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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:40 AM   #1
jimbo1mcm
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2012 Design not user friendly

I have no dog in this fight, because I just bought a mid-range macmini. But I was looking at the tear down of the new Imac and they use adhesive on the screen!!!! Apple just doesn't even care if you want to open it up. They have to digress in their design philosophy and strike a better balance between functionality and maintainability. If Sir Jonny can expand his horizons a little more, he would design something that a user can open and change some components.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:47 AM   #2
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It's not meant to be opened up by end users, I'd suggest that 99.9% of owners will happily just plonk it on their desks and never fiddle with it.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:03 AM   #3
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It's not meant to be opened up by end users, I'd suggest that 99.9% of owners will happily just plonk it on their desks and never fiddle with it.
I actually agree with the OP. I once had to replay the keyboard of my late 2008 unibody MacBook Pro. Apple would charge me 600 (!) for the repair...for a keyboard. I bought the entire top assembly (which still cost me 120) and repaired it myself.

Harddisk will break. It is not a question of if but when and I really would like for me to be able to replace it fairly easy and cheaply even after Apple Care is over.

That being said I'm still torn wether to get the new 27" or not. I'm actually in the boat of just putting my own SSD stick from OWC in there and not pay the ridiculous upgrade price for their 128GB SSD (250). I have to see how easy it actually is to remove the glue.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:48 AM   #4
Tom J
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... they use adhesive on the screen!!!! ...
Adhesives are the new screws. Not just for Apple but for many electronics manufacturers. I don't agree with it but we're going to see more and more of it.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:33 AM   #5
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I actually agree with the OP. I once had to replay the keyboard of my late 2008 unibody MacBook Pro. Apple would charge me 600 (!) for the repair...for a keyboard. I bought the entire top assembly (which still cost me 120) and repaired it myself.

Harddisk will break. It is not a question of if but when and I really would like for me to be able to replace it fairly easy and cheaply even after Apple Care is over.

That being said I'm still torn wether to get the new 27" or not. I'm actually in the boat of just putting my own SSD stick from OWC in there and not pay the ridiculous upgrade price for their 128GB SSD (250). I have to see how easy it actually is to remove the glue.
This is my viewpoint as well, these machines have to be end user serviceable. Professionals or advanced users will be using these day in day out and it only makes sense that they are able to change the occasional hard drive or clean out the dust from it. You don't see a car where the bonnet or hood is glued down it is totally backwards thinking to do so. There is no wonder there are so many idiots around now that can't even change a spair tyre on their car. People are becoming too specialised. Looking at it now all of the problems are starting to come out. The glued in design, problems with the screen what next.

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Adhesives are the new screws. Not just for Apple but for many electronics manufacturers. I don't agree with it but we're going to see more and more of it.
The reason they went for glue is because they are obsession with making it too thin... 5mm's thin. They could have easily made the magnets work if they would have made it 10mm's thicker. This is just going too far with this whole thin thing. I am really considering keeping my desktop tower now. At least you can open it. Hey you can even open up the Macbook pro retina. What the hell Apple this is a desktop.?
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:38 AM   #6
Imaginethe
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Here is the video of the tear down from OWCMAcsales

http://blog.macsales.com/15932-what-...1-5#more-15932

The hardest part would be to out the screen back on really. Using the right kind of glue etc. The rest is fiddly. I plan to never open one up!
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 09:13 AM   #7
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"Here is the video of the tear down from OWCMAcsales"

I watched about a minute of that video -- it was all I needed to see to know that this isn't the iMac I would want.

I can [almost] understand why Apple would not want customers opening the iMac up (more to do with planned obsolescence and "buy an new one" than anything else), but the new design looks to make it difficult for even authorized service techs to get into. Why the heck did they do that?

Why not just use a series of countersunk screws around the edges, like on my MacBook Pro? Does that really detract from the "design aesthetics" all that much?

I've had my PowerMac g4 MDD sitting here for 8 years now. Got a noisy fan but I'm used to it. It has (had?) a sleek design, but was also quite easy to get into and fix at those times I need to do that, or put in another drive.

But now that it's time to replace it, I -won't- be considering an iMac. I'll get a Mac Mini server instead (2 HDD's inside), just add a "do-it-myself" external SSD for a little extra booting speed. At least if something needs attention on the Mini, I'll be able to get into it easily, without resorting to heat guns and having to literally pry the damn thing apart!
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 09:53 AM   #8
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...

Why not just use a series of countersunk screws around the edges, like on my MacBook Pro? Does that really detract from the "design aesthetics" all that much?

...
I'm not a mechanical engineer. (Is there a real mechanical engineer in the house?) But here are my layman's guesses about why screws might be a worse way to hold this system together...
  • Strength. Adhesive tape is strong. Very small screws aren't particularly strong. Even if they are top quality, you may need a lot of them.
  • Assembly time. With proper tools and assembly fixtures, adhesive tape probably goes on in a few seconds. Screws might take longer, especially if they are very small and/or very numerous. This is important for high-volume manufacturing. Keep in mind that every system has to be built, but only a small fraction of them will ever be disassembled, even if they are easy to disassemble.
  • Materials cost. Adhesive tape is cheap, and can be obtained with the precise properties needed. Screws aren't so cheap if they are very small, have very fine threads, are made from good materials with tight tolerances.
  • Product size and appearance. You could make an iMac this thin and assemble it with screws, but you'd have to give up one or more of the desirable traits listed above. Or you could make it bulkier, uglier, and more costly using screws. It would require different skills and equipment to take it apart, for the relatively few people who care about such things.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 09:56 AM   #9
jedolley
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I'm actually more likely to take this iMac apart than the previous design. The adhesive can be a pain, but from the video, it was not that hard to get around. One HUGE bonus to the new design, especially the screen, is that there shouldn't be a chance on getting any dust or debris between the glass and the screen like you could from the previous design.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 10:01 AM   #10
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The sole reason for the glue is because the screen is now laminated to the glass. It used to be that the iMac screen was secured by 8 Torx screws and the glass front was magnetised to the assembly, now they have a laminated front assembly they have chosen glue. Could have used magnets but adhesive is always cheapest considering they're wanting to milk the 2012 users for every penny.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 10:37 AM   #11
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Adhesives are the new screws. Not just for Apple but for many electronics manufacturers. I don't agree with it but we're going to see more and more of it.
most car makers also, a heat gun is the new wrench. Times change
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 10:41 AM   #12
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Could have used magnets but adhesive is always cheapest considering they're wanting to milk the 2012 users for every penny.
Considering the BASE model comes with 8GB of ram, 1TB of storage, and NOT an intel HD XXXXX GPU, Id have to take issue with the underlined.

Not its not a bargain by any stretch, but considering the plethora of all in ones we sell at best buy this is hands down the best specced machine. If you do top out the best selling all in ones you'll spend a little under a grand, but most of those models are stuck with the intel GPU no matter what.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 10:54 AM   #13
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Considering the BASE model comes with 8GB of ram, 1TB of storage, and NOT an intel HD XXXXX GPU, Id have to take issue with the underlined.

Not its not a bargain by any stretch, but considering the plethora of all in ones we sell at best buy this is hands down the best specced machine. If you do top out the best selling all in ones you'll spend a little under a grand, but most of those models are stuck with the intel GPU no matter what.
I think you missed my point entirely. I am speaking in terms of expandability in comparison to previous iMac models, in that comparison they have Milked customers for every last penny.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 11:29 AM   #14
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Sales of Minis will probably soar. I don't need a new computer so won't be buying anything soon, but I think my current iMac will be my last.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 11:42 AM   #15
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Apple just doesn't even care if you want to open it up. They have to digress in their design philosophy and strike a better balance between functionality and maintainability. If Sir Jonny can expand his horizons a little more, he would design something that a user can open and change some components.
It's been a long time since an iMac was user serviceable other than RAM. It's unknown if the 21" will be easy to get into. From the tear down pics it doesn't look too different than previous models -- suction cup the display off. The RAM is right there so no further steps.

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Sales of Minis will probably soar. I don't need a new computer so won't be buying anything soon, but I think my current iMac will be my last.
Well, I was planning on buying a mini until I saw they removed the discrete video card option in the current gen. No thanks to that. So I bought a 21" iMac -- my first. So there is at least one iMac sold over a mini right there.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 12:31 AM   #16
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Well, I was planning on buying a mini until I saw they removed the discrete video card option in the current gen. No thanks to that. So I bought a 21" iMac -- my first. So there is at least one iMac sold over a mini right there.
Those who need better graphics won't be buying Minis. But the hoard of general users don't need higher-end graphics. Surfing the internet, emailing, downloading/playing music/movies, etc. don't need high-end graphics. The general users are the ones that would be better off with a Mini. I edit text so don't need good graphics. When I do get around to updating my computer, I think a Mini will better serve my needs (which include a FW backup that the new iMacs don't support without buying something else I don't want to have to pay extra for). I would be able to (relatively) easily add RAM (I currently have a 21.5" and don't think I'd ever get a 27") and an SSD. The poor accessibility of the new iMacs will, I think, turn some people off.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 09:13 AM   #17
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"Those who need better graphics won't be buying Minis...."

I'll take an off-the-wall guess, and reckon that's why Apple deliberately chose not to offer any kind of "video upgrade" on -any- of the new Minis.

To do so would have created a low-cost product that would be -too- powerful, and take away from sales of the "higher priced spread".

Although reports are that the Intel HD 4000 graphics aren't really too bad for most day-to-day tasks. Even with their purposely-limited graphics, the new Minis seem to be snappy performers.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 12:11 PM   #18
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Those who need better graphics won't be buying Minis. But the hoard of general users don't need higher-end graphics. ...The poor accessibility of the new iMacs will, I think, turn some people off.
Right, but the horde of general users want a sleek AIO, not cables going all over the place. They could not care less they can't open the case. They wouldn't even think of doing so if they could. The mini is for tinkerers, HTPC hobbyists, and curiosity seekers, not the general consumer. Only a tiny % will be upset by the lack of accessibility.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 12:34 PM   #19
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I'm not a tinkerer, nor would I know where to start (So perhaps you could call me the general user, even if I do need the machine to earn my living). But, the principle still irks me. The suggestion of 'planned obsolescence' is not only an insult to the consumer but also throws up environmental concerns. I don't know too much about this, and don't claim to have any real idea of Apple's intentions, but I can most certainly sympathize with those who are angry.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:01 PM   #20
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Right, but the horde of general users want a sleek AIO, not cables going all over the place. They could not care less they can't open the case. They wouldn't even think of doing so if they could. The mini is for tinkerers, HTPC hobbyists, and curiosity seekers, not the general consumer. Only a tiny % will be upset by the lack of accessibility.
I agree. These are appliances now. Those of us who even care to open a computer are becoming the lunatic fringe.

/Jim
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:08 PM   #21
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my coworker is a genius bar associate and he said he'll happily put my ssd in for me on my 27 inch yall suckers have to go to home depot and buy glue and all types of things
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:14 PM   #22
burninggarlic
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Most Mac users: buy the one they can afford, then use 3 4 years, buy a new one.

Some "Pro" PC users: buy one desktop, after weeks, change hard disk. After weeks, change CPU. After weeks, change GPU. After weeks, add ram. After weeks, add liquid cooling. After weeks, new hard disk! After weeks, new ram!
After weeks, new CPU! After weeks, new GPU! .....Finally, after 3 4 years, buy a new one.

The second option is really user friendly. Go for it!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:15 PM   #23
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my goodness, a company interested in making money makes it easier for themselves to make more money. What is this world coming to?
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:33 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jimbo1mcm View Post
I have no dog in this fight, because I just bought a mid-range macmini. But I was looking at the tear down of the new Imac and they use adhesive on the screen!!!! Apple just doesn't even care if you want to open it up. They have to digress in their design philosophy and strike a better balance between functionality and maintainability. If Sir Jonny can expand his horizons a little more, he would design something that a user can open and change some components.
They never cared if you wanted to open it up, so I don't see why all the drama

And what 'opening the computer' has to do with user friendliness? The iMac is mostly not user-serviceable, and never was. If you don't agree with such design, than vote with your money and don't buy.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:52 PM   #25
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Those who need better graphics won't be buying Minis. But the hoard of general users don't need higher-end graphics. Surfing the internet, emailing, downloading/playing music/movies, etc. don't need high-end graphics. The general users are the ones that would be better off with a Mini. I edit text so don't need good graphics. When I do get around to updating my computer, I think a Mini will better serve my needs (which include a FW backup that the new iMacs don't support without buying something else I don't want to have to pay extra for). I would be able to (relatively) easily add RAM (I currently have a 21.5" and don't think I'd ever get a 27") and an SSD. The poor accessibility of the new iMacs will, I think, turn some people off.
iMacs are targeted are people that couldn't care a whiff about "servicing them" themselves. I'm happy i can at least easily access to the RAM, but the rest forget it, it's a PC world which i personally decided to abandon years ago (changing GPU every year, than processor, then HDD, etc.).
If you want or need to mess with the internals it means you need uber-power, and that's what MacPros are meant for: loads of bays, etc. I'm happy they are working on them as it signals that Apple is not moving only towards the mainstream user. There probably won't be much innovation there as it's an irrelevant part of their business, but i'm glad they're working on them: it's good to be sure we will be keeping on seeing Macs only in music/video producers and the likes.

To me, complaining about being unable to mess with the internals of the imac is like complaining that it's not easy to change the engine in a car. It's just not the objective, it's not a Formula 1, it's meant to be a very good computer for millions of not-so-tech-savvy users, and it hit all the ticks i believe.
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