Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > Mac Pro

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 30, 2012, 04:01 AM   #1
yfile
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
MacPro Multi GPU onboard

Imagination Technologies says that the PowerVR 6 series will offer performance up to 1 TFLOPS.
I wonder whether it would be possible and reasonable to put a several such GPU processors on new MacPro 2013 motherboard for OpenCL calculations in addition to regular CPU.

Last edited by yfile; Dec 1, 2012 at 01:16 AM.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:41 PM   #2
goMac
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
Imagination Technologies says that the PowerVR 6 series will offer performance up to 1 TFLOPS.
I wonder whether it would be possible and reasonable to put a several such GPU processors on MacPro motherboard for OpenCL calculations in addition to regular CPU.
The 5770 that comes stock on Mac Pros already can do 1.36 TFLOPs and they're horribly dated. Even the 5870 does 2.72. Just put a modern GPU in the Mac Pro and it'll probably be cheaper and faster than having a custom board with PowerVR 6s.
goMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:59 PM   #3
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
I'm thinking about the use of 10 or more such GPUs on the motherboard. Maybe a lot more on PCIE cards or connected with thunderbolt. I think it could be fast and power efficient.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 06:22 PM   #4
ActionableMango
macrumors 68040
 
ActionableMango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
What 10 GPU connections on the motherboard are you talking about? Are you remotely familiar with the Mac Pro?
ActionableMango is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 01:11 AM   #5
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
I am talking about cluster of 10 PowerVR GPUs (for example) connected to PCIE line in MacPro 2013.

Last edited by yfile; Dec 1, 2012 at 01:29 AM.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:44 AM   #6
Concorde Rules
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
I am talking about cluster of 10 PowerVR GPUs (for example) connected to PCIE line in MacPro 2013.
Won't happen because it takes up space and the new Mac Pro will have a GPU that generates 5+ TFlops (or whatever the 7000 or 6xx series does).

Waste of time, money and space. Won't happen. Period.
Concorde Rules is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:09 AM   #7
El Awesome
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
10 PCIe lanes???
I don't even know a PC motherboard that provides you 10 PCIe lanes.
El Awesome is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:18 AM   #8
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
10 GPUs one cluster connected to 1 or more PCIE lines, like multiprocessor accelerator.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde Rules View Post
Waste of time, money and space. Won't happen. Period.
Why?
The same I could say about top AMD or NVIDIA cards.
It could be interesting to compare size, price and performance.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 05:59 AM   #9
Concorde Rules
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
10 GPUs one cluster connected to 1 or more PCIE lines, like multiprocessor accelerator.

----------



Why?
The same I could say about top AMD or NVIDIA cards.
It could be interesting to compare size, price and performance.
Do you mean 10 GPU cores or 10 GPU dies?

The former is like every other GPU out there, the latter won't happen because A) It won't fit, B) expense, C) difficulties in integrating 10 GPUs...


Even if it is 1 GFLOPS, the 7970 gives out 4300 GFLOPS (4.3 TFLOPS). So what would be the point when the 8970 would give out ~6?

Does the PowerVR chip support openCL?
Concorde Rules is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 08:30 AM   #10
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde Rules View Post
Do you mean 10 GPU cores or 10 GPU dies?

The former is like every other GPU out there, the latter won't happen because A) It won't fit, B) expense, C) difficulties in integrating 10 GPUs...


Even if it is 1 GFLOPS, the 7970 gives out 4300 GFLOPS (4.3 TFLOPS). So what would be the point when the 8970 would give out ~6?

Does the PowerVR chip support openCL?
I mean many PowerVR GPUs dies on motherboard/PCIE card.
A) The die size is about 10 mm2
B) Apple A6 costs $28, so I think one PowerVR GPU will not cost more
C) This is my main question. Maybe there is on this forum a technology enthusiast - engineer who could answer this question?

Indeed 7970 is powerful chip, but power hungry, hot and huge. Installing more than 1 such card in today MacPro is difficult.

Yes, PowerVR6 chip support OpenCL 1.X, OpenGL 4 and probably DirectX 11.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 09:55 AM   #11
Concorde Rules
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
I mean many PowerVR GPUs dies on motherboard/PCIE card.
A) The die size is about 10 mm2
B) Apple A6 costs $28, so I think one PowerVR GPU will not cost more
C) This is my main question. Maybe there is on this forum a technology enthusiast - engineer who could answer this question?

Indeed 7970 is powerful chip, but power hungry, hot and huge. Installing more than 1 such card in today MacPro is difficult.

Yes, PowerVR6 chip support OpenCL 1.X, OpenGL 4 and probably DirectX 11.
Firstly, your in a fantasy world (and I'm sorry to say limited of your knowledge in electronics) if anybody other than a large company has the ability to create such a card.

Secondly, your suggesting that a 10mm^2 chip will produce 1 TFLOP, where is this data from?

The GPU in the iPad is 25.6 GFLOPS (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6324/t...rmance-preview), so where is this 10mm^2 going to produce 1 TFLOP?

Thirdly, the die itself might be 10mm^2, but all the supporting electronics, connections, memory subsystems and what not takes up space and costs . Why do you think Intel and AMD are moving more and more of the things that used to be on motherboards (Northbridge, Memory Controllers, etc) to the CPU itself?


Finally, 10 dies != 10x the compute performance. You have overheads, limitations in the PCI-E interface, extremely limited driver set compared to current cards, etc, etc, etc.

If there was a market for this, somebody would have done it already.

Sorry to burst your bubble!!
Concorde Rules is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:12 AM   #12
theSeb
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Poole, England
Good thread. Thank you for the giggle.
__________________
What is Other on my HDD?
Throttling, overheating and Geekbench
theSeb is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:25 AM   #13
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde Rules View Post
Firstly, your in a fantasy world (and I'm sorry to say limited of your knowledge in electronics) if anybody other than a large company has the ability to create such a card.

Secondly, your suggesting that a 10mm^2 chip will produce 1 TFLOP, where is this data from?

The GPU in the iPad is 25.6 GFLOPS (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6324/t...rmance-preview), so where is this 10mm^2 going to produce 1 TFLOP?

Thirdly, the die itself might be 10mm^2, but all the supporting electronics, connections, memory subsystems and what not takes up space and costs . Why do you think Intel and AMD are moving more and more of the things that used to be on motherboards (Northbridge, Memory Controllers, etc) to the CPU itself?


Finally, 10 dies != 10x the compute performance. You have overheads, limitations in the PCI-E interface, extremely limited driver set compared to current cards, etc, etc, etc.

If there was a market for this, somebody would have done it already.

Sorry to burst your bubble!!
I know I'm in fantasy world

I'm not sure PowerVR6 is 10mm2, but largest PowerVR5XT 8,7mm2 manufactured in 40um technology (PowerVR6 is 20 um) and both are designed for mobile devices.

I don't know how it could produce 1TFLOP - ask Imagination Technology.

I know it is not easy but I think Apple is one company can do this if it's possible.

"...If there was a market for this, somebody would have done it already..."
Luckily many people think different. That's why we have iPhone, iPad, Retina etc, etc, etc...
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:38 AM   #14
Concorde Rules
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
I know I'm in fantasy world

I'm not sure PowerVR6 is 10mm2, but largest PowerVR5XT 8,7mm2 manufactured in 40um technology (PowerVR6 is 20 um) and both are designed for mobile devices.

I don't know how it could produce 1TFLOP - ask Imagination Technology.

I know it is not easy but I think Apple is one company can do this if it's possible.

"...If there was a market for this, somebody would have done it already..."
Luckily many people think different. That's why we have iPhone, iPad, Retina etc, etc, etc...
There is a market for those items.

What your suggesting is a highly unique thing that only really supercomputer makers would order. They have Xeon Phi, Nvidias tesla cards, etc...
Concorde Rules is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 05:00 PM   #15
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde Rules View Post
There is a market for those items.

What your suggesting is a highly unique thing that only really supercomputer makers would order. They have Xeon Phi, Nvidias tesla cards, etc...
I think many of us need supercomputer at home. Scientists, students, motion graphers, architects, 3D designers, animators and more. MacBooks and iMacs are great computers, but from my point of view just a toys. Mac Pro just can't be replaced with these toys, not today, not tomorrow. You can record great music album with 8-track recorder but you can't compare it to true pro recording studio.
Many people still waiting for new workstation from Apple and its great time to create something more than HP/Dell like computer with OSX installed.
Maybe its naive but I hope for something groundbreaking. Like NeXT 2013.

Thank you for Xeon Phi info.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:00 PM   #16
All Taken
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
I think many of us need supercomputer at home. Scientists, students, motion graphers, architects, 3D designers, animators and more. MacBooks and iMacs are great computers, but from my point of view just a toys. Mac Pro just can't be replaced with these toys, not today, not tomorrow. You can record great music album with 8-track recorder but you can't compare it to true pro recording studio.
Many people still waiting for new workstation from Apple and its great time to create something more than HP/Dell like computer with OSX installed.
Maybe its naive but I hope for something groundbreaking. Like NeXT 2013.

Thank you for Xeon Phi info.
Super computers are often very good at one or two tasks. I like my computer to perform well in a number of tasks. I'll skip the super computer at home.
All Taken is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:19 PM   #17
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Taken View Post
Super computers are often very good at one or two tasks. I like my computer to perform well in a number of tasks. I'll skip the super computer at home.
One or two tasks? Computer with fast OpenCL hardware is potentially very versatile tool for professionals - audio, video, 3D, science calculations... but useful even in daily home use. Many people don't need such powerful hardware of course.
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:34 AM   #18
Concorde Rules
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
One or two tasks? Computer with fast OpenCL hardware is potentially very versatile tool for professionals - audio, video, 3D, science calculations... but useful even in daily home use. Many people don't need such powerful hardware of course.
So for these people what's wrong with the cheaper AMD or nvidia alternatives?
Concorde Rules is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:07 AM   #19
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concorde Rules View Post
So for these people what's wrong with the cheaper AMD or nvidia alternatives?
Nothing's wrong - for less demanding people. But after few years more demanding people expect something special from Apple, I think. We are like a vampires after one hundred years spent six feed underground and waiting for fresh blood
We can ask Apple:
"Do you want to sell gadgets and electronic toys to the end of the world? Or do you want to change the world of design and science?"
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:56 AM   #20
All Taken
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
Nothing's wrong - for less demanding people. But after few years more demanding people expect something special from Apple, I think. We are like a vampires after one hundred years spent six feed underground and waiting for fresh blood
We can ask Apple:
"Do you want to sell gadgets and electronic toys to the end of the world? Or do you want to change the world of design and science?"
Let me assure you they don't give a monkeys toss so long as the money is coming in.
All Taken is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:49 AM   #21
Asgorath
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
Nothing's wrong - for less demanding people. But after few years more demanding people expect something special from Apple, I think. We are like a vampires after one hundred years spent six feed underground and waiting for fresh blood
We can ask Apple:
"Do you want to sell gadgets and electronic toys to the end of the world? Or do you want to change the world of design and science?"
And what makes you think that a chip designed for mobile applications has any chance of competing with the latest desktop card from AMD or NVIDIA? The GK110 cards from NVIDIA are already at 4 TFLOPS from what I've seen.
Asgorath is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:05 PM   #22
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgorath View Post
And what makes you think that a chip designed for mobile applications has any chance of competing with the latest desktop card from AMD or NVIDIA? The GK110 cards from NVIDIA are already at 4 TFLOPS from what I've seen.
http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/sgx_series6.asp

and look at my 1st post - I asked about possibility to connect several such chips in one cluster and maybe several clusters to PCIE lines (new motherboard design).
Still waiting for answer...
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:18 PM   #23
Asgorath
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
Still waiting for answer...
And why do you think people on an internet forum will have such an answer? If Imagination wants to get into the high-end desktop GPGPU market, more power to them. Of course, they'll have to compete with AMD and NVIDIA, the latter of which is pretty much dominant with their Tesla line of cards (such as the GK110 ones used to power the Titan supercomputer). Personally, I don't see it happening.
Asgorath is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:32 PM   #24
yfile
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgorath View Post
And why do you think people on an internet forum will have such an answer?
Because this forum becomes a place for mad scientists trying to keep alive a wonderful but very old machine...
yfile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:33 PM   #25
ActionableMango
macrumors 68040
 
ActionableMango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
Still waiting for answer...
If this was your question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by yfile View Post
I wonder whether it would be possible and reasonable to put a several such GPU processors on new MacPro 2013 motherboard for OpenCL calculations in addition to regular CPU.
...a lot of people has answered it. You just don't like the answers.
ActionableMango is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > Mac Pro

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Early 2008 MacPro GPU compatibility RedFlyer Mac Pro 4 Feb 10, 2014 05:03 PM
MacPro [12345],1 upgrades. Which GPU for under $200? Under $150? rpseguin Mac Pro 9 Jan 31, 2014 03:10 PM
Does FCPX support dual GPU rendering on MacPro 5.1? Donar Digital Video 10 Jan 2, 2014 02:19 PM
GTX580 Classified Still King in new Barefeats Multi-GPU tests MacVidCards Mac Pro 26 Aug 16, 2013 06:12 AM
2013 MacPro CPU and GPU alksion Mac Pro 80 Jan 4, 2013 07:24 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC