Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > iMac

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:53 AM   #1
axeman82
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Warranty/Apple Care

Hi, I'm another long time lurker first time poster. I've got 2 main questions really. First of all is the issue I have with Apple Care under the UK sales of goods act, and also the EU consumer goods law. Both clearly state that a product bought under these rules must be fit for purpose and work for an amount of time that is deemed fit for the product in question.

Now I don't know about you guys, but I would say paying well over 2 grand for a desktop computer should at the absolute minimum be expected to last for around 5 years. Since I live in the UK, why should I have to purchase Apple Care for 140 to give me 3 measly years of cover, when my statutory rights entitle me to 6 years? And across the EU a mandatory 2 years?

My next question is regarding the self upgrading of RAM. Will Apple refuse to cover the warranty if you add your own memory within the first year? Some companies jump on any chance they can to pass the blame onto the consumer, and I can see that being a possibility in this instance, but I'm sure you guys will have a definite answer to this one.
axeman82 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:03 AM   #2
Roller
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
I'm in the U.S., so I have no experience with UK or EU laws as they relate to warranties. However, it seems to me that the length of time for which any product should be fit for its intended use is quite subjective. I typically don't purchase AppleCare for my Macs, in part because my credit card doubles the standard one-year warranty. If there are many problems with the 2012 iMacs, however, I may decide to get it before the first year is up.

As for adding memory, if the iMac you buy is deemed upgradable by Apple (as the 27" is), there should be no issue getting warranty service. You can always remove any third-party memory before you bring it to Apple if you're unsure, though.
Roller is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:09 AM   #3
sketchygargoyle
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
I don't have an answer for your questions, but I am curious about Applecare as well. Im in US, but is applecare a basic necessity when buying an imac? I just want to get a feel for how many people buy applecare.
sketchygargoyle is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:11 AM   #4
Razorhog
macrumors 6502a
 
Razorhog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arkansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by sketchygargoyle View Post
I don't have an answer for your questions, but I am curious about Applecare as well. Im in US, but is applecare a basic necessity when buying an imac? I just want to get a feel for how many people buy applecare.
Due to the difficulties in repairing apple products, AppleCare is a good investment IMHO.
Razorhog is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:17 AM   #5
sketchygargoyle
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorhog View Post
Due to the difficulties in repairing apple products, AppleCare is a good investment IMHO.
but for the price and quality, I would expect it to last for 3 years anyway
sketchygargoyle is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:20 AM   #6
Razorhog
macrumors 6502a
 
Razorhog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arkansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by sketchygargoyle View Post
but for the price and quality, I would expect it to last for 3 years anyway
Yes, I do too. But life doesn't always work that way unfortunately.
Razorhog is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:30 AM   #7
axeman82
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
but for the price and quality, I would expect it to last for 3 years anyway
This is the point I'm making. Apple products are grossly over priced on the premise of being a meticulous product. Giving a 1 year warranty shows no faith at all in the build quality of their machines. They should at the very least give 3 years as standard or lower the price.

Most people don't take on big corporations, even though in a lot of cases their country's law gives them every right to a product being fixed or repaired by the retailer in cases of premature failure. There would be no doubt that a 2179 computer should be expected to last for more than a year under UK consumer laws, so to me Apple are kind of miss-selling insurance that is already statutory.

Wasn't there a case recently where the Italian government sued Apple for this very issue?
axeman82 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:31 AM   #8
aristobrat
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman82 View Post
Now I don't know about you guys, but I would say paying well over 2 grand for a desktop computer should at the absolute minimum be expected to last for around 5 years. Since I live in the UK, why should I have to purchase Apple Care for 140 to give me 3 measly years of cover, when my statutory rights entitle me to 6 years? And across the EU a mandatory 2 years?
I've seen statements like this posted occasionally (over the years) on the forum here. And I've seen a few more statements from UK/EU residents complaining that Apple (and shops) wouldn't honor a repair under the Bill of Goods act. So there appears to be a disconnect somewhere along the line.

Quote:
My next question is regarding the self upgrading of RAM. Will Apple refuse to cover the warranty if you add your own memory within the first year?
The won't warranty the third-party RAM you install, any damage you may have done installing it, or any damage caused by it. (i.e. if the RAM shorts out and kills your logic board also). I've seen where folks will reinstall the Apple RAM before bringing the Mac in for service, to make this a non-issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sketchygargoyle View Post
I don't have an answer for your questions, but I am curious about Applecare as well. Im in US, but is applecare a basic necessity when buying an imac? I just want to get a feel for how many people buy applecare.
There are literally hundreds of threads about people buying AppleCare, or "Is AppleCare worth it". Might be worth going through some of those, because a lot of people have an opinion on this issue, but won't type it out each time the question gets re-asked:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:...imac applecare
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:...ecare worth it

Personally, I think that any time you buy a first generation of a major Apple re-design (like the current iMacs), it's wise to get AppleCare. Apple's had too many notorious examples of first gens after major redesigns having issues crop up down the road.

Also, with iMacs, the complexity of fixing even simple issues (like a hard drive dying) is greater because of the design. You have to remove the screen before you can service anything. Apple doesn't design/manufacture many of the parts inside, like the hard drive, so you have just as much of a chance of it failing as you would with the same hard drive in a Dell/HP system.
aristobrat is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:55 AM   #9
vannibombonato
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman82 View Post
This is the point I'm making. Apple products are grossly over priced on the premise of being a meticulous product. Giving a 1 year warranty shows no faith at all in the build quality of their machines. They should at the very least give 3 years as standard or lower the price.

...

Wasn't there a case recently where the Italian government sued Apple for this very issue?
Yes, it was the Italian government, but it's something that applies to all UE countries: 2 years guarantee is a law requirement.

What has happened is that Apple has been forced to specify that, despite its advertising of its products having a 1 year guarantee, no-matter-what the product had actually had a 2 year guarantee, whether Apple liked it or not. The seller is required to oblige that.
In practical terms nothing has changed, just the way its advertised.

Being an Apple fan, i do agree that 1 year of guarantee is ridicolous, especially if you do so specifically to encourage people in buying in a very expensive insurance plan.
vannibombonato is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 06:03 AM   #10
axeman82
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
I still think it should be illegal to sell AppleCare in countries where your statutory rights already cover you. If there is so little power in the sale of goods act (UK) or the 2 year EU law then what good are they? It is common practise amongst big corporations around the world to up sell extra warranties, and it is a well known fact they make millions out of it. It is basically retail robbery.

It is especially true of a product costing well over 2 grand. One year warranty just doesn't cut it at all. If the product is so great it should come as standard with 3 years. Sorry, rant over
axeman82 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 06:40 AM   #11
vannibombonato
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman82 View Post
I still think it should be illegal to sell AppleCare in countries where your statutory rights already cover you. If there is so little power in the sale of goods act (UK) or the 2 year EU law then what good are they? It is common practise amongst big corporations around the world to up sell extra warranties, and it is a well known fact they make millions out of it. It is basically retail robbery.

It is especially true of a product costing well over 2 grand. One year warranty just doesn't cut it at all. If the product is so great it should come as standard with 3 years. Sorry, rant over
It's not quite like that:

1- Apple Care covers for 3 years, law obliges for 2. So it's not the same, by buying Apple Care you are extending the guarantee to 1 more year.
2- Most importantly, AppleCare grants you direct Apple assistance: what does this mean? It means that if you buy from shop X an Apple computer (or any other item obviously), you have 2 years of guarantee. But you will have to give your computer to the shop you have purchased it, which then will send it to repair, etc. etc. In other words, the law puts the burden of the guarantee on the seller, not the manufacturer. This could slow things up when repairing something. If you're buying directly from Apple obviously this does not apply.

Personally, i don't get why Apple puts a 1 year guarantee on their products, which is clearly something sub-par of its competitors despite their strategy clearly being about building superior products delivered with superior customer service and premium pricing. I don't really get how this strategy copes with offering a 1 year guarantee and then maybe having to rip-off a customer after 1 year and a half in case its premium priced, supposedly premium quality product fails. It's something that really can alienate a customer forever, and can't match it with the type of -great- customer service they generally offer.
vannibombonato is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 08:24 AM   #12
aristobrat
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
AppleCare also gives the owner 3 years of telephone software support (for any Apple software). I've seen that be of value to some people.
aristobrat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 08:25 AM   #13
axeman82
Thread Starter
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
I understand what you're saying in regard to the EU rules, but my main point is specifically for the UK. The sales of goods act is for up to 6 years, allowing a reasonable expected lifespan. For example you shouldn't expect a 10 toaster to last for 6 years so neither will the law, but a 2,200 computer would certainly be expected to last at least 3 years defect free; so in my eyes I should be covered under the law of the land.

Otherwise our laws are just empty words that are unenforcable against giant corporations.
axeman82 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 10:24 AM   #14
mihai.ile
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
From what I researched, this 2 year EU or 6 year UK is useless since it says that you have to prove that the problem existed at the time of delivery.

How on earth are you going to prove that your iMac which after 1.5 years of use now has a big yellow circle on the LCD was a problem at the time of delivery and thus is covered by EU2 years or UK 6 years??

I read a case where in Germany where the EU 2 years was approved in 2002 a person got a MacBook and before 2 years (after 1 year) the HDD stopped working. Apple would only repair the MacBook at the cost of 49. Now this person either pais the money, buys an HDD and install it himself or prove that the HDD "was faulty or not as advertised when you received it" one and half year ago.

I think this just suks because any computer company usually gives 2-3 years on their products, except apple where you have to buy the apple care because they know it is basically impossible to make them repair your stuff after 1 year. (and good luck with paying someone less than the defective piece to enforce your rights)

Given this I do not know but I think I will really need to pay for apple care (which is 179 in Germany, ouch)
mihai.ile is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:23 PM   #15
aristobrat
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai.ile View Post
I think this just suks because any computer company usually gives 2-3 years on their products, except apple
FWIW (as a data point), I just looked at Dell's most expensive "All-in-One" computer (US$2599), and they sell it with a one-year warranty, and the option to pay extra for a two (or three) year warranty.

Looks like HP does a 2-3 year warranty, depending on the price point.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2012-12-07 at 1.12.29 PM.png
Views:	9
Size:	63.7 KB
ID:	382157   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2012-12-07 at 1.13.18 PM.png
Views:	8
Size:	122.6 KB
ID:	382158  
aristobrat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:39 PM   #16
comatose81
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by axeman82 View Post
This is the point I'm making. Apple products are grossly over priced on the premise of being a meticulous product. Giving a 1 year warranty shows no faith at all in the build quality of their machines. They should at the very least give 3 years as standard or lower the price.

Most people don't take on big corporations, even though in a lot of cases their country's law gives them every right to a product being fixed or repaired by the retailer in cases of premature failure. There would be no doubt that a 2179 computer should be expected to last for more than a year under UK consumer laws, so to me Apple are kind of miss-selling insurance that is already statutory.

Wasn't there a case recently where the Italian government sued Apple for this very issue?
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. You know the warranty going into the purchase, so don't purchase it if you don't like it. They aren't holding a gun to your head.

There are so many things that could go wrong in a year (misuse, poor maintenance, etc) that I don't blame Apple for only covering it for that time period.
comatose81 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:41 PM   #17
Grockel
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Devon, UK
I am not a fan of extended warranty's, however I've just bought one for my daughter's new iMAC using her National Union of Student's card...for 45. A bargain. If you have children the educational discounts are a generic 33% (or 66% Higher Education) for Applecare.

My understanding is that there is a huge difference between
(i) The UK statutory requirements, and
(ii) Applecare.

Because of the UK law the benefits of Applecare are perhaps lessened...but they are still more than the law requires. Technical support is just one feature.

Apple have had to explain this on their website
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Which is supported by the UK governments consumer pages
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan..._is_faulty.htm
Grockel is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:55 PM   #18
Grockel
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Devon, UK
The European Commission also has a consumer centre that contains relevant info for the Uk and other EU countries
http://www.ukecc.net/sub.asp?id=250

"The seller is liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists when the goods are delivered to the consumer and which becomes apparent within a period of two years (within the UK the Limitations Act 1980 allows a consumer to claim for up to 6 years after the date of purchase) unless, the consumer was made aware of or could not reasonably be unaware of the lack of conformity prior to the point of contracting."

The Uk Citizens advice bureau adds
"You've had the goods more than six months
You can still ask for a replacement or a repair as long as it's reasonable for the goods to have lasted this long. But you will have to be able to show there was something wrong with the goods at the time of sale.

You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods."
Grockel is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 7, 2012, 01:12 PM   #19
Epikuros
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mihai.ile View Post
From what I researched, this 2 year EU or 6 year UK is useless since it says that you have to prove that the problem existed at the time of delivery.

How on earth are you going to prove that your iMac which after 1.5 years of use now has a big yellow circle on the LCD was a problem at the time of delivery and thus is covered by EU2 years or UK 6 years??

I read a case where in Germany where the EU 2 years was approved in 2002 a person got a MacBook and before 2 years (after 1 year) the HDD stopped working. Apple would only repair the MacBook at the cost of 49. Now this person either pais the money, buys an HDD and install it himself or prove that the HDD "was faulty or not as advertised when you received it" one and half year ago.

I think this just suks because any computer company usually gives 2-3 years on their products, except apple where you have to buy the apple care because they know it is basically impossible to make them repair your stuff after 1 year. (and good luck with paying someone less than the defective piece to enforce your rights)

Given this I do not know but I think I will really need to pay for apple care (which is 179 in Germany, ouch)
It is actually quite a good law as I have understood it.

If your machine has a fault within the three year period the law gives you the right to have it repaired or replaced with no cost to you (i.e. for shipping) on a rather short notice.

What you have to prove is that the fault is not a result of misuse. You aren't asked to prove that before an objection can actually be raised by the seller.

First the product is shipped/collected by the seller to be repaired/replaced and then, if they find it obviously damaged in some physical way, they can refuse to pay for the repair/replacement (unless you can prove that it occurred during shipping).

If you want to use this law it is better to keep the machine in good condition to be on the safe side. If there are dents or deformities or any other signs of misuse then you might be out of luck unless you provide some documentation that this was original.

I am speaking from what I know about the law in Sweden at least. Not sure if it is the same EU law or a national one.
Epikuros is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > iMac

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
under warranty no apple care question T4R06 iPod touch 2 Jan 26, 2014 09:07 AM
Bestbuy warranty vs Apple care one? SuperMiguel MacBook Air 3 Jan 11, 2014 06:44 PM
Owning iMac outside of apple care warranty mellofello iMac 26 Nov 3, 2012 10:45 PM
With the option for an out of warranty replacement...is apple care even worth it? aliensarecool iPhone 4 Nov 3, 2012 02:34 AM
HDD optibay and Apple care warranty chibiterasu MacBook Pro 5 Jul 6, 2012 03:18 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC