like and not look for individual ways to justify it.

Like sometimes I really want is an iPhone nano with a 2.5 inch screen with the same power and access to my apps.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:57 PM   #40
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I see it a bit differently. Apple has a history of pretty great products, they've set the bar high. So when they fail to deliver, like they did with the iPhone 5, people are unimpressed, as well they should be.

I have been buying Apple products since 1991. I know what they are capable of, that's why I find the iPhone 5 dull and lackluster. I know better, it's as simple as that.
i see whatchya mean but what do you propose would have been grounds for better on the iphone 5? honestly curious as to what you and others find desirable and up to par.

IMO iOS is one of the biggest reasons i feel like the iphone is lack lusting

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So basically if those phones used 2 cores they would be much slower than the 2 core iPhone 5? Maybe a quad core iPhone clock at 1.5ghz would score around 2500?

I mean we can get into arguments about efficiency, floating point performance on a per core basis, memory and memory bandwidth performance.

Maybe we can get into muti-thread performance or how many apps use all 4 cores or are optimized to do so in such a way that it matters.

Nobody wants to do that though because they arguments start collapsing around them.

These benches will be always be Apples to Oranges remarks.

hence my comments about geekbench not meaning much and saying QUAD CORE devices. nor did i ever say the a6 wasnt fast.


Quote:
(yeah yeah i know geekbench doesnt really mean much in real world operation)
Quote:
"fastest on the market" using your geekbench

obviously i dont think geekbench is a good way to judge the devices preformance..but he was the one using it to judge
regardless it doesnt matter about efficiency etc.. whether i has the best/more powerfull hemmy, turbo diesel etc its about the results... those phones had higher benchmarks than it..making it "faster" by his choice of geekbench.. would a quadcore A6 run laps around them? well duh yes it prolly would
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:03 PM   #41
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So, I'm sure you've heard of the rumors that before Steve Jobs died, one of the last things he did was to work on the iPhone 5 and make that one of the items Apple would release. Does anyone think this is true? I find it hard to believe Jobs did anything on the iPhone 5 because it's so lacking in any wow factor in the face of so much competition from Samsung.
Does it matter? The iPhone 5 is what it is. Quite a few people (myself included) like it quite a bit. And Steve Jobs' apparent involvement in the 4S doesn't seem to have made it radically different. It's even less so of a change than the 5 was, IMO.

Would proof of SJ's involvement in creating the 5 sway your opinion somehow? Why would it?

I still don't get why so many people seem to think that SJ's decision were infallible. They weren't. He made many mistakes in his career. Stop trying to make him a saint.

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If I was in Steve Jobs' shoes working on the final project of my life, I wouldn't have been so conservative.
Yeah, but you weren't in Steve Jobs' shoes. None of us were. We can talk all the bluster we want about how grandiose we'd be, but the fact remains that time would've been limited, and only so much work could've been put in before your time would've been up.


Quote:
What is most likely is that Jobs did not do anything at all with the iPhone 5, iPad Mini, etc....
Probably. But the reality is, people drastically overestimate the involvement he had in previous iterations, too. Sure, he had the overarching ideas, and green lighted the process and final products, but did he sit at a lathe and cut out the stainless steel backplanes for the iPhone 4? No, that was Jony Ive. Did he sit down and write code for the iOS 5 interface (or 4 or 3 or 2 or 1 for that matter)? No, that was Scott Forstall's and his team... for better or worse. Did he design the internals and come up with chip configurations? No, that was Bob Mansfield. Did he come up with the app store idea? No, in fact he was against the idea of native apps. Eddy Cue made it happen, though.

So I think it's a little unrealistic to ponder whether Steve Jobs "blessed" some piece of hardware. The people under him who made these things a reality are still there, save a bad apple or two. If you're not happy with the newer hardware, there's no one to blame for that. People's tastes change. And you can't assume that one company will continue to wow everyone more and more each product cycle, forever.

----------

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Originally Posted by marc11 View Post
I remember reading a quote from Steve that successful companies ship...since his passing how many delays have we seen from Apple, and when there weren't delays, the available supply has been a joke.
Really, so the lines for the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 weren't due to supply issues? People just lined up and didn't buy anything for weeks at a time because it was fun?

And Steve never delayed a product, huh? Yeah, okay.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:04 PM   #42
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It's really a testament to how great of a man Jobs really was for Apple that people seem to completely forget all his mess ups along the way.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:14 PM   #43
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The first things I thought when I picked up the iPhone 5 for the first time?

Wow, it's thin.
Wow, it's light, but doesn't feel cheap.
Wow, LTE is fast.
Wow, the UI is smooth.
Wow, the extra screen real estate is handy.
Wow, it looks cool.
.
Funny, my first thoughts where
Wow, it's thin, but compared to the whole size its relatively the same thickness as most current phones.
Wow, it's light, just like most samsung phone.
Wow, LTE is the same as it has been for a year on other phones.
Wow, the UI is just as smooth as jelly bean which is good for an old OS.
Wow, the extra screen real estate is not that noticable compared to all other flagship smartphones.


Wow, it looks cool, I wonder how durable it will be.....

Well to each his or her own.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:16 PM   #44
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hence my comments about geekbench not meaning much. nor did i ever say the a6 wasnt fast.
It wasn't targeted at you. I hate all this benchmark stuff in general. I quoted you because you had a link to the point I wanted to make.

AMD and INTEL had been fighting this kind of war for years. AMD last year, release the FX-8150 that although on a gigahertz level was faster than the I5-2500, was 40-50 percent slower on single thread performance.


Now this is not about what happen to either companies but about how design and efficiency matters more than what fanboys on both sides like to take their talking points and argue with you about.

Samsung makes beautiful phones, Apple makes beautiful phones. If anybody is really buying either over those phones because of benchmarks, then they deserve there misinformed folly.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:20 PM   #45
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It wasn't targeted at you. I hate all this benchmark stuff in general. I quoted you because you had a link to the point I wanted to make.

AMD and INTEL had been fighting this kind of war for years. AMD last year, release the FX-8150 that although on a gigahertz level was faster than the I5-2500, was 40-50 percent slower on single thread performance.


Now this is not about what happen to either companies but about how design and efficiency matters more than what fanboys on both sides like to take their talking points and argue with you about.

Samsung makes beautiful phones, Apple makes beautiful phones. If anybody is really buying either over those phones because of benchmarks, then they deserve there misinformed folly.
ahh okay.. my bad. yeah im on the same page.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:20 PM   #46
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Funny, my first thoughts where
Wow, it's thin, but compared to the whole size its relatively the same thickness as most current phones.
Wow, it's light, just like most samsung phone.
Wow, LTE is the same as it has been for a year on other phones.
Wow, the UI is just as smooth as jelly bean which is good for an old OS.
Wow, the extra screen real estate is not that noticable compared to all other flagship smartphones.


Wow, it looks cool, I wonder how durable it will be.....

Well to each his or her own.
....troll much.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:37 PM   #47
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....troll much.

I don't consider giving an honest opinion as trolling.

I have owned every iphone up to the 5, every ipad, a macbook pro 15 and a macbook air 13, and I am deep in the apple eco system (with over $11,000 spent on apple devices and apps, I think I have earned the right to be a member of the apple community), but I still call it as I see it.

I guess anyone who isnt a true blue fanboy is a troll in your eyes, so thanks

I am glad to be a free thinker.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:42 PM   #48
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I don't consider giving an honest opinion as trolling.

I have owned every iphone up to the 5, every ipad, a macbook pro 15 and a macbook air 13, and I am deep in the apple eco system (with over $11,000 spent on apple devices and apps, I think I have earned the right to be a member of the apple community), but I still call it as I see it.

I guess anyone who isnt a true blue fanboy is a troll in your eyes, so thanks

I am glad to be a free thinker.
You mocked his post. If you had said you know I'm going to have to disagree with what you are saying when I first saw the phone blah,blah,blah. No you decided to mock his post by repeating it word for word and adding your nonsensical thoughts.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:51 PM   #49
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You mocked his post. If you had said you know I'm going to have to disagree with what you are saying when I first saw the phone blah,blah,blah. No you decided to mock his post by repeating it word for word and adding your nonsensical thoughts.


*waiting for his rebuttal to that*
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:52 PM   #50
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Im not going to go back and forth, changing his words to mine is not mocking.

Mocking would be if I made fun of him or her for what he thought. I never undermined his thoughts I just replaced them with my own.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread..
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