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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:16 PM   #26
Stella
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The lower price was an introductory price? Now that promotion is over its gone up to the standard price?

Nothing to see here... a very standard practice.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:16 PM   #27
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Developers can cry all they want, but they should learn a little bit of business:

Peter Drucker called it a deadly business sin:

Quote:
"The third deadly sin is cost-driven pricing. The only thing that works is price-driven costing. Most American and practically all European companies arrive at their prices by adding up costs and then putting a profit margin on top. And then, as soon as they have introduced the product, they have to start cutting the price, have to redesign the product at enormous expense, have to take losses -- and, often, have to drop a perfectly good product because it is priced incorrectly. Their argument? "We have to recover our costs and make a profit."

This is true but irrelevant: Customers do not see it as their job to ensure manufacturers a profit. The only sound way to price is to start out with what the market is willing to pay -- and thus, it must be assumed, what the competition will charge and design to that price specification."
When you talk about the labor you put into an app, that is all very nice, but the consumer doesn't care... All that matters is what people are willing to pay. So maybe when you think about developing an app - decide on the price it will sell at and then focus on putting the effort into it that gets you there and no more.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iRCL View Post
Who the hell cares about the "story" behind software. Here's a story - a bunch of sweaty neckbeards sit in a disgusting lab area eating doritos and drinking mountain dew and farting, and out comes the Unreal engine. It's awesome. And basically nobody cares about the 'story' leading to it.


OK, so it's about the Doom engine instead of Unreal, but it's still a fascinating story about the creation of awesome software.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:24 PM   #29
aloshka
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That's ridiculous. People pay almost 2k for an average apple computer. 500 for an ipad, 200 for an iPhone. But 14 bucks... Oooo that's way to expensive

If it's too expensive, don't buy. People thought apple was too expensive, and yet everyone is throwing as much money as they can at them.

If you want quality, then pay for it. Otherwise there are hundreds of todo apps on the AppStore. But since they all suck--thus the complaining, why would a great app be priced the same as an app that took 5 minutes to develop?

All those awful apps that were created by unskilled developers created unrealistic expectations about pricing.

And if your argument is "there are great apps that cost 1-2$" then go use them just like you tell people who can't afford Apple computers to go buy a Dell instead.

Last edited by aloshka; Nov 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:29 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by aloshka View Post
That's ridiculous. People pay almost 2k for an average apple computer. 500 for an ipad, 200 for an iPhone. But 14 bucks... Oooo that's way to expensive
There's a simple explanation.

People only have a finite amount of money and they'd rather save it for the next hardware release

I remember an Italian friend proudly showing me all his kit a few years ago. He's spent thousands of Euros on Apple kit. His home was full of it. I asked him what software he owned and he equally proudly told me he'd never bought any software. He pirated everything, including the applications he used for business. He was incredibly surprised I'd even asked the question. Hardware was everything, software was nothing.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:31 PM   #31
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So you're telling me this company prices their software based on the multiples of pints they drink?

Wow, sounds like they have a great strategy going there.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:33 PM   #32
ucmj22
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What a bunch of Whiners! And Im not talking about Realmac! If its useful to you, and you think $15 is reasonable, buy it. If its not useful to you, who cares. If its useful to you but you think $15 is too much then find a corner and cry all over your wallet with a sphincter tighter than a size small shirt on Michael Moore.

If I want to bottle my own farts in a mason jar and sell them for $1500 bucks a pop, what the hell do you care? If you don't want my Jar-O-Farts, don't buy it, but then don't sit around and whine about how you totally would have bought my fart for $100 but $1500 is just crazy for a fart that you don't even really care for the smell of because it lacks that woody undertone. I know how much time and effort went in to making that fart "just so" and it is worth every bit of $1500.... where was I going with this...... Oh yeah, quit whining!

Last edited by ucmj22; Nov 28, 2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:36 PM   #33
aloshka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxxey View Post
There's a simple explanation.

People only have a finite amount of money and they'd rather save it for the next hardware release

I remember an Italian friend proudly showing me all his kit a few years ago. He's spent thousands of Euros on Apple kit. His home was full of it. I asked him what software he owned and he equally proudly told me he'd never bought any software. He pirated everything, including the applications he used for business. He was incredibly surprised I'd even asked the question. Hardware was everything, software was nothing.
That's an awful story about a guy who lived beyond his means and had to steal just to have the latest greatest to show off. Mac hardware is worthless without the software. The hardware uses all the same components that PC's do.

What separates Mac is the way everything works together (ie software)
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:38 PM   #34
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It's a fact I lost brain cells whilst reading that article. It doesn't matter how you put it, that's an overpriced app that really isn't that innovative.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:40 PM   #35
aloshka
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Overpriced? So is the Mac hardware you are writing this comment on, yet you still bought it
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:40 PM   #36
Builddesign
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... Ill take my refund for clear please. All looks.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:53 PM   #37
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Realmac is certainly entitled to price their apps at whatever they want, but the simple fact is, people compare. Realmac is equating Clear as a premium designer jean, and they are certainly entitled to lofty self promotion.

But from what I can tell, Clear lacks too many features that I consider critical to justify even its discounted $9.99 launch price. At the very least, I need due date, notes, and Reminders integration (so that I can share certain lists with my family and for Siri).

I realize that Clear is aiming to be as minimal as possible (much like Due), but it can't charge premium for such limited feature set.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:56 PM   #38
aloshka
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Originally Posted by nutmac View Post
Realmac is certainly entitled to price their apps at whatever they want, but the simple fact is, people compare. Realmac is equating Clear as a premium designer jean, and they are certainly entitled to lofty self promotion.

But from what I can tell, Clear lacks too many features that I consider critical to justify even its discounted $9.99 launch price. At the very least, I need due date, notes, and Reminders integration (so that I can share certain lists with my family and for Siri).

I realize that Clear is aiming to be as minimal as possible (much like Due), but it can't charge premium for such limited feature set.
I'm thinking they are focusing on a different audience then, say Pocket Informant which has over 500 features (due dates, reminders, you name it).

I for one love the simplicity and really hope they don't add reminders, etc, to become like all the other $2 apps.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:15 PM   #39
HMI
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I don't see his logic. 2 pints of beer...or $300 USD skinny designer jeans from a denim mill in Japan? Okay guy!
If he was really that concerned about sustainability, then he would make his own jeans at home, rather than pay $300 for some oil drunk cargo ship to bring it to him.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:16 PM   #40
Surklyn
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Am I missing something? Just checked the App Store and its priced at $1.99

Edit: I can't read... Mac not ios

Last edited by Surklyn; Nov 28, 2012 at 01:16 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:18 PM   #41
ucmj22
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
If he was really that concerned about sustainability, then he would make his own jeans at home, rather than pay $300 for some oil drunk cargo ship to bring it to him.
when did they say they were concerned about sustainability?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:18 PM   #42
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Jarman is really just explaining the basic concept of "economic value." Funny but my Econ 101 professor eons ago used almost the exact same analogy describe it. He called it the "six pack" theory, as in, how many six packs of beer would be a fair exchange for any other given item is a way of explaining its worth to you. All of this is apart from whether this app is worth what the developer thinks it is worth. It's up to individual customers to decide how many pints they would give up to own it.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:19 PM   #43
Mactendo
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Originally Posted by AJClayton View Post
The response to this is going to be fairly predictable. Those who write apps will feel some sympathy with RealMac Software. Those who buy apps will say that it's too expensive. Probably.

Being a developer myself I fall into the former category. I'm going through a similar thought process for an iPad app I'm just wrapping up development on. It's taken many hours to create and I've spent a huge amount of time carefully putting it together. I had to bring in an expert for the subject matter I'm working on and she also invested lots of her time in the project. We will split any profit between us.

Similar to RealMac software selling my app for less than a fiver just won't do it justice, however I know that if I charge much more than £1.99 for it, it probably won't sell - however good it is.

When I first started developing apps for the iPhone, before the iPad was in the frame, I remember telling a friend about a project I'd been working on with some colleagues. I'd written the code, one other guy had created the graphics and the other had developed the concept and tested. We'd decided to charge just 99p for it, even though - with 3 of us involved - it would take forever to earn anything close to the money needed to pay for our time. This is before iAd or the move into freemium app models but he couldn't understand why we weren't giving it away for free. And this guy runs his own business. Scary.

The bottom line here is that people want a bargain and don't want to pay a reasonable rate for other people's hard work. They shop in cheap supermarkets and don't understand why their food tastes horrible and buy cheap clothes that in 2 washes are falling to pieces.

I will be flamed to within an inch of my life here, I realise that, but however much I don't like it - that's the way it is.
Listen to this man, guys. He's an App Store developer and still use the 1st gen Mac Pro. 95-99% of developers are not rich at all. Just because some angry pigs and other titles (mostly games) grabs millions it doesn't mean that all others are doing well or even close to that.
Said that I believe Clear app should be priced at $9,95 it would be a fair price. But not $1 or $2 or $4.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:19 PM   #44
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This is why I don't drink! It's too damn expensive.

Apps, on the other hand, last you forever, and not just 10 minutes. But the thing is today we're bombarded with crap apps, and it makes sense to sell them for next to nothing as it allows everyone to buy everything without regret. But we don't need the crap apps, it would be a lot better if 90% of the apps out there would get banned and we could make easier choices from the quality ones out there. It would also mean people would trust that they can spend more on a good app, and they'd have more money to spend too.

It's this crazy consumerism that's killing everything, but I don't think we can really do anything just now. It will solve itself, at some point, when it all collapses!
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:35 PM   #45
aloshka
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This is why I don't drink! It's too damn expensive.

Apps, on the other hand, last you forever, and not just 10 minutes. But the thing is today we're bombarded with crap apps, and it makes sense to sell them for next to nothing as it allows everyone to buy everything without regret. But we don't need the crap apps, it would be a lot better if 90% of the apps out there would get banned and we could make easier choices from the quality ones out there. It would also mean people would trust that they can spend more on a good app, and they'd have more money to spend too.
100% Agreed! This has been a discussion among developers for a very long time. Most think that a trial for all apps would fix this, but Apple will never go for that because they rake in 30% even for the crap. Having trials means most people will not buy the crappy apps. And most people don't bother to try to get a refund for $1, so Apple wins either way.

That's why Android purchases for apps are so low. They mostly have trials and people don't bother buying the crap. I don't think Apple consumers necessarily buy more apps, I just think there is no easy way to say this app sucks and I want my money back. That causes this fake notion that Apple users pay more and buy more often causing more developers to support the iOS platform. When in reality the only winner in this is Apple. Consumers hate the crappy apps and very difficult to get refunds and developers don't make money and can't raise prices because of crappy app competition (why would anyone notice your app, if there are a thousand more in your category, all $1 or free).

Kudos to Apple for having such an incredible business strategy.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:40 PM   #46
HMI
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Originally Posted by ucmj22 View Post
when did they say they were concerned about sustainability?
In the article:

"Now lets apply that thought process to the Hiut Jeans, why would I spend £130 on a pair of Jeans when I can pick up a pair for £20 on the high street? Because of the fit and finish. Because they were made by a "Grand Master" seamstress, using a sewing machine in Cardigan Bay, Wales. Because of the story. Because of the way they would make me feel. Because of sustainability. Just because software is a less tangible product, doesn't mean that the making behind the scenes differs in any way."
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:01 PM   #47
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It all comes down to what the customers are willing to pay for a "to do" app.

There's no way in hell I'd drop $15 on that silly app lol
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:03 PM   #48
ucmj22
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
In the article:

"Now lets apply that thought process to the Hiut Jeans, why would I spend £130 on a pair of Jeans when I can pick up a pair for £20 on the high street? Because of the fit and finish. Because they were made by a "Grand Master" seamstress, using a sewing machine in Cardigan Bay, Wales. Because of the story. Because of the way they would make me feel. Because of sustainability. Just because software is a less tangible product, doesn't mean that the making behind the scenes differs in any way."
missed that... but why would an oil drunk cargo ship have to bring it to him, if he lives in the UK, and the jeans are made in Wales?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:01 PM   #49
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I bought this app, I have also bought "Things". Clear was around £6 when I bought it and thought that was a good price for what it does, sadly with app development you cant take into account how much time it took to get an overall price, there are so many apps with very similar functionality.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:23 PM   #50
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#1- I have to agree that Peter Drucker is a genius.

#2- I feel no sympathy for this Developer or his pricing strategy. If he feels he needs to defend his decision by comparing it to buying beer he has bigger problems. If there truly is value in his product then smart consumers will look past this whole charade and buy.

#3- Clear is part of a commoditized market and charging premium prices is going to be very difficult. Jeans are also a commodity. However, the HUIT jeans he refers to are made of selvedge denim, from Japanese Denim Mills. Japanese Denim is famously expensive($200-$400USD). Many if not all of these mills still use old-school methods and machinery to make denim as it was made a century ago. The funny thing about Japanese denim is that it's hard to find and while expensive, sells fast.
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