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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:38 AM   #251
krravi
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Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
Replacing the HD looks pretty easy to me, but for those more timid, I'm sure Apple will offer reasonable labor prices.
Please don't say replacing HD is easy. Apple screwed that one as well big time with their custom firmware for temp control.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:40 AM   #252
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[QUOTE=Ubik1981;16409300]
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Originally Posted by Eriamjh1138@DAN View Post
I don't now about the rest of you, but I prefer to sell my old machine and upgrade very 2-3 years. I don't throw it away like someone ridiculously mentioned.

It was me. I own a mid-2009 MBA that still works (yes, with ML) but is slowly falling into pieces, like starting to freeze, overheat, etc. Not to mention the scratches, the ‘replace soon’ battery cycles, etc.

How much do you think it's worth on ebay? I doubt more than 100-200$. Really.

It's not even 10% of the price of the rMBP I’d like to purchase. That I call ‘throwing away’.
I sold my 2009 MBP for $950 this summer. I have always had great re-sell on Macs.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:40 AM   #253
krravi
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And I also wonder why the Apple retail stores stocked with geniuses won't do the repairs. Shipping a Mac all the way somewhere for repairs is time consuming and inefficient.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:43 AM   #254
WilliamG
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Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
There may be some overhead as well, particularly in the drive adapter. I have seen benchmarks come in slightly slower than SATA III. Its not TBolt per-se but the adapter going from SATA III to TBolt. This will probably disappear in the next generation of drive adapters.
Anandtech found with the Buffalo Ministation Thunderbolt + SSD that there was no difference vs connected via SATA III

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6127/b...-thunderbolt/3

"Looking at the QuickBench scores, the Vertex 3 performs just as well inside the MiniStation as it does connected to a 6Gbps SATA controller in our Bench test bed."

Sounds good enough to me to run my Thunderbolt disk off an external enclosure. In fact, I may just RAID 0 a couple of SSDs connected via Thunderbolt. Take that, Apple!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:50 AM   #255
mac jones
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Anandtech found with the Buffalo Ministation Thunderbolt + SSD that there was no difference vs connected via SATA III

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6127/b...-thunderbolt/3

"Looking at the QuickBench scores, the Vertex 3 performs just as well inside the MiniStation as it does connected to a 6Gbps SATA controller in our Bench test bed."

Sounds good enough to me to run my Thunderbolt disk off an external enclosure. In fact, I may just RAID 0 a couple of SSDs connected via Thunderbolt. Take that, Apple!
Yes i've found this to be true. No difference at all. It just feels a little strange having the boot disk outside the computer. I've done this with eSATA before, but the TB solution is much better than that.

But to be honest, I think this sealed up thing has gone to far. At this point I d rather have a TB display and a Mac Mini.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:51 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Please don't say replacing HD is easy. Apple screwed that one as well big time with their custom firmware for temp control.
Custom firmware for temp control? Screwed that one? What are you going on about? With the right equipment the task is easy. All you need is a heat gun, a guitar pick, some suction cups, some foam adhesive, and a screw driver. Perhaps a little patience would be good. All of that will be sold to you buy ifixit for a modest cost, except for the patience.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 02:58 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by holden15 View Post
Was that really necessary!? I was simply pointing out that this is the first Apple product that I've even seen that was assembled in the USA.

And besides, it is known, at least here in the US, that products made here a usually higher quality than those made overseas.
Haha, that´s a good one!

But you are right: you US-americans are the only ones seeing it that way!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:24 AM   #258
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So it seems the 21.5 Ram is user replaceable. So I don't know why Apple made it so hard to do so that they pretty much had to tell people no point in doing so.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:28 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by mac jones View Post
Yes i've found this to be true. No difference at all. It just feels a little strange having the boot disk outside the computer. I've done this with eSATA before, but the TB solution is much better than that.

But to be honest, I think this sealed up thing has gone to far. At this point I d rather have a TB display and a Mac Mini.
For a portable I wouldn't want an external disk with my boot partition. For my iMac, it bothers me not one bit. I have three TwelveSouth BackPacks on the back of my iMac, anyway.

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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:35 AM   #260
Lancer
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Originally Posted by the8thark View Post
So it seems the 21.5 Ram is user replaceable. So I don't know why Apple made it so hard to do so that they pretty much had to tell people no point in doing so.
That's not the point, the RAM is in slots so Apple can more easily change the setup depending on what the customer orders, plus it's cheaper than the soldered RAM and more practical if things go wrong. It's the same reason they don't solder in the CPU or HDD.

The only reason they do that in the MBPr and MBA is the lack of space in those designs. The new iMac is relatively roomy inside.

Can't wait for the 27" teardown in a few weeks!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 03:38 AM   #261
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but I think learning how to tinker with the internals is a valuable learning experience,
What is there to to tinker with?
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 04:14 AM   #262
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Here's the deal, iFixit MAKES MONEY from repairing machines and trying to convince users they too can repair crap if they purchase their tools. So their "3 out of 10" is basically just their profit margins going down. Of course they are going to be "disappointed..."

I'm not sure if they missed it, but this is an ALL IN ONE machine, which by their very nature aren't generally easy to bust open and start swapping things out.

Besides, by the time you are in dire need of upgrading the CPU, Intel switches sockets on ya.

In short, it's cool to see how they are put together, but iFixit's "ratings" are dumb when done on devices like this, Apple or not.
The repairability of the machine has almost no correlation to their profit levels. I think you need to review your logic that went behind making your claim.

They also rate repairability according to the use of proprietary screws (non standard screw head types) and they rank machines using these uncommon screws with a lower score. Does it not follow that they would be able to push more of their special screwdrivers or "specialized glass opening picks" with this?

The rarity of the special tools over their standard counterparts would mean that ifixit would have more market power as a retailer and possibly charge a higher margin on these products.

Moreover ifixit's articles are catered for readers who intend to tinker with their electronics beyond the point of standard user serviceability. The repairability score would be a good summary to ascertain how easy it is to tinker with an end consumer product.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 04:15 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
Replacing the HD looks pretty easy to me, but for those more timid, I'm sure Apple will offer reasonable labor prices.
It's currently about 200 euros, for parts and labour, on a 1TB hard drive in my 2009 model.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 04:21 AM   #264
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First thing I think when I see a design like this is: dust, how the hell can I clean the dust that keeps trapped inside? Forget about hard drives and parts that may or may not fail in the X number of years you plan to use the machine for. If you live in a big city like many do those innards will soon be caked in dust, far sooner your AppleCare runs out.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 04:53 AM   #265
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First thing I think when I see a design like this is: dust, how the hell can I clean the dust that keeps trapped inside? Forget about hard drives and parts that may or may not fail in the X number of years you plan to use the machine for. If you live in a big city like many do those innards will soon be caked in dust, far sooner your AppleCare runs out.
Cut a thin strip from a pair of tights, cut a plastic strip as a holder for the soft material, glue the strip of tights to the plastic then place on the vents with some tape so it's not easily seen. That then will grab the worst.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 05:38 AM   #266
JohnDoe98
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Originally Posted by gentleman00 View Post
What is there to to tinker with?
Apparently context, amongst other things.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 05:42 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
That's not the point, the RAM is in slots so Apple can more easily change the setup depending on what the customer orders, plus it's cheaper than the soldered RAM and more practical if things go wrong. It's the same reason they don't solder in the CPU or HDD.

The only reason they do that in the MBPr and MBA is the lack of space in those designs. The new iMac is relatively roomy inside.

Can't wait for the 27" teardown in a few weeks!
I see your point 100%. But what stopped Apple putting these Ram slots in user accessible spots on the 21.5?
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 05:47 AM   #268
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I see your point 100%. But what stopped Apple putting these Ram slots in user accessible spots on the 21.5?
Space.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 05:50 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by brock2621 View Post

Besides, by the time you are in dire need of upgrading the CPU, Intel switches sockets on ya.

In short, it's cool to see how they are put together, but iFixit's "ratings" are dumb when done on devices like this, Apple or not.
I'd suggest hard drive replacement as a useful feature. Apple might charge you several hundred for a dead drive, and anyone who has never experienced such a thing is just lucky. They're commodity parts that oems simply source. The usefulness has nothing to do with cpu swaps.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:04 AM   #270
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Disappointing; I don't see why magnets couldn't still have been used by moving them closer to the centre of the screen, and the lack of RAM access on the smaller models seems weird when the larger ones have it, and all models use the same RAM fitting (so they're all easily replaceable once you can get at them).

I can understand why such sacrifices need to be made in a Mac Mini or a laptop, but does anyone really care how thin the edges of their iMac is? It still sticks out a fair distance in the middle, plus the stand and the width of the screen are the things that really dictate how much space it occupies. By all means make it thinner if you can now that the SuperDrive is gone, but it shouldn't be at the cost of repairability; after all, the more easily a machine can be accessed by a user, the easier it is for an Apple technician.

Swapping RAM though really is a huge oversight as it's the number one way to extend the life of your Mac, and also should be an easy one for for Applecare to replace (just send the user a replacement RAM modules to swap in). Apple really needs to consider whether they're building a desktop all-in-one, or a laptop without portability; even so some of their laptops are easier to repair!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:49 AM   #271
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That's complete crap
Never before has the iMac been totally non user serviceable, no ram upgrade at the very least, not to mention when the hdd fails
All in one =/= non user serviceable
Apple just took the cheap way out and used adhesive tape to stick it together rather than designing an alternative system
I was thinking the same thing. What happens when the HD fails and you need to replace it with the backup?? When time is of the essence taking it to the Apple store is not an option.

Clearly the people downplaying this serious design flaw don't use their macs for anything serious...

PS. You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to replace an hd and perhaps some people need to realize that!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:05 AM   #272
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are an Apple user for over 10 years, my first Mac was a Power Macintosh 6100/66, I worked on the Macintosh Lc, Lc II, PoweMac 7100, 7200, 7600, 8100, 8500, 9600, G3, G4, G5, up to iMac, thanks to my company upgraded the computer often. Now I have a MacBook Pro 2006 and I adjusted by only changing the logic board, I added more RAM and changed my HD twice, I changed the top case and bottom case, twice the battery, should I change it again. Every time I open it to blow away the dust, I take care with love. I ask only one thing to Apple, if you do not want to disassemble the computer, at least give me the option to change the RAM and put the HD I want, all I ask, I think I spent more 2500 € I should give the right to do what I want on my computer, right Apple?

I love
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:09 AM   #273
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Oh dear...

I'm tempted to say it's incredibly badly designed, but it depends which way you look at it...
'Obviously' it's 'just' a 'laptop bunged into the back of a monitor', but I do suspect that it's been made like this for aesthetics and ease/cost of manufacture rather than deliberately trying to cash in on the lack of user serviceability.
Pretty irrelevant though - The sacrifices that stop easy ram/hd swaps are a pretty big deal to many people (including me). I guess the vast majority of imac purchasers wouldn't know any better and don't care, but it's (again) a really bad direction for them to move for computer enthusiasts.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:18 AM   #274
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Tear down is worthless isnt everything in spec's what where thinking its a box of fruite pebbles with a surprise inside
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:21 AM   #275
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Tear down is worthless isnt everything in spec's what where thinking its a box of fruite pebbles with a surprise inside
What? What?
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