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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:42 AM   #26
jasonbaum
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Originally Posted by jcastillo20059 View Post
Yeah it takes forever, I live in So Cal I once had an order go from New York which is where they usually end up when they arrive from China go straight to on of the So Cal post office locations straight to Boston and then finally ending up at my house, their shipping methods aren't the best but I always take in account that they will take a month to ship out. I am going to wait out a couple of weeks so they can keep perfecting their methods, its only a matter of time until their replicas are close to near the same quality as the originals
So you're trusting an organization that can't even master the intricacies of international shipping from point A to point B, to come close to the precision engineering and quality of materials to the original. I just don't get that whatsoever.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:04 PM   #27
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just buy a sector 5 on 11/30 but has been shipped yet i contact him and they say that they have high demand for it it will ship in 1 or 2 days
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:56 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jasonbaum View Post
So you're trusting an organization that can't even master the intricacies of international shipping from point A to point B, to come close to the precision engineering and quality of materials to the original. I just don't get that whatsoever.
Clearly those are 2 separate things, all those shipments are done by cargo ships so thats where the time goes and plus customs always takes forever, so yes I am trusting their engineering skills enough to wait until they make a quality product.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 02:31 PM   #29
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Clearly those are 2 separate things, all those shipments are done by cargo ships so thats where the time goes and plus customs always takes forever, so yes I am trusting their engineering skills enough to wait until they make a quality product.
I understand they're two different things. I'm guessing that being able to pilot a cargo ship isn't a pre-requisite for producing fake cases, just as I doubt you have to know how to mine or smelt ore to make the cases.

My point was: I am extremely skeptical about the ability of these companies to manage the quality control as well as hit the specs required to deliver a decent product if they can't even figure out how to ship something.

There's a reason the knock-offs are so cheap. The manufacturers cut every possible corner they can to create something that gives the illusion of quality. When you say "its only a matter of time until their replicas are close to near the same quality as the originals", I disagree. There may be a day when a knock-off looks like the original but it won't be anywhere near the same quality. The minute you compare tensile strength or compressive strength of the cases, I guarantee you the knock-offs won't come close to the real thing's specs.

What does that mean for the end-user? Perhaps nothing...Think of accidents as a bell-curve. At one end you have barely an accident...dropping your phone on a thick shag carpet...at the other end...catastrophic accidents...dropping your phone out a two story window say. So if a knock-off is decent perhaps it can prevent sixty percent of the accidents from doing damage to your iPhone. That's great if you're in the 60%. Let's say that the real thing protects you up to 90% of the bell curve. The question becomes how much of a gambler are you? How much are you willing to bet against the last 30%?

Bottom line: everything a company does reflects on everything a company does. From shipping to design to quality control. If one process is broken and never fixed, it is almost always the case that other processes are broken too. JMO
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:15 PM   #30
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You have no clue what you are talking about Jason. China is known for its reverse engineering pirate ways.

http://www.techautos.com/2010/02/26/chinas-byd-25-billion-reverse-engineering-specialist/

What makes you think if they can get a car right, that they can't reverse a simple iPhone case?
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 07:27 PM   #31
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You have no clue what you are talking about Jason. China is known for its reverse engineering pirate ways.
Seed me, I enjoy a spirited conversation and debate. I would suggest making absolute statements like "you have no clue what you are talking about" to be irritating to say the least. I hope we have room to disagree without taking personal shots.

You're comparing the fact that China reverse engineers automobiles for sale in their own country to counterfeiting iPhone cases?

Can you show me a car for sale in the US made by an owned and operated Chinese manufacturer that that has been "reverse engineered" based on a US, Japanese, or European model?

I didn't think so. This isn't about technology. It is about Intellectual Property.

The fact is, China has no respect for Intellectual Property laws. China has aggressively counterfeited popular brands for years...from Apple to "KFG".

Quote:
What makes you think if they can get a car right, that they can't reverse a simple iPhone case?
.

This has nothing to do with "engineering". Do you think the Chinese counterfeit Apple products "come close to near the same quality as the originals"? They don't. It is all about perception as I suggested earlier.

This has everything to do with making a fast buck.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:11 PM   #32
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Please post the pictures here.
Well, so far all I've gotten is a picture of the standard fake sector in the replica holster. It looks decent enough, she promises more pictures later.



The strap is too long, and the case itself is too narrow compared to the real thing, but it seems they're making quite the effort to replicate the product considering it has yet to be even released.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 10:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Partridge View Post
Well, so far all I've gotten is a picture of the standard fake sector in the replica holster. It looks decent enough, she promises more pictures later.

Image

The strap is too long, and the case itself is too narrow compared to the real thing, but it seems they're making quite the effort to replicate the product considering it has yet to be even released.
Looks good in the picture. I look forward to seeing the actual product.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:12 PM   #34
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Hi Jasonbaum,
My apologies for taking a jab at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonbaum View Post

Can you show me a car for sale in the US made by an owned and operated Chinese manufacturer that that has been "reverse engineered" based on a US, Japanese, or European model?
Humvee, hummer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humvee_...uring_in_China

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonbaum View Post
Do you think the Chinese counterfeit Apple products "come close to near the same quality as the originals"?
This is based on opinion. The fact is, that their (China) quality is good enough to trick > 90% of the public to not know the difference. I've shown many coworkers, friends and family fake cases without telling them and I get compliments all the time.

Last edited by Seed me; Dec 3, 2012 at 11:20 PM.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:13 PM   #35
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Designed and engineered in the US!
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:01 AM   #36
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Designed and engineered in the US!
They were designed and engineered in the US initially, but reverse engineered pre 90's. With the collapse in the market in 08-09 they were sold to a Chinese manufacture, which now supports existing warranty claims, parts and services. BTW you can still buy a Hummer in the US, which is built in the US.
The latest hummer from China, even less for the Hummer 3.
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2012/04...mmer-business/

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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:47 AM   #37
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Well, so far all I've gotten is a picture of the standard fake sector.
The black color is supposed to have black plastic. Not clear, right?
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:20 AM   #38
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They were designed and engineered in the US initially, but reverse engineered pre 90's. With the collapse in the market in 08-09 they were sold to a Chinese manufacture, which now supports existing warranty claims, parts and services. BTW you can still buy a Hummer in the US, which is built in the US.
The latest hummer from China, even less for the Hummer 3.
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2012/04...mmer-business/
The Hummer is not a counterfeit product.

Your defense of the quality of Chinese counterfeit products is fascinating. The fact that an automobile designed and engineered in the United States is now being made in China doesn't address any of the points I have made regarding the shoddy counterfeit market I thought we were discussing.

I would suggest you spend a little time googling (and reading) "China" and "Counterfeit Goods". As far as this rabbit hole this discussion has become is concerned, good luck and I hope your knock-off is everything you hope it is.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:47 AM   #39
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The black color is supposed to have black plastic. Not clear, right?
The fakes are all over the place color wise. There are red, blue, yellow. Some come with both clear and black plastic bits. Something Element should do considering how much we pay.

That said, I have a real sector black ops on the way. If the fake looks good enough I might pick one up just to compare it.

I've picked up some fake Chinese knives before and they ranged from pathetic imitation to oh **** I could have easily bought this at a gun show without knowing the difference good. If they want to, they can replicate anything.

As I've said, remember who builds your iPhones for you. It's not a lack of engineering or production ability. It's all about economics and how much effort and investment they want to put in. China isn't some third world backwater where they're putting things together with wooden sticks you know.

If they want to replicate something perfectly, you will be hard pressed to find a difference. The fact of the matter is, however, that cheap fakes are just that. Cheap fakes. They're built to a price point. The design work and market analysis is already done by somebody else(Element), so all the parasites have to do us figure out the reverse engineering (very easy for CNCd machine parts) and then build them to a price point.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:26 AM   #40
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The fakes are all over the place color wise. There are red, blue, yellow. Some come with both clear and black plastic bits. Something Element should do considering how much we pay.

That said, I have a real sector black ops on the way. If the fake looks good enough I might pick one up just to compare it.

I've picked up some fake Chinese knives before and they ranged from pathetic imitation to oh **** I could have easily bought this at a gun show without knowing the difference good. If they want to, they can replicate anything.

As I've said, remember who builds your iPhones for you. It's not a lack of engineering or production ability. It's all about economics and how much effort and investment they want to put in. China isn't some third world backwater where they're putting things together with wooden sticks you know.

If they want to replicate something perfectly, you will be hard pressed to find a difference. The fact of the matter is, however, that cheap fakes are just that. Cheap fakes. They're built to a price point. The design work and market analysis is already done by somebody else(Element), so all the parasites have to do us figure out the reverse engineering (very easy for CNCd machine parts) and then build them to a price point.
Couldn't agree more. I never meant to suggest the Chinese pirates don't have the ability to make virtually identical counterfeits. It just isn't in their economic interest to. Inferior materials. Lack of quality control. While in many many cases, the knock-off appears identical, the overall quality is driven by the price point and anyone who believes there are amazing deals to be had at ridiculously low price points with a level of quality that comes anywhere near the original product being knocked off is much more often than not, going to be disappointed.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:36 AM   #41
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My sector 5 has been shipped
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:37 AM   #42
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Couldn't agree more. I never meant to suggest the Chinese pirates don't have the ability to make virtually identical counterfeits. It just isn't in their economic interest to. Inferior materials. Lack of quality control. While in many many cases, the knock-off appears identical, the overall quality is driven by the price point and anyone who believes there are amazing deals to be had at ridiculously low price points with a level of quality that comes anywhere near the original product being knocked off is much more often than not, going to be disappointed.
Speed, quality, price. Pick two.

The fact is, however, that at such a low price point, and 60-80% of the quality, it's good enough for most people. For something like an iPhone case as opposed to, say, your car's ABS components, it's not really fair to argue function as a reason. It's a case. It'll work. It's a question of whether you're willing to pay for quality and for the real thing.

If you're looking for a perfect replica with a reasonable shipping time and customer service, it's not happening. When ordering this stuff from China you have to accept that at the price you're paying you risk shipping taking forever, getting one that slipped through QC, or it not getting through customs at all. I look at it as something you do for fun. Not as a real purchase.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:58 AM   #43
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Well, so far all I've gotten is a picture of the standard fake sector in the replica holster. It looks decent enough, she promises more pictures later.

Image

The strap is too long, and the case itself is too narrow compared to the real thing, but it seems they're making quite the effort to replicate the product considering it has yet to be even released.

That come with all the sector 5 or only black ops ??
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:57 AM   #44
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Neglecting the fact that labor costs, including costs for maintaing healthy work environments, health quality, etc. is the driving force behind outsourcing manufacturing to foreign countries, is a bit short sighted IMO. Forget supposed quality or craftsmanship differences... One of, if not the main reason behind the "Made In China" negativity is something the U.S. did to themselves. Why would any U.S. business man in a $10,000 Tom Ford suit choose to pay a factory worker here in the U.S., when minimum wage for a factory worker in China equates to about .24 cents per hour? Tax loopholes, actually giving tax breaks for moving a business to a different location (meant to be state-by-state, but instead complete tax breaks for moving to a foreign country), the real reason behind the cost difference.

We're a consumer driven country, and the big wigs up top pulling the strings have always known this. When we buy something Made in USA or Manufactured in USA, we don't just do it because it makes us feel like we're supporting our nation. We do it because we can tell the next Joe Somebody that comes along that "Yup, I bought Made in the USA", look at me now. You may not admit it, but it's a subconscious mindset.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:30 PM   #45
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Look, the quality of the fake cases isn't the same plane and simple, the cases from cases will aren't anodized their painted, mine came really bent and didnt fit my phone I bent it back into shape and the plastic parts were poorly made the element name is painted in not engraved, they aren't close to the quality of the real deal but they are also not completely bad I think their worth their price range
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:48 PM   #46
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Hi Jason.
I simply answered your question about reverse engineered vehicle being produced in China being sold in the US. The Humvee was reverse engineered, meaning tooled in the US and now being tooled in China and sold in the US. If you thought my answer was irrelevant than why did you even ask it to begin with?

If you have issues with fake goods then simply don't buy them. Ultimately, most people on these boards that buy fakes will continue to do so regardless of whatever you state. So enjoy your real iPhone case and be done with it.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:20 PM   #47
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Hi Jason.
I simply answered your question about reverse engineered vehicle being produced in China being sold in the US. The Humvee was reverse engineered, meaning tooled in the US and now being tooled in China and sold in the US. If you thought my answer was irrelevant than why did you even ask it to begin with?

If you have issues with fake goods then simply don't buy them. Ultimately, most people on these boards that buy fakes will continue to do so regardless of whatever you state. So enjoy your real iPhone case and be done with it.
I guess we have different ideas of what "reverse engineering" means. I associate it with third parties taking product apart to understand how they are made; sometimes as an educational exercise, often for counterfeiting purposes.

I have no issues with fake goods. My initial message was skepticism over counterfeits coming close to the quality of the originals.

Bottom line: I think Element Cases are overpriced and missing out on a helluva lot of people who feel the price point is a deal breaker. But what do I know?

All good!
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:27 PM   #48
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lol @ "reverse engineering" chinese humvees
well this got terribly off topic

so anyone actually put in an order for a replica sector 5?
state your case!
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:17 AM   #49
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TOFTT! . I'm looking forward to a review of this case. People that are interested in the Sector 5 Black Ops II- case can click here.

I ordered a knockoff FE gunmetal case. The seller seemed very trustworthy, so I gave it a shot. If interested, click here for her shop. She ships faster (2 days instead of 15-20 days) than the other sellers on aliexpress. I'll be posting a review once I get it.
Just got some pictures of their Sector 5-case. And I must say: it looks pretty legit.
EDIT: I got these pictures from the seller.

The normal sector 5-case: (Their cases seem to have black corners, yay! )


Black ops II sector 5-case accessories:

Last edited by Crushar; Dec 6, 2012 at 10:30 AM.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:13 AM   #50
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Just got some pictures of their Sector 5-case. And I must say: it looks pretty legit.

The normal sector 5-case: (Their cases seem to have black corners, yay! )
Image

Black ops II sector 5-case accessories:
Image
Awesome. Please post more pics of the case on the phone.
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