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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:09 AM   #26
syd430
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Don't know which state OP lives in, but heres another source that applies specifically to GA (I'm guessing the other states have similar "unlawful enrichment" laws):

http://consumer.georgia.gov/consumer...ed-merchandise

From the source:

It is a different matter if the mailing you received was due to a mistake by the company. In these circumstances, Georgia law regarding “unjust enrichment” obligates you to return the item paid for by another customer. The company, however, will have to pay postage and handling or make arrangements to pick it up.

Last edited by stridemat; Nov 30, 2012 at 02:52 AM. Reason: removed quote
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:32 AM   #27
joeyboyyy91
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I have to say I'm with Syd on this one.

The right thing to would be to call apple to make them aware of the situation.

However there is no law saying you cant do this tactfully...

You know never, they might turn around and say "Well we have no record of sending you 2 phones"

Therefore I would say you are free to keep, bit would urge you to make someone very happy at Christmas or at least make a donation to some kind of charity; you have been very lucky if this is the case and you don't want karma to come a calling.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:52 AM   #28
Kealohilani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
Don't know which state OP lives in, but heres another source that applies specifically to GA (I'm guessing the other states have similar "unlawful enrichment" laws):

From the source:

It is a different matter if the mailing you received was due to a mistake by the company. In these circumstances, Georgia law regarding “unjust enrichment” obligates you to return the item paid for by another customer. The company, however, will have to pay postage and handling or make arrangements to pick it up.
I am sorry but I don't see how either of the cases you cited are relevant to the current argument. I read your posting about the Georgia law carefully and it clearly states that "unjust enrichment" obligates you to return the item paid for by another customer (that is posted verbatim from your post). Another customer did not pay for this item, it was mistakenly sent by Apple. Therefore this is not the same thing.

As for the man who is facing jail time for keeping money deposited by accident in his account, the amounts alone makes this a different case entirely. Not saying you need to find a case that specifically says iphone but a case about a deposit for $70,000 is nowhere near the same as a case involving a phone that costs a few hundred dollars.

That being said, regardless of the fact that I do not believe it is illegal for you to keep the phone, you should return the phone. It is the moral thing to do
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:06 AM   #29
Damolee
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Simply.... do not do a thing.

Keep it in it's box, don't use it, don't call Apple. Don't do ANYTHING.

Don't give it away and simply.... wait. If you hear nothing within the next few months, then you can start to think about "other" moves.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:52 AM   #30
thewitt
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Take it into the nearest Apple store. You don't own it.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:22 AM   #31
TJ5921
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Sell it on craigslist for $300, throw down $30, buy an iPad Mini on Apple! I would do it in a second.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:26 AM   #32
utahusker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Take it into the nearest Apple store. You don't own it.
I'll have to agree with this gentleman. Although I would call Apple instead of going to a store.

My thinking, if there is no record of the phone, you may be giving the Apple Store employee a new phone
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:37 AM   #33
pnoyblazed
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do the right thing buddy.. karma is a bitch
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:37 AM   #34
Shrink
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Originally Posted by webworks415 View Post
Finders keepers. There's no record of one of the phones, so it doesn't exist.
Highly developed ethical system.
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Last edited by stridemat; Nov 30, 2012 at 02:54 AM. Reason: cleanup
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:44 AM   #35
VandyChem2009
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Clear your concious. Call Apple and see what they have to say. If there really is no record of the second phone I'd say the CSR will probably let you keep it.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:57 AM   #36
Cobster
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You know what to do...
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:59 AM   #37
BFizzzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
Don't know which state OP lives in, but heres another source that applies specifically to GA (I'm guessing the other states have similar "unlawful enrichment" laws):

http://consumer.georgia.gov/consumer...ed-merchandise

From the source:

It is a different matter if the mailing you received was due to a mistake by the company. In these circumstances, Georgia law regarding “unjust enrichment” obligates you to return the item paid for by another customer. The company, however, will have to pay postage and handling or make arrangements to pick it up.
i dont understand the confusion people. it is unjust enrichment in the USA. it varies from state to state but it is almost unanimous the if you are unjustly enriched.. and DO NOT INFORM the proper owner.. it is PASSIVE THEFT.

take a few minutes and google.

Last edited by stridemat; Nov 30, 2012 at 02:55 AM. Reason: cleanup
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:05 AM   #38
DoNoHarm
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Send it back, even if it takes an hour to do so. An iPhone is just a thing that you can buy whenever. Your honor and integrity is one of the most important things in life. You'll have to look at yourself in the mirror every day and an iPhone won't matter if deep down inside you aren't 100% sure you like what you see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayOfChaos View Post
Hey all, got an interesting story.

I recently called in to get a replacement iPhone. A very friendly lady gladly went though the process. She took my CC, and overnighted it. She even waived the fee for me. But, this is where the problem starts.

I checked the next day to see if the repair ID was on my support profile, no dice. I remember her giving me a repair ID, so I just called again asking if I could be told it again for records.

"I'm sorry, I don't see a repair in the system. In fact I don't even see a record that you spoke with her."

LOLWUT!? I was like, this has to be a mistake, I litteraly just talked to her.

"Sorry sir, there is no record of this. Infact, I can't even find it in your support profile." She then calls the Shipping department and repair department, and they have no record of anything being sent to me, or any repair. (Remember this, this becomes important.)

So I talked to a Senior Advisor, and we reset up the transaction. While she was doing her thing, I checked my CC online. There was a hold for $699.99. I asked her, you didn't submit this repair yet did you? No, I didn't. Well...I see a hold on my account dated yesterday (when I talked to the helpful woman). I'm like, well I guess the repair went though halfway, and I really don't want a hold on my account that doesn't exist, so can it be removed?

Apple, Bank of America and I were all on a three way. (It is a pretty funny to listen CSR vs CSR. lol)

No problem, that hold was removed. She then finished setting up my repair. This time, I got an email about it and everything, everything that was suppose to happen the first time.

Now it is Monday, I head off to school. I come home, and there is a FedEx note on my door that Apple sent a package and needed a signature. I thought to myself "Well..that was fast". But, I had lots of work and decided I would pick it up tomorrow.

The next day, Tuesday, I got note again saying they need a direct signature. Expected, but this time the FedEx slip said there were TWO packages from Apple. Now I got wondering, WTF did I get sent?

Long story, I go to FedEx, and there are TWO iPhone packages. Both the exact same. I get home, open them up, and sure enough, I have two iPhone 5's. Seperate boxes. One was dated Saturday (the day I called the first time) and one was dated Sunday, the time I called to get everything fixed.

The messed up repair was sent to me, along with the correct repair. The messed up repair has no return label that I can fold off and slap on, the like the correct does.

Other then that, everything is the same. Got the 'Help is here' guide, phone was mint, etc.

So I guess now, since I can't send it back, what should be the right thing to do?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:22 AM   #39
syd430
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Originally Posted by DoNoHarm View Post
Your honor and integrity is one of the most important things in life.
Says Dr Nick
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:39 AM   #40
Rhythmic-
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No backsies!

Seriously though, I'd call them and ask for a return label. Apple might not care much for a $700 phone, but The Man upstairs is taking notes.

In the event that you don't believe in God, it still comes down to you doing the right thing.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:45 AM   #41
LSUstang05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Take it into the nearest Apple store. You don't own it.
I agree with this and with Syd. You need to make a reasonable effort to contact Apple and get them their property back. If they tell you, after your reasonable effort, that they have no record of sending the phone and of you having it AND there is nothing they can/will do about it, you are free to keep it. I highly, HIGHLY, doubt Apple will do nothing about it though.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:49 AM   #42
ucfgrad93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swervinsuburban View Post
Problem is they have your CC number and the phone obviously has a serial number so when you try to activate it will show up in their system and they might charge you for it. My friend did this same thing kept the phone and had a nice little 900 dollar charge on his card like a month later.
This is what will likely happen if the OP keeps the phone. Eventually, Apple will figure it out and come looking for money. If it were me, I would send it back.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:53 AM   #43
bradl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Take it into the nearest Apple store. You don't own it.
For once, you and I agree.

It's really amazing to see the set of principles people here have been raised with, let alone how much their character can be bought for.

What if this other phone was someone else's repaired phone? here they are, expecting a shipment, that you have, and are now confused and pissed off, because their tracking says that it hasn't been delivered, and it has been a week or longer?

"finders keepers/losers weepers" may work on an elementary school playground, but I would expect that the lot here would have grown up and matured past that. I see that I am once again, proven wrong.

I'm on my way to work, but I'll return with a real life anecdote that was the result of doing the right thing.

But really people.. you really need to take a look at yourselves in the mirror and ask yourself if you would teach your children to just keep something like that without trying to return it or figure out who it belongs to.

BL.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:00 AM   #44
cruisencode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
For once, you and I agree.

It's really amazing to see the set of principles people here have been raised with, let alone how much their character can be bought for.

What if this other phone was someone else's repaired phone? here they are, expecting a shipment, that you have, and are now confused and pissed off, because their tracking says that it hasn't been delivered, and it has been a week or longer?

"finders keepers/losers weepers" may work on an elementary school playground, but I would expect that the lot here would have grown up and matured past that. I see that I am once again, proven wrong.

I'm on my way to work, but I'll return with a real life anecdote that was the result of doing the right thing.

But really people.. you really need to take a look at yourselves in the mirror and ask yourself if you would teach your children to just keep something like that without trying to return it or figure out who it belongs to.

BL.
Best post of the day, so far!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:08 AM   #45
rikscha
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Return it, it is not yours and you have no right to keep it even when you live in a country with very strange laws.

Keeping it is stealing and if you would like to have your name, family etc. associated with stealing, you should keep it.

What is there to think about? You are not losing on the deal and got what you wanted.

You should in fact put extra effort into returning it as the legal owner will be very happy about it and appreciate your effort.

You might be able to keep it after all or get a nice gift card.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:12 AM   #46
teknikal90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
My background is in corporate finance and professional services. I'm not a student. Don't lecture me about accounting principals. From the above quote, and given that your bringing up issues of materiality I can see that you fundamentally misunderstood what I meant by audit.

When you talk about 3-7% materiality for loss of inventory, what you are describing is E&Y's (or whoever's) quarterly audit as per required by the SEC. You are talking about a financial audit. I went out of my way to differentiate between a financial audit and the other types of audit a firm employs, often in real time, from offerings from SAP et al.

I take it you have no idea what Business intelligence or how firms utilize big data to detect fraud or monitor inventory, so maybe the following sources can help your understanding a little bit better:

http://www.sap.com/corporate-en/news.epx?PressID=19927

Taken from the above:

"As billions of records are stored and made ready for real-time analysis, users are can make better decisions regarding possible stock outs by adding predictive algorithms to sales data or detect fraudulent activities at the point of sale using the SAP® Loss Prevention Analytics for Retail application. Business users are intended to make better decisions regarding possible stock outs by applying predictive algorithms to sales data, assist store associates with personalized customer engagement to predict their next buy, deliver real-time POS audits and fraud detection and provide physical inventory information."

This of course is mainly referring to POS. But the application is there at the distributor level as well.

Please see here as well:

http://www.sybase.com/analyze/insurance/frauddetection



It's getting late in the evening here, I will do this tomorrow. Please make sure you check back.
Your background is corporate finance?
Oh really? Please tell me more. What do you do?
Thanks for the research by the way, I'm not from the US but I was curious on the topic.
but as for the SAP links you posted... Are you serious? You do know inventory is lost all the time right? And when they say fraud you do know what that means right?
And by the way, materiality is not a concept that's limited to financial audits. Noone is going to knock on the guys door for $250
Look I never said OP should keep it. I think it's wrong. But please don't waste your time on macrumors if its a case of "I don't know" and then spend further hours on google to research crap when pressed further by someone who was half asleep about to get to bed.
That's when a lot of misinformation happens
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:37 AM   #47
JAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy82 View Post
Isn't possession 9/10ths of the law in the US?
Not since we have a law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafflausages View Post
This is why you don't post stuff like this on macrumors. You'll always have people like syd who have nothing better to do with their life but to spend countless hours writing essays on forum topics.
This is more interesting than arguing over scratches on a phone. Some may even learn something, either from another poster or doing research to post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
Your background is corporate finance?
Oh really? Please tell me more. What do you do?
Thanks for the research by the way, I'm not from the US but I was curious on the topic.
but as for the SAP links you posted... Are you serious? You do know inventory is lost all the time right? And when they say fraud you do know what that means right?
And by the way, materiality is not a concept that's limited to financial audits. Noone is going to knock on the guys door for $250
Look I never said OP should keep it. I think it's wrong. But please don't waste your time on macrumors if its a case of "I don't know" and then spend further hours on google to research crap when pressed further by someone who was half asleep about to get to bed.
That's when a lot of misinformation happens
This is a POS situation, not inventory loss. The retail value is the one we would use, because that is what Apple has lost: the revenue, not the cost. So $699 in this case, I believe. Presumably, the revenue is recorded when the item is sent out.



I have not looked up every state's laws. But, mistaken delivery has its own rules, generally. The examples given about mistaken bank transfers or other means of theft do not apply. The ones I am familiar with require the recipient to make a reasonable attempt to return it. A phone call to Apple is generally considered "reasonable" for this situation, I believe. Many companies would ignore it and brush you off, at that point, it is yours. (make a record of the call, though) Apple, being what they are, I expect would respond immediately and request that the extra phone be returned. If it was an error in delivery because UPS misread the label, "reasonable" is to call UPS and inform them of a mistake, they will arrange to pick it up. Or just drop it at your neighbor's house.

Also, the post above about Apple potentially charging the OP is pretty accurate. It was a sale, as far as they are concerned. If they find it, they can legally charge for the phone. (after you've communicated with them, that is) Done.

Last edited by JAT; Nov 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:45 AM   #48
syd430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
Your background is corporate finance?
Oh really? Please tell me more. What do you do?
Previously TS at a Big 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
And when they say fraud you do know what that means right?
You do know that I was referring to the part about POS Audit right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
But please don't waste your time on macrumors if its a case of "I don't know" and then spend further hours on google to research crap when pressed further.
I didn't spend hours googling anything. Im already accustomed to BI, HANA etc.

Also what part of anything I said points to "I don't know". I just said that I don't live in the US, however there is commonwealth equivalent laws for this, and I was confident that similar laws apply in US. Turns out I was right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
Noone is going to knock on the guys door for $250
As I already said, it is unlikely anything will come from it. Just that the notion that an inventory with a serial number on it has no audit trail is laughable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
Yes. Prove me wrong
How come you didn't post anything about this? or the precedent I provided in regards to the mistaken wire transfer? Or how about the GA law below?

http://consumer.georgia.gov/consumer...ed-merchandise

Also, you've had two other posters confirm that other states have Unjust Enrichment laws similar to GA's in relation to goods received in the mail.

Were you going to admit that you were wrong?

Last edited by syd430; Nov 29, 2012 at 11:50 AM.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:10 PM   #49
JAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damolee View Post
Simply.... do not do a thing.

Keep it in it's box, don't use it, don't call Apple. Don't do ANYTHING.

Don't give it away and simply.... wait. If you hear nothing within the next few months, then you can start to think about "other" moves.
Unfortunately, you'll find the laws say you do have to do SOMEthing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Take it into the nearest Apple store. You don't own it.
However, this is too much. You don't have to go that far out of your way to handle their mistake. Make a phone call to Apple to return it. Esp for the OP, since there was a messy bunch of phone calls already that created the situation. It wasn't a random error, but specific to him.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:29 PM   #50
apollo1444
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you know what Steve Jobs would do?

He would keep it.
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