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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:21 AM   #26
Beachguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregwyattjr View Post
This is Apple ensuring the best possible experience for the customer.
I agree, Greg. This isn't the same as saying it will be a flawless product on the phone, but that it makes it easier to say "your carrier needs to fix this, because before we let them have this phone, they had to pass stringent tests. Our phone is matched to what they promised to provide. If you have the signal, you are supposed to have a pleasant experience." All handset makers should be this way.

Disclaimer: I do not have an iPhone, and have no plans; indeed, I updated my handset last July to an HTC Evo 4G LTE device, and my two iPads are WiFi only. I have no horse in this race, at this point.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:22 AM   #27
Cruncher
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I`m from switzerland and my carrier is Swissom. LTE launched in my region and I can`t use it with my iPhone 5! I have to wair
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:22 AM   #28
KPOM
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Originally Posted by Westside guy View Post
No, this is the Steve Jobs legacy of being the ultimate control freak.
It's better than the carriers being control freaks. Remember what it was like just 5 years ago? If it were still that way, people would be paying $10/month for Verizon Navigator on some crummy plasticky carrier-branded phone instead of complaining about Apple Maps.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:28 AM   #29
VenusianSky
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This is what probably happens:

Apple: Your LTE network is not good enough.

Carrier: OK, we stop selling your phones.

Apple: Your LTE network passes.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:31 AM   #30
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I know this is something a lot of people probably think is Apple being overly controlling; however, try this:
Go and buy and Android phone, run it for one month out of the box with all of the junk the carriers put on it.

Root the phone, remove all of the extra junk the carriers add to it and run it for 1 month.

I can guarantee that you will be much happier in the second month, as all of the stuff the carriers add is just junk that isn't necessary for the operation of the phone.

Now, personally I think the unlocked phone should work with ANY carrier, GSM or CDMA. I mean the phone is capable of both, why prevent it? Yes, for the CDMA phones you would need to go into the store in most cases, but that can be done.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:31 AM   #31
avanpelt
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If Sprint passed the test in the U.S., it can't be that difficult. I wonder if they lower the standard if there is carrier competition in a country/region?

The more I think about it, I wonder if Apple lets these stories circulate in an attempt to make consumers think they're looking out for their best interests.

I mean, come on, does anyone really believe that Apple would turn down any carrier who's willing to fork over a bunch of cash to get the iPhone 5 on its LTE network? I like Apple products, but I hardly think Apple is looking out for my best interests. I don't need Apple to do that. Apple is in business to make a profit and share that money with the shareholders. I have a brain and access to the internet and I can make my own carrier choices without Apple's help.

Last edited by avanpelt; Nov 30, 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:33 AM   #32
quaternio
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I guess this is another possible reason why my regional carrier, C Spire, has yet to offer LTE to their iPhone 5 customers, even though they already have LTE coverage in my town for other phones. C Spire has been very tight lipped as to why they don't offer it yet with iPhones.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:33 AM   #33
Mackan
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Sounds bad. How fun is it to sit and wait for Apple to release a software update for LTE for some specific carrier in whatever country, that may not happen?

What are they testing anyway? Can only speculate, as usual...
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:33 AM   #34
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I guess Apple stops carriers messing with their software cos carriers love to fill your phone with their crap. Last time I bought a phone from the carrier, the OS was almost unrecognisable after the carrier had messed with it.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:35 AM   #35
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Itīs exactly the same now in Belgium.

Proximus, the national provider, enabled 4G LTE on its network and we're still waiting for Apple to approve it before being able to connect to it using iPhone 5.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:36 AM   #36
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Yep. And this is exactly what is going on in Denmark at the moment. The 4G/LTE networks on, I think, every carrier in the country is up and running, but people can't use their iPhone 5s on it until Apple finishes their testing (which is said to coincide with the release of iOS 6.1 in January).

Oh well, I'll survive on 3G another 1 or 2 months.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:37 AM   #37
nickn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
I know this is something a lot of people probably think is Apple being overly controlling; however, try this:
Go and buy and Android phone, run it for one month out of the box with all of the junk the carriers put on it.
Ok, I purchased an HTC Evo 3D from Virgin Mobile. As you said, there is a ton of garbage software, including a stupid account app that tells me how many minutes I have used, which of course is totally useless, and a small music app. Two whole apps, both of which I can hide, I mean what? What a sham!!!!!
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:44 AM   #38
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Quote: Alcatel Lucent CTO Marcus Weldon saying that Apple was "a bit big for its boots" with the policy, hinting that it was unusual for a handset manufacturer to have such control over its handsets.


Well, I thank Steve Jobs, I surely do, for coming up with a device that allows us to bypass so many of the gratuitous and cash sucking practices of the phone companies. I believe his various ways to use the internet to develop parallel services was his way of reinventing phone service. In recent months, I've seen the phone companies try to claw their way back into a semblance of control.

Separate charge for tethering of our own data? Really?

It's precisely that Apple has ceded limited control to the phone companies that they work as well as they do. Phone companies are adept at billing, less so with stellar service and innovation. Ever try a Lucent phone?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:49 AM   #39
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There have been loads of topics about this on the Apple forums. People who are defending this move by Apple are true fanboys. They clearly can't see how the world works outside of America. When a company sells an unlocked 4G phone in a country that supports the 4G baseband (like here in Belgium) it must work on that network, that's why it's called an unlocked phone. This goes directly into the EU regulations concerning free market.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:50 AM   #40
Mackan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelW View Post
Quote: Alcatel Lucent CTO Marcus Weldon saying that Apple was "a bit big for its boots" with the policy, hinting that it was unusual for a handset manufacturer to have such control over its handsets.


Well, I thank Steve Jobs, I surely do, for coming up with a device that allows us to bypass so many of the gratuitous and cash sucking practices of the phone companies. I believe his various ways to use the internet to develop parallel services was his way of reinventing phone service. In recent months, I've seen the phone companies try to claw their way back into a semblance of control.

Separate charge for tethering of our own data? Really?

It's precisely that Apple has ceded limited control to the phone companies that they work as well as they do. Phone companies are adept at billing, less so with stellar service and innovation. Ever try a Lucent phone?
Well, Apple is not a saint either. It's a company, very heavily focused on making profit... You can be sure they have their own agenda, when it comes to control who can use their products. With Apple now controlling who can use LTE on their phones... well, you can be sure they use it for their advantage, and not yours.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:59 AM   #41
golgo1313
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apple will realize that the iphone isn't the iphone it used to be anymore, i.e. there are MANY viable alternatives out there. this kind of attitude as if iphone is the greatest gift to mankind will be it's downfall. it doesn't take a genius to understand that you must adapt to the environment...
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:05 AM   #42
winston1236
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Originally Posted by iphone495 View Post
Good quality control on Apple's part.
Oh yea, like choosing the worst carrier in the country for the original iphone?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:08 AM   #43
tbrinkma
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Telecoms.com quotes Alcatel Lucent CTO Marcus Weldon saying that Apple was "a bit big for its boots" with the policy, hinting that it was unusual for a handset manufacturer to have such control over its handsets.
Wait. Was it really standard practice before the iPhone for handset vendors *not* to test their phones on the networks? That doesn't sound right.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:12 AM   #44
Mic'sBook
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That's true to Hong Kong as well. Only approved networks can be used with iPhone 5's 4G function.

edited:

The following is an extract from a Hong Kong technology website, and I tried my best to translate it:

Quote:
單頻網絡有不足,蘋果測試好求期

雖然 iPhone 5 即日起可以打通 CSL 與 3 香港的 4G 網絡,但相對其他 Android 4G 手機用家,都是比較蝕底,因為這兩台本來是以雙頻段 2600MHz 與 1800MHz 建網,但 iPhone 5 只收到 1800MHz 的 4G,用少了一半資源 (其實不只一半),點睇都無咁著數。

此外,版主問過業界人士,蘋果的所謂「網絡測試」,只是針對商業區,電腦雜誌,網站做的 4G Test,可能更比蘋果的要求更嚴格,起碼是全港性。所以過得蘋果關,與質素保證無關,衰點講,只係設過關卡留難一下網絡商。
Having a single LTE band working is insufficient. The test conducted by Apple was very casual.

Although starting today, iPhone 5 can use the 4G networks of CSL and 3, when compared with other Android 4G users, iPhone 5 users are at a disadvantage. Those two 4G networks have been built on 2600 MHz and 1800 MHz bands, but the iPhone 5 is only able to use the 4G network of the 1800 MHz band, using half of the resources (actually more than half), thus not having an advantage.

In addition, we asked some people in the telecommunications field. They said the so-called 'network test' conducted by Apple only focused on central business districts, and those 4G network tests conducted by technology magazines and websites were probably even more rigorous than Apple's, at least they were done all over Hong Kong. Getting a pass in Apple's network test has nothing to do with network quality. Bluntly, the test was just an obstacle to forcing mobile network operators to listen to Apple.

(http://www.eprice.com.hk/mobile/talk/4544/48615/)

Last edited by Mic'sBook; Nov 30, 2012 at 01:03 PM.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:13 AM   #45
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Just wait until Apple standardizes on some embedded SIM that they really wanted to push for a while now, if so the iPhone 5 will be my last iPhone.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:19 AM   #46
chagla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
True to form: Android is all about freedom... For the carriers, not the user.
can you give some examples and specifics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmuel View Post
If anyone ....

If they didn't do this, people buying Apple product would notice that they don't work reliably and blame Apple. This hurts Apples reputation which it needs to sell its products. Other companies might think this isn't worth the effort or simply don't care enough. Maybe they have other business models (like making their products cheap, brag with specifications or producing ads that will make their customers hurt Apples reputation for them). For Apple, reputation is a very valuable card.
yup. reminds me of Windows Vista days. MS should have been more stricter with OEM vendors. Vista wasn't bad, it was just that most hardware at the time wasn't ready for vista. by Windows 7, pcs were upgraded, more beefed up so win7 runs fine.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:19 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
Wait. Was it really standard practice before the iPhone for handset vendors *not* to test their phones on the networks? That doesn't sound right.
The beef seems not to be about testing per se, but about Apple doing the "approving" instead of the carriers.

As for the myth about Apple never being under the control of carriers, that's demonstrably incorrect. Apple bent over backwards many times to do what AT&T wished as far as high bandwidth apps went, even if it made no sense elsewhere in the world.

Last edited by kdarling; Nov 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:19 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by gregwyattjr View Post
This is Apple ensuring the best possible experience for the customer.
No, this is Apple locking you in to their selected carriers.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:24 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by VenusianSky View Post
This is what probably happens:

Apple: Your LTE network is not good enough.

Carrier: OK, we stop selling your phones.

Apple: Your LTE network passes.
Are we talking about the same Apple here?

The Apple I know makes it a burden to carry the iPhone in so many ways, yet carriers are dying to get the device as official partner and work on new standards together with Apple.
(Visual Voicemail is just one example)

Apple's dom, carriers are subs.

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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:29 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors
Alcatel Lucent CTO Marcus Weldon saying that Apple was "a bit big for its boots" with the policy, hinting that it was unusual for a handset manufacturer to have such control over its handsets [...] Apple forbidding carriers from preinstalling any of its own software applications or services on the iPhone.

Article Link: Apple Must Approve Carrier LTE Networks Before Allowing iPhone 5 to Connect to Them
Possibly to the detriment of the customer experience... it'd be nice if some apps, such as myAT&T came preinstalled and set up on iPhone's bought on AT&T's network, for example.

My mom refuses to use the app because she's paranoid and convinced its a scam. I'm sure there are other users like her who can't access all the data that app provides because they don't trust the apps on the App Store.

Of course, Apple should personally approve of all preinstalled apps and hold them to the same standards they use for the other apps that come preinstalled already. Further, they should be uninstallable... Possibly with a button in Settings somewhere to reinstall the app.
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