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Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:54 AM   #1
Cockney Rebel
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Overlooking such obvious flaws ... ?

I'm a bit confused with this one (as many others are).

Apple is a "product company", who prides itself on coming up with great offerings.

They are obsessed with detail, which is evident in the aesthetics of their designs.

So taking the above into account ... how can they overlook such obvious design flaws?

When I say obvious design flaws, I am talking specifically about the iPhone 4 with its "antenna gate", and the iPhone 5 with the chipping issue re the banding.

I mean, come on ... these flaws are OBVIOUS.

Consumers & reviewers clocked the issues IMMEDIATELY so how on earth did a company such as Apple not "notice" them?

Surely this is what R&D is all about?

Surely testing would have highlighted these issues?

Common sense will tell you that if you simply paint over something which is intended for day-in-day-out use, it will be prone to chipping?

Similarly ... selling a phone which has to be held a certainly way for it to actually perform its primary role is surely absurd?

I mean, come on?

Maybe I'm just a bit wound up because I just receive my third flawed iPhone 5 (dead pixels) but it has really got me thinking ... what is Apple on?

Regardless of whether one can live with dead pixels, and tolerance and bla, bla, bla ... issues such as antenna gate and scuff gate are surely OBVIOUS flaws which any designer (let alone the most wealthy designer in the world) would realise before they put their product out there?

I have studied design & innovation at degree level and I can tell you, hand on heart, that these flaws would not have gone unnoticed under my watch ...
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:00 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
I'm a bit confused with this one (as many others are).

Apple is a "product company", who prides itself on coming up with great offerings.

They are obsessed with detail, which is evident in the aesthetics of their designs.

So taking the above into account ... how can they overlook such obvious design flaws?

When I say obvious design flaws, I am talking specifically about the iPhone 4 with its "antenna gate", and the iPhone 5 with the chipping issue re the banding.

I mean, come on ... these flaws are OBVIOUS.

Consumers & reviewers clocked the issues IMMEDIATELY so how on earth did a company such as Apple not "notice" them?

Surely this is what R&D is all about?

Surely testing would have highlighted these issues?

Common sense will tell you that if you simply paint over something which is intended for day-in-day-out use, it will be prone to chipping?

Similarly ... selling a phone which has to be held a certainly way for it to actually perform its primary role is surely absurd?

I mean, come on?

Maybe I'm just a bit wound up because I just receive my third flawed iPhone 5 (dead pixels) but it has really got me thinking ... what is Apple on?

Regardless of whether one can live with dead pixels, and tolerance and bla, bla, bla ... issues such as antenna gate and scuff gate are surely OBVIOUS flaws which any designer (let alone the most wealthy designer in the world) would realise before they put their product out there?

I have studied design & innovation at degree level and I can tell you, hand on heart, that these flaws would not have gone unnoticed under my watch ...
Mistakes happen, no matter how smart (wealth is irrelevant) people are.
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Last edited by r2shyyou; Nov 29, 2012 at 11:11 AM. Reason: added missing word: "how"
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:03 AM   #3
rmhop81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
I'm a bit confused with this one (as many others are).

Apple is a "product company", who prides itself on coming up with great offerings.

They are obsessed with detail, which is evident in the aesthetics of their designs.

So taking the above into account ... how can they overlook such obvious design flaws?

When I say obvious design flaws, I am talking specifically about the iPhone 4 with its "antenna gate", and the iPhone 5 with the chipping issue re the banding.

I mean, come on ... these flaws are OBVIOUS.

Consumers & reviewers clocked the issues IMMEDIATELY so how on earth did a company such as Apple not "notice" them?

Surely this is what R&D is all about?

Surely testing would have highlighted these issues?

Common sense will tell you that if you simply paint over something which is intended for day-in-day-out use, it will be prone to chipping?

Similarly ... selling a phone which has to be held a certainly way for it to actually perform its primary role is surely absurd?

I mean, come on?

Maybe I'm just a bit wound up because I just receive my third flawed iPhone 5 (dead pixels) but it has really got me thinking ... what is Apple on?

Regardless of whether one can live with dead pixels, and tolerance and bla, bla, bla ... issues such as antenna gate and scuff gate are surely OBVIOUS flaws which any designer (let alone the most wealthy designer in the world) would realise before they put their product out there?

I have studied design & innovation at degree level and I can tell you, hand on heart, that these flaws would not have gone unnoticed under my watch ...
the people that "notice" this stuff immediately are the people that are "looking" for issues when they get an item instead of just opening the package and enjoy what you got. Go back to when the iPhone 5 was released....some ***** scratched the back of an iPhone 5 at an Apple Store to prove his point that the paint will come off. Well guess what, you scratched it with a paperclip of course the paint is going to scratch off.

OMGZ the screen is made of glass and cracked when I dropped it. well, it's made of glass so yes, it will crack when you drop it.

Many of these people are the ones that post they've been to the apple store 15 times before they got a "flawless" device.

I don't believe any of these issues anymore bc there are far too many that are too picky and are looking for issues.

I'm not saying that there aren't problems with new products from Apple. But how does one guy manage to get 15 bad iPhones when other peoples are perfectly fine.

Apple is now catering to the masses. They are selling far more devices than ever. There may be a few bad apples sure, but people going through 15-20 iphones is ridiculous and not a true representation of apple products.

The problem escalates with 2,000 threads about the apparent "scuffgate" etc. Then you drag in people who are now going to be super picky when getting their new items. You are going to have more people be negative than positive which is why you see so many threads.

Media hype and forum hype is a big problem.

Quit looking for so many issues and just enjoy your products!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:06 AM   #4
MonkeySee....
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Flaws for some, no flaws for others.

by the way....
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmhop81 View Post
the people that "notice" this stuff immediately are the people that are "looking" for issues when they get an item instead of just opening the package and enjoy what you got. Go back to when the iPhone 5 was released....some ***** scratched the back of an iPhone 5 at an Apple Store to prove his point that the paint will come off. Well guess what, you scratched it with a paperclip of course the paint is going to scratch off.

OMGZ the screen is made of glass and cracked when I dropped it. well, it's made of glass so yes, it will crack when you drop it.

Many of these people are the ones that post they've been to the apple store 15 times before they got a "flawless" device.

I don't believe any of these issues anymore bc there are far too many that are too picky and are looking for issues.

I'm not saying that there aren't problems with new products from Apple. But how does one guy manage to get 15 bad iPhones when other peoples are perfectly fine.

Apple is now catering to the masses. They are selling far more devices than ever. There may be a few bad apples sure, but people going through 15-20 iphones is ridiculous and not a true representation of apple products.

Quit looking for so many issues and just enjoy your products!
... are you serious?

Receiving an iPhone with chips to the bodywork is imagination?

Having to hold a phone a certain way or you lose the signal is imagination?

Come on buddy, be real?

I FULLY understand your comment where mistakes happen, but OBVIOUS design flaws such as the ones I pointed out are unforgivable.

Especially for a company that spouts on about how they "thrive on perfection".

At the end of the day, talk is cheap and money builds houses ...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
Flaws for some, no flaws for others.

by the way....
Clever you!!

WOW, that's some skill you have there!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:13 AM   #6
BaldiMac
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Design is about managing tradeoffs. I doubt your "obvious flaws" were overlooked. Their potential impact was simply weighed against other considerations. Apple's biggest "problem" in this area is arguably managing the media/expectations.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:13 AM   #7
rmhop81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
... are you serious?

Receiving an iPhone with chips to the bodywork is imagination?

Having to hold a phone a certain way or you lose the signal is imagination?

Come on buddy, be real?

I FULLY understand your comment where mistakes happen, but OBVIOUS design flaws such as the ones I pointed out are unforgivable.

Especially for a company that spouts on about how they "thrive on perfection".

At the end of the day, talk is cheap and money builds houses ...
again, a few bad apples sure. but for ONE guy to receive 15, i just DON'T believe that! I had an iPhone 4 with the apparent antennagate....i didn't have that problem? If you smother your phone with your hands of course the signal will die down....it's like that on most phones. How is it a design flaw when someone scratches it with the rough part of a paperclip? Go take the rough part of a paperclip to the side of your car....what do you think will happen?

OMGZ paperclipscratchgate on my new truck, i should return it!!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Design is about managing tradeoffs. I doubt your "obvious flaws" were overlooked. Their potential impact was simply weighed against other considerations. Apple's biggest "problem" in this area is arguably managing the media/expectations.
Antennagate WAS a design flaw ... even Apple held their hands up to the fact.

Why do you think they started offering bumpers for free?

Why do you think they changed the design of the antenna for the 4S?

Come on, be real?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:17 AM   #9
rmhop81
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Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
Antennagate WAS a design flaw ... even Apple held their hands up to the fact.

Why do you think they started offering bumpers for free?

Why do you think they changed the design of the antenna for the 4S?

Come on, be real?
if it's really a design flaw how would a rubber bumper fix the issue ?

give something free...and peeps won't complain....

was all a media hype
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:19 AM   #10
MonkeySee....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
... are you serious?

Receiving an iPhone with chips to the bodywork is imagination?

Having to hold a phone a certain way or you lose the signal is imagination?

Come on buddy, be real?

I FULLY understand your comment where mistakes happen, but OBVIOUS design flaws such as the ones I pointed out are unforgivable.

Especially for a company that spouts on about how they "thrive on perfection".

At the end of the day, talk is cheap and money builds houses ...

----------



Clever you!!

WOW, that's some skill you have there!
Not as clever as your sig....
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:20 AM   #11
Skika
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Never had an issue with dropped calls on iPhone 4, dont have scuffing/bending/whatever issue on my iPhone 5.

Regards,

Me and other 99% of iPhone users.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:20 AM   #12
Shrink
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I mean, come on...how come you still buy this Apple crap?

I mean, come on, you should have figured out by now Apple ships damaged junk!

I mean, come on, QA is nonexistent!

I mean, come on...

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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:22 AM   #13
JayLenochiniMac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmhop81 View Post
the people that "notice" this stuff immediately are the people that are "looking" for issues when they get an item instead of just opening the package and enjoy what you got.

Quit looking for so many issues and just enjoy your products!
You can't do this with iPhones that arrive full of obvious nicks and scuffs out of the box. We're not talking about anal-retentive people who "look" for issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
Antennagate WAS a design flaw ... even Apple held their hands up to the fact.

Why do you think they started offering bumpers for free?

Why do you think they changed the design of the antenna for the 4S?

Come on, be real?
Except this flaw wasn't as that obvious due to the limited real world testing before mass production. Even so, not everyone (including me) had this problem, unlike obviously damaged iPhones with nicks and scuffs that'll affect 100% of people who receive them.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:22 AM   #14
Cockney Rebel
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Originally Posted by rmhop81 View Post
again, a few bad apples sure. but for ONE guy to receive 15, i just DON'T believe that! I had an iPhone 4 with the apparent antennagate....i didn't have that problem? If you smother your phone with your hands of course the signal will die down....it's like that on most phones. How is it a design flaw when someone scratches it with the rough part of a paperclip? Go take the rough part of a paperclip to the side of your car....what do you think will happen?

OMGZ paintgate on my new truck, i should return it!!
You can say that, but people expect perfection when they pay a premium.

Using your car analogy ... if you was to buy a cheap car, you may be willing to overlook a flaw or two. But if you was to buy a nice Beamer, or Merc, you would expect the car to arrive completely flaw free. No?

The value of something has to reflect its quality ... in every way.

15 replacements is diabolical and I would have simply given up long before then if I wasn't satisfied.

The flaws that I mention are obvious, and that is the only point I'm making ...
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:24 AM   #15
r2shyyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
Antennagate WAS a design flaw ... even Apple held their hands up to the fact.

Why do you think they started offering bumpers for free?

Why do you think they changed the design of the antenna for the 4S?

Come on, be real?
I agree that this was a design flaw but do you really expect Apple to be flawless all the time? Or for anyone to be?

Unless you're a jazz musician , everyone makes mistakes.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
I mean, come on...how come you still buy this Apple crap?

I mean, come on, you should have figured out by now Apple ships damaged junk!

I mean, come on, QA is nonexistent!

I mean, come on...

... you should write professionally
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:26 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
You can say that, but people expect perfection when they pay a premium.

Using your car analogy ... if you was to buy a cheap car, you may be willing to overlook a flaw or two. But if you was to buy a nice Beamer, or Merc, you would expect the car to arrive completely flaw free. No?

The value of something has to reflect its quality ... in every way.

15 replacements is diabolical and I would have simply given up long before then if I wasn't satisfied.

The flaws that I mention are obvious, and that is the only point I'm making ...
Every products have flaws whether you pay premium or not. Your rant does not make sense. People buy Apple products because they like using their OS and ecosystem. If you expect everything to work flawlessly you're just expecting too much. There will not be a genius bar at Apple stores if all their products work.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
how can they overlook such obvious design flaws?
Because at the end of the day, they know that people like you will come back time and time and time and time again to buy their products regardless. Your other thread says you're on your 3rd or 4th iPhone replacement (showing dedication to the brand) and you just bought a 4th gen iPad, right?

Why be concerned with details when they don't need to be?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
Antennagate WAS a design flaw ... even Apple held their hands up to the fact.
Of course if was a design flaw. As they pointed out, signal attenuation is a flaw with many cell phones. They just had the unique problem of a well publicized spot where the signal dropped significantly. However, the underpublicized benefit of the external antenna was that it significantly improved reception over the previous iPhones.

But most customers don't dismiss a product because of a single "flaw". They weigh the problems with the benefits. Supply for the iPhone 4 was still behind demand 7 months after it was released. Seems like Apple managed the design tradeoffs pretty well!

Quote:
Why do you think they started offering bumpers for free?
To manage the media problem and appease customers who considered it a problem.

Quote:
Why do you think they changed the design of the antenna for the 4S?
Because technology improved to the point that they could.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:47 AM   #20
Interstella5555
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Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
I'm a bit confused with this one (as many others are).
Many others? You mean the relativly low percentage of people on MR that complain?

Apple is a "product company", who prides itself on coming up with great offerings.
True
They are obsessed with detail, which is evident in the aesthetics of their designs.
Yup, Johnny and Steve had a lot in common
So taking the above into account ... how can they overlook such obvious design flaws?
Design flaws? Or production flaws?
When I say obvious design flaws, I am talking specifically about the iPhone 4 with its "antenna gate Well, you pretty much ended your own argument. I'm not even writing those words, but what you're referring to was wildly overblown by the media. If that was actually such a problem there would be hundredes of thousands of returns (and signal depreciation has happened to all phones ever manufactured) and the iPhone 5 with the chipping issue re the banding. Yes, small percentages of the intial batch had this problem which is largely no longre the case

I mean, come on ... these flaws are OBVIOUS.

Consumers & reviewers clocked the issues IMMEDIATELY so how on earth did a company such as Apple not "notice" them?
and yet people are still buying the phones by the millions. And Apple is replacing them if people come in.
Surely this is what R&D is all about?

Surely testing would have highlighted these issues?
kind of hard to test a production issue, surely you can understand that
Common sense will tell you that if you simply paint over something which is intended for day-in-day-out use, it will be prone to chipping?
No part of my phone has paint on it, where did you buy yours?
Similarly ... selling a phone which has to be held a certainly way for it to actually perform its primary role is surely absurd?
Now what are you going on about? If you're refering to blocking the antanna then yes, every phone ever manufactured is a bit absurd.

I mean, come on? these flaws are OBVIOUS

Maybe I'm just a bit wound up because I just receive my third flawed iPhone 5 (dead pixels) but it has really got me thinking ... what is Apple on?
then maybe you should try and relax.

Regardless of whether one can live with dead pixels, and tolerance and bla, bla, bla ... issues such as antenna gate and scuff gate are surely OBVIOUS flaws which any designer (let alone the most wealthy designer in the world) would realise before they put their product out there?

I have studied design & innovation at degree level and I can tell you, hand on heart, that these flaws would not have gone unnoticed under my watch ... Apple must have really missed the boat not hiring you then. If only they had and you personally inspected every phone out there maybe, just maybe, they would have sold more than 100 million phones. Oh wait...
Did this really require two nearly identical threads in less than 30 minutes?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Cockney Rebel View Post
So taking the above into account ... how can they overlook such obvious design flaws?

When I say obvious design flaws, I am talking specifically about the iPhone 4 with its "antenna gate", and the iPhone 5 with the chipping issue re the banding.
It's all easy to explain with Apple's culture of secrecy.

Ever since the first iPhone, field testing has been done with units covered in camouflage cases.

This prevents scuffing, and it prevented the touch-point antenna problem.

Moreover, employees are discouraged from casually talking to each other about secret projects, so even if several testers noticed something odd once in a while, it's very unlikely that they'd make the necessary "aha!" connection without comparing notes with others. Instead, they'd just write off a reception problem as a rare glitch, not knowing that others were doing the same thing.

A better, but less secret, testing scheme would be to give out a new model to hundreds of employees and really get some good feedback in group meetings. However, that's not Apple's way.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:11 PM   #22
smellysox8
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Originally Posted by rmhop81 View Post
the people that "notice" this stuff immediately are the people that are "looking" for issues

Quit looking for so many issues and just enjoy your products
Yeah blame the consumer for a company's poop product. ROFL
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:20 PM   #23
rmhop81
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Yeah blame the consumer for a company's poop product. ROFL
yeah wow, the sales numbers just reflect the "poop" product.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:21 PM   #24
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yeah wow, the sales numbers just reflect the "poop" product.
Justin Bieber.


What were you saying about sales again? ROFL
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:36 PM   #25
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this is coming from a guy that likes smelly socks and poop.
Resorting to personal attacks now that the you have lost? Typical.
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