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Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:52 PM   #501
Twixt
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I doubt i will buy an iMac again. Display screen has been replaced once because of these dark shadows and i was lucky to have bought some extended guaranty. This computer is so thin and packed inside that a 5Y full guaranty should be available which is far from the case...
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 06:55 PM   #502
RobertMartens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
Not AIOs, I bet. To compare apples to apples, you should make the comparison between your PCs to the Mac Pro line
I know this one too.

What Pro line?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixt View Post
I doubt i will buy an iMac again. Display screen has been replaced once because of these dark shadows and i was lucky to have bought some extended guaranty. This computer is so thin and packed inside that a 5 Year full guaranty should be available which is far from the case...
3 is not that far from 5
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:02 PM   #503
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I simply cannot believe Apple have done this... (screw the repair side of things, which is bad enough - I'm talking about not even being able to upgrade the RAM and HDD of their machine/s)

I've never been a fan of the concept of having a PC with completely user interchangeable parts. Most complaints I've heard from PC using friends were after attempting to upgrade a sound card, or a graphics card, or whatever, and suddenly their machine is being oddly, or not at all, etc etc etc. Much prefer the Apple approach - which is that other than their towers, you get what they put it in, and that's final - except for the RAM and HDD.

Now...

Even my LCIII had expansion slots... now the iMac can't have its RAM or HDD user upgraded?

Bad move, Apple.

I understand selling to the lowest common denominator (ie iPod/iPad) but this is ridiculous...
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:05 PM   #504
Plutonius
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I can't believe all the complaining in this thread. If you don't like what Apple has been doing lately, switch to something else. It's your money so buy what you want instead of complaining that you are being forced to buy something you don't want.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:17 PM   #505
ctdonath
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Enough of the "too much emphasis on thin" whining.
Let's reverse it for a minute.

What do most users need?
How much are they willing to spend?
What flexibility is required?
What is the optimal implementation of those needs?
How much space is required for the solution?
How to package that solution?

Of the millions of iMacs sold, very few need/want anything other than an i5 or i7, 8-32GB, fast 1TB, a few fast interfaces, a strong (but not screaming) GPU, and a nice screen. Other interfaces are obsolete, or rare enough to warrant a cheap dongle. Optical drives, between disuse and the Bluray "bag of hurt" issue, are moot for most.
They'll spend $1300-3000ish.
Later memory upgrades are the most common, and rare at that. Storage upgrades are mostly external at this point, esp. with USB3 & Thunderbolt. A processor upgrade really needs a new motherboard etc to be sensible.
All that can be packaged into a pretty small space, with a couple inches depth.
Eliminating screen glare, and new display tech, gives a crazy thin screen.
So you end up with an AIO box with the guts crammed into the space of a couple packs of cards stacked, and a 27" screen millimeters thick.
Addressing optimal creative cooling solutions, taper the back in an elegant form from maximum thickness to those 5mm edges, work in audio & airflow.
Forego most upgrade ability due to cost, volume, and complexity introduced (non trivial).
And the 2012 iMac is the result.

It's not "why did they focus on making it so thin?"
It's "what else could they do? Why do it?"
Thin and "pregnant" was the sensible solution to the problem.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:32 PM   #506
2IS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
Ain't gonna happen, the only current Apple's with DVD are MBP (non retina) and the Mac Pro, Apple is not going to take a backward step to put in DVD or BluRay and I say its a good thing. The one problem I've had with my 2005 G5 tower is the DVD, replacing it twice. Relatively easy to do in the G5 Tower, a nightmare in the iMac. Now if your DVD fails just unplug and get another... period the best move Apple made with the new iMac.
The backwards step was made when they removed it. You still have the option of not replacing your optical drive and getting an external if it bothered you that greatly. And what's the point of a thin imac that has the same footprint as the larger one, only to have to buy an external optical drive, making it effectively have a LARGER footprint?
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 07:33 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It's annoying being on ignore, specially when their argument is so incredibly lame and transparent it's easily shot down, yet they keep spouting it off again and again and again.
In my mind, the "ignore list" is like the ostrich with its head in the sand - pretending that something isn't there.

(I have no ignore list - but I do look at the nickname of the poster before reading the post.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
The iMac is not just an entry level user machine.
I'd phrase that as "The Imac is exactly an entry level user machine, but since Apple has abandoned the pro-sumer market, and left the (Mac Pro) power user with years old technology - many 'non-entry level users' are trying to make do with an entry-level config".
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 08:04 PM   #508
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 08:21 PM   #509
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If you want upgradeability, the whole iMac concept is not for you. I, for one, is still regretting the purchase of 2008 24" iMac. I still love the IPS 1920 x 1200 screen so much, but the internals are getting very very old. But I can't change the computer part without throwing away the screen! Okay I can upgrade the RAM to....4GB? and I still need to lift up the display to change the HDD! So it's only acting as a dumb screen now.

I think the Mac mini + thunderbolt display is a much better option - but the thunderbolt display has its own problem - doesn't support miniDisplayPort!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 09:22 PM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
In my mind, the "ignore list" is like the ostrich with its head in the sand - pretending that something isn't there.

(I have no ignore list - but I do look at the nickname of the poster before reading the post.)
The only way I'd ever see myself using the ignore feature is if some really obnoxious bastard keeps posting gigantic images on a slow connection to the forums over and over and over again, breaking the table and causing the screen to jerk around as each one loads individually.

They'd have to do it a crapton before I'd consider it though. Otherwise, I'd consider it a wasted effort. I mean all I'd have to do if I don't want to read someone's post is scroll down a bit.

Quote:
I'd phrase that as "The Imac is exactly an entry level user machine, but since Apple has abandoned the pro-sumer market, and left the (Mac Pro) power user with years old technology - many 'non-entry level users' are trying to make do with an entry-level config".
I'd say the high end iMac as being a fairly decent prosumer machine. It'll handle about 99% of everything Photoshop related, can deal with 3D applications like Zbrush, Max, Modo, ect. without a hitch until you start getting into bleeding edge really deep end of the pool (which isn't prosumer territory), is a good programming platform, and is probably excellent at messing with audio mixing software.

It's not the absolute fastest prosumer machine out there, but it is the best for its size. And if you want to run OSX, you don't have much of a choice outside of dealing with a hackintosh.

I'd consider a loaded 27" as being a roughly entry-level-of-the-high-end computer. If anyone needs more, well...they're probably out buying Dells and HP Z-series machines.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 09:25 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by r.harris1 View Post
To be fair, the responses in this thread show both sides in the extreme - yes on your point above, but also we're seeing a lot of this - "I like to repair my machines, now I can't (very easily) and as such, everyone should care, Apple sucks, everything's an epic fail and if you don't agree, you're just a fanboi".

Personally, I'd love to be able to get to both the HD and RAM in a reasonably straight-forward fashion because aftermarket RAM is cheaper, sometimes substantially, and hard drives fail. As has already been pointed out, it's highly unlikely, however, that Apple will go back to the old ways. That means people will need to make a decision on what is important and go with it.

I used to build my own high-end machines when we had Windows at my house. Turned out I spent a lot of time and $$$ keeping those machines up-to-date with the ever-changing world of graphics/CPU/MB changes, power supplies, monitors, drives. I spent at least as much money doing that as swapping out our Mac Book Pros every few years plus, quite frankly, too much time dicking around with the hardware. Computers to me now are useful tools that I don't want to think about too much - life's too short.

That said, being able to swap out the HD or RAM without being a contortion specialist would be nice.
Amen brother! I too used to put together my own computers. Now I have more computers in my house but spend time less time on system admin tasks because they're Macs. I have two iMacs and they're the quietest, most beautiful, and most enjoyable computers I've ever owned.

With that said I do wish Apple made a desktop computer aside from Mac Pro. All their other machines are glorified laptops. They're beautiful but for the money I'd also appreciate an option with desktop power. I think I'm going to hold out and see what happens with the Mac Pro next year...the chassis could use some slimming but hopefully not too much; after all I don't want Apple to turn those things into glorified laptops also.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 09:43 PM   #512
Swordylove
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EDIT: Misread the article. It was talking about the glue to the frame. Well okay. I'm one of those people who are never gonna get into the iMac themselves, so it still doesn't matter to me.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:23 PM   #513
MacDarcy
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I've always been an iMac guy. But I was thinking of going the Mac mini plus Apple Cinema Display route this time. I figured it'd be more cost effective in the future to just keep upgrading the computer(Mac mini or MacBook) and keep the Cinema Display constant.....

However....after pricing the i7 Mac mini with fusion drive and keyboard plus Cinema Display, it was more than the i7 27" iMac.

And then I thought I could always use the 27" iMac as a Cinema Display 5 years down the road if I outgrow the computer part.

So I think I'm gonna get the 27" i7 iMac after all.

I just gotta figure out what configuration HD and GPU.

I plan to do a lot of video and photo editing. ;-)
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:31 PM   #514
Vodka
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
iFixit team to give the 21" iMac a repairability score of 3 out of 10, down from 7 out of 10 for last year's model.
thanks, but i'll wait for a 10/10 imac









lol
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:37 PM   #515
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The magnets of yesteryear were brilliant. Now I will be stuck with two big glass suckers and nothing to do... considering this teardown, I would give apple a rating of 1 outta 10 (at least you can still take the power plug outta the back).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDarcy View Post
However....after pricing the i7 Mac mini with fusion drive and keyboard plus Cinema Display, it was more than the i7 27" iMac.
I haven't done the math, but that surprised me. I assumed it would roughly be the same. I have old iMacs and lots of newer Minis running as servers, and the only downside to this route (last time I checked) was that the mac mini had a weaker GPU. So that would not bode well for editing work. Hmmm....
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:37 PM   #516
belbri
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Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchneiderMan View Post
When you have AppleCare, why bother repairing it yourself? One of the key advantages in getting a Mac is that it isn't some PC you either have to try to fix yourself or go thru hell to get support for it.
I couldn't agree more. I have never thought about repairing one myself. Applecare rocks!!
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 10:56 PM   #517
drblank
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For the best way to buy Macs is this. Buy the most expensive model you can afford and make sure you get AppleCare, typically within the first year or two a replacement model comes out. When you buy the computer, keep it in imaculate condition, with a good surge protector/UPS (Tripp Lite, CyberPower, APC) all make nice ones. Also keep ALL of the packaging. Then after the next model gets announced, figure out how much the system you is worth, sell it and buy the model that replaces it. The AppleCare warranty is transferable, which increases the resale value because whatever is left over can be transferred to the new owner and they feel more comfortable that it's got the original box, etc. and still has some AppleCare left on it. If you do this, you will probably pay around $1,000 to $1,500 a year for you to always have the latest and greatest. You will typically have little or no problem offing the old machine to someone else.

But, if you have plenty of money and want to be generous, you can donate to someone else after the AppleCare Warranty is up and do this every three years.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 11:06 PM   #518
ProVideo
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The top comment on this article makes me wish the downvote button was back. Taking away the ability to upgrade RAM and the internal Hard Drive is BS in my opinion.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 11:35 PM   #519
ThatGuyInLa
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I still see no reason to give up my mid-2010 27" top-spec iMac. Testament to what an amazing machine they made...back then.

I've upgraded the ram, dropped in an SSD, and this has kept it a power-house. The cpu and gpu still allow me to do my 3D apps as well as games (both in OSX and Bootcamp)

Not sure how much of this is Apple's fault in the lack of upgrading desire. INTEL may be to blame more so. CPUs have really peaked in the last couple years. GPUs are still blazing a trail but we don't really need them to be any faster based on what's offered software wise. Hence why my mobile ATI 5750 GPU is still plenty.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 11:51 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
Enough of the "too much emphasis on thin" whining.
A thin desktop isn't a good selling point for a computer you hardly are ever going to pick up. Not saying it doesn't look good, just not a good selling point.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 11:56 PM   #521
frega
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27" is RAM upgradable, I don't get all this yammering.

Hopefully mid size Powermac with the redesign, I really want to dump my gaming PC.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:07 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by hlfway2anywhere View Post
a lot of people are about to complain saying that the new iMac isn't repairable. these same people would have never replaced an LCD in their iMac anyway.
Only because they make it so hard!

At a minimum, the hard drive and RAM should be accessible. Ideally, GPU and possible CPU too.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchneiderMan View Post
When you have AppleCare, why bother repairing it yourself? One of the key advantages in getting a Mac is that it isn't some PC you either have to try to fix yourself or go thru hell to get support for it.
I don't think Applecare covers upgrades?
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 12:16 AM   #523
rdlink
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Originally Posted by gotluck View Post
so because i enjoy dealing with the internals means im banging my head agaisnt the wall...

I suppose you have equal disdain for those who enjoy working on their cars, or anyone with a hobby for that matter...
No, my disdain is for people who buy a computer whose internals are not meant to be "dealt with," and blast the company who makes it. If messing around inside your computer is your idea of fun, buy computers that invite that type of messing. Don't crap all over Apple for making computers for the rest of us.

Nothing wrong with working on your own car. I did it for decades (mainly out of necessity). But don't buy a 2012 Mercedes and expect to work on it like it's a 1965 Mustang.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:09 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by rdlink View Post
No, my disdain is for people who buy a computer whose internals are not meant to be "dealt with," and blast the company who makes it. If messing around inside your computer is your idea of fun, buy computers that invite that type of messing. Don't crap all over Apple for making computers for the rest of us.

Nothing wrong with working on your own car. I did it for decades (mainly out of necessity). But don't buy a 2012 Mercedes and expect to work on it like it's a 1965 Mustang.
I think the point is partly that the design seems wasteful. Don't know whether it is or not as I don't have the numbers, but as with my industry when a single component on a board fails, you replace entire power modules a lot of the time. The rest goes in the bin.
Your point about buying what suits is a valid one though, I was seriously considering the new iMac but I'll probably now go for the Mac Pro. I need to be able to upgrade/renew the HD/RAM if I choose.
Apples ongoing business model means I have to make a choice and it means I'll either have to like it or lump it. If I like it, fine. If I don't I need to go for another manufacturer or decide to start tinkering with something else.

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Old Dec 3, 2012, 01:25 AM   #525
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With memory I have to agree. Most iMac users have just bought the stock amount and upgraded to the max they wanted 3rd party ram as soon as possible. Cause it is cheaper them via Apple. Very few stick with the stock amount of ram till they need to get more.

Understanding this means apart from the cost, there is no issue for Apple to put in more ram. Saves the user to have to buy the ram 3rd party and put it in. And yes in my opinion putting ram into my 2011 iMac was a real pain in the ass. Design flaw in my opinion. Much much easier of my old 17 2006 white iMac.

So I feel most users are not crying that they can't have the amount of ram in the 12.5 iMac they want. I feel it's not liking the fact Apple charges more then what you can DIY for ram installation, that is making people not happy.
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