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Old Nov 29, 2012, 03:46 AM   #26
addicted44
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Tony Faddell is clearly biased. His idea, of basing the iPhone OS on the iPod OS was shot down in favor of Forstall's idea of basing it on Mac OS X. And I think this was the right decision.

That being said, I believe iOS6 clearly indicated that Forstall had to go. He is obviously a brilliant man, but I think he had run out of ideas. While iOS6 was a great update, it wasn't the revolution I believe Apple needs in the next couple of years. And there was no indication that Forstall would be able to deliver.

In most cases, running out of ideas personally is not a huge issue in a large talented company like Apple's, because there are so many other smart people whose ideas you can leverage. But this is where Forstall's inability to get along with anyone else would potentially be a dealbreaker, because (a) he was unlikely to accept others' ideas, and (b) others were unlikely to share their ideas with him.

Now, the obvious counterpoint is Steve Jobs, who also famously did not get along very well with most people. Ignoring the obvious counterpoint is that Steve Jobs was Steve Jobs, and there is unlikely to be another Steve, the reality is that no one ever displayed the kind of animosity towards Jobs that Faddell in this case is displaying towards Forstall (note, that it was almost certain that it was Jobs who made the decision to go with Forstall's OS as opposed to Faddell's, but yet Faddell only has praises for Jobs). I think the reason behind that is people believe that Forstall is hard to get along with because he is interested in his own personal gain. Even the people who disliked Steve Jobs, and thought that he was arrogant, etc. always believed that his actions were indeed motivated by bringing out the best product. They may not have liked his ideas about what the best product was, and may have hated his management style, but they never questioned his motivations. That does not seem to be true of Forstall, where, as indicated in the Businessweek profile, Forstall's colleagues believe his motivations are purely selfish.

I think iOS7 (or maybe iOS8, if the plans for iOS7 are already baked in) will be a huge indication of the direction Apple will be taking post-Forstall.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironsienna View Post
all the ignorants that hurray the expel of him
From most media reports, it seems that those "ignorants" are largely people within Apple, or as in the case of Faddell, are people with Apple who left there but without animosity towards the company.

I agree that Forstall deserves a lot of credit for iOS (and I agree that his basing it on OS X was a huge undertaking, which was far more effective than if it was based on the iPod's Pixo OS). That does not mean he was the right person necessarily to continue the job of improving iOS. It is obvious from media reports, and Apple's actions, that a significant part of Apple's management agrees with this. And with the direction iOS6 took, from a very far off (and obviously heavily underinformed) position, I also agree.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 03:52 AM   #27
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Join the Army... it's high school with guns.
Worse than High School... in a High School you had a principal or at least someone acting as an adult. In the army, even senior officers are acting like kids.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 03:52 AM   #28
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The question is, can the guys who took over for Forstall do better?
It would be hard to do worse, but not impossible
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 03:53 AM   #29
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I think a better title would be "Former Apple Exec Says Scott Forstall Deserved to be Ousted from Apple".
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:02 AM   #30
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When December comes around in a few days, Scott Forstall will breathe a big sigh of relief...... since Scott Forstall Hate Month (November) will officially be over.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:04 AM   #31
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I think it's a good move.
Seeing the "shredder" in Passbook made me wonder: this isn't iOS like... I remember reading how Forstall loved the animation, but Ive didn't. I agree with Ive.

I think the innovations made in the hardware perspective: Retina Macbook Pro, retina iPad, retina display, new iMac far outshines the innovations in iOS: Maps is half baked... Siri could be better, and I hate to say it, but there are a lot of features in iOS that were in Android already.

Now that Cue and Ive are the main people driving iOS, I'm excited to see what they will conjure up.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:15 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post
Tony Faddell is clearly biased. His idea, of basing the iPhone OS on the iPod OS was shot down in favor of Forstall's idea of basing it on Mac OS X. And I think this was the right decision.

That being said, I believe iOS6 clearly indicated that Forstall had to go. He is obviously a brilliant man, but I think he had run out of ideas. While iOS6 was a great update, it wasn't the revolution I believe Apple needs in the next couple of years. And there was no indication that Forstall would be able to deliver.

In most cases, running out of ideas personally is not a huge issue in a large talented company like Apple's, because there are so many other smart people whose ideas you can leverage. But this is where Forstall's inability to get along with anyone else would potentially be a dealbreaker, because (a) he was unlikely to accept others' ideas, and (b) others were unlikely to share their ideas with him.

Now, the obvious counterpoint is Steve Jobs, who also famously did not get along very well with most people. Ignoring the obvious counterpoint is that Steve Jobs was Steve Jobs, and there is unlikely to be another Steve, the reality is that no one ever displayed the kind of animosity towards Jobs that Faddell in this case is displaying towards Forstall (note, that it was almost certain that it was Jobs who made the decision to go with Forstall's OS as opposed to Faddell's, but yet Faddell only has praises for Jobs). I think the reason behind that is people believe that Forstall is hard to get along with because he is interested in his own personal gain. Even the people who disliked Steve Jobs, and thought that he was arrogant, etc. always believed that his actions were indeed motivated by bringing out the best product. They may not have liked his ideas about what the best product was, and may have hated his management style, but they never questioned his motivations. That does not seem to be true of Forstall, where, as indicated in the Businessweek profile, Forstall's colleagues believe his motivations are purely selfish.

I think iOS7 (or maybe iOS8, if the plans for iOS7 are already baked in) will be a huge indication of the direction Apple will be taking post-Forstall.

----------



From most media reports, it seems that those "ignorants" are largely people within Apple, or as in the case of Faddell, are people with Apple who left there but without animosity towards the company.

I agree that Forstall deserves a lot of credit for iOS (and I agree that his basing it on OS X was a huge undertaking, which was far more effective than if it was based on the iPod's Pixo OS). That does not mean he was the right person necessarily to continue the job of improving iOS. It is obvious from media reports, and Apple's actions, that a significant part of Apple's management agrees with this. And with the direction iOS6 took, from a very far off (and obviously heavily underinformed) position, I also agree.
good summary, very enlightening
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:17 AM   #33
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I've NEVER liked Forstall, he always seemed like an arrogant *******, adn i'm glad he's not apart of Apple anymore.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Mactendo View Post
First the godfather of the iPod left Apple, then Apple fires the godfather of iOS. Such a smart move.
Oh yes, you know better than the godfather of the iPod himself eh?

Everyone give this guy a round of applause
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:36 AM   #35
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NEWSFLASH - bloke who was elbowed out the door thinks it's a good thing that the main elbower has now been elbowed too.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:49 AM   #36
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i'm always confused about this situation. Before Forstall left, every iComplainer talked about how iOS hasn't innovated like ever, how maps sucked, how Siri wasn't as good as google voice.

now that the main guy in charge of it got ousted, we say Forstall is a visionary and Apple is doomed

i'm really confused
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:53 AM   #37
NovemberWhiskey
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Forstall always had this pompous arrogant look on his face during the keynotes, especially when he introduced maps.

I loved when he smugly drank from his water bottle, unknowingly sealing his fate as he spoke.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:06 AM   #38
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Man, I actually wished Forstall had continued to work at Apple. I think the current iOS is great. The only point I don't like is the Maps app, which can be improved if he was given time to reorganise the team like how Eddy is doing now.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:16 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by WatchTheThrone View Post
Reminds me of when Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple then came back....hhhhmmmm maybe he will be apples savior in the future
You insult Steve jobs legacy.

Jobs is a rarity.

Forstall you are no Steve Jobs.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:17 AM   #40
Jsameds
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Originally Posted by Beeplance View Post
Man, I actually wished Forstall had continued to work at Apple. I think the current iOS is great. The only point I don't like is the Maps app, which can be improved if he was given time to reorganise the team like how Eddy is doing now.
Give me 3 good, valid reasons to upgrade to iOS 6 from 5.1.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:18 AM   #41
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Man, I actually wished Forstall had continued to work at Apple. I think the current iOS is great. The only point I don't like is the Maps app, which can be improved if he was given time to reorganise the team like how Eddy is doing now.
You're kidding

iOS is bland and needs innovation.

Passport? Blah

That's not innovation. That's solving a problem nobody had

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenDarkness View Post
i'm always confused about this situation. Before Forstall left, every iComplainer talked about how iOS hasn't innovated like ever, how maps sucked, how Siri wasn't as good as google voice.

now that the main guy in charge of it got ousted, we say Forstall is a visionary and Apple is doomed

i'm really confused
Ill clear it up. People are bored.

They need someone to replace Jobs.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:44 AM   #42
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Anyone else a bit worried by public comments like these?

If he wasn't good for the company, it's good that he's gone, fine. But what's to be gained by a public "Nah...nah... we're thrilled he's gone" (Faddell is no longer in Apple, but the reports of applause when Forstall was fired, or 'anonymous' sources within Apple commenting). There are politics and battles of egos in every big company, it's unavoidable. But public sniping like this is a bit petty and juvenile, and does nothing other than sour the atmosphere - particularly if Forstall still has a role at Apple for some months.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:58 AM   #43
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Reminds me of when Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple then came back....hhhhmmmm maybe he will be apples savior in the future
Skeuomorphism to the rescue!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:03 AM   #44
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I lost faith in Forstall the moment iOS 6 was released. The colour changing status bar looks horrible, the new App Store and iTunes Store are harder to navigate and ugly, the new music app looks tacky, and the OS is lacking any notable new features since Siri.

I really doubt Steve would have accepted such mediocrity.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:04 AM   #45
Solomani
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Originally Posted by whooleytoo View Post
Anyone else a bit worried by public comments like these?

If he wasn't good for the company, it's good that he's gone, fine. But what's to be gained by a public "Nah...nah... we're thrilled he's gone" (Faddell is no longer in Apple, but the reports of applause when Forstall was fired, or 'anonymous' sources within Apple commenting). There are politics and battles of egos in every big company, it's unavoidable. But public sniping like this is a bit petty and juvenile, and does nothing other than sour the atmosphere - particularly if Forstall still has a role at Apple for some months.
You are absolutely correct. (Sadly, no one can tell Faddell to shutup since he works for himself now)

Negative Apple politics like this does not benefit Apple whatsoever. It only adds FUD to the Apple ecosystem. It poisons confidence in Apple, especially among investors. The only ones that benefit and get a smile from this negativity are Apple's fiercest rivals, Samsung and Google -- the same ones that want Apple to fail miserably.

If a manager did not perform to his company's expectations, then he is let go, or pressured to leave. It happens plenty of times every month among the top Fortune 500 companies. You don't hear about those guys, do you?

Forstall was let go. His fate is not unique. We should just let it be. Leave the guy alone. Imagine what guilt and embarrassment he is already going through in his life because of this. He was ejected from one of the most well-known companies on the planet. Imagine him trying to explain that to his wife? His family? His friends? His dog!?


Well... his dog will still love him unconditionally.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:05 AM   #46
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Maybe we'll see a less Skeuomorphoric and half baked iOS now he has gone. Maybe we'll see some actual improvement to OS X as well instead of just recycled iOS features.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:06 AM   #47
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Dirt is good!? Forestall was apparently Jobs' pet, and at one time was groomed for CEO. It seems he suffered a crisis when circumstances spawned a new boss, his second ever in his entire professional working career, a former IBMer named Tim Cook who didn't tether Forestall like Jobs did.

I think Forestall is kept on the payroll to keep him hush. What can he possibly contribute on the Apple campus if he's blacklisted? Perhaps he's been banned from Infinite Loop, just take the pay and shutup until April.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:15 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post
Tony Faddell is clearly biased. His idea, of basing the iPhone OS on the iPod OS was shot down in favor of Forstall's idea of basing it on Mac OS X. And I think this was the right decision.
According to insiders, Faddell wanted to use Linux, not the iPod OS.

However, apparently he (and Jobs) did at first want to make more or less an iPod with a phone built-in, even using the trackwheel as the input. Thank goodness that didn't pan out, and they went with a touchscreen instead.

--

One note about Forstall: he reportedly was held responsible for the infamous lost iPhone 4 prototype, because he talked Jobs into letting his engineers carry test phones around. (Personally, I think he had a good idea.)
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:18 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by FrozenDarkness View Post
i'm always confused about this situation. Before Forstall left, every iComplainer talked about how iOS hasn't innovated like ever, how maps sucked, how Siri wasn't as good as google voice.

now that the main guy in charge of it got ousted, we say Forstall is a visionary and Apple is doomed

i'm really confused
The only confusion stems from the fact you're imagining MR to be the Borg, where there are no individuals, only this big collective opinion.

People that say iOS hasn't innovated, Maps suck, Siri isn't as good as Google Now aren't the same people calling Forstall a visionary.

No confusion really, as long as you understand that a forum is a mass of individuals that don't all share a common opinion.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:35 AM   #50
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Sometimes to create you have to destroy.
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