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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:53 PM   #51
aerok
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Originally Posted by MacFoodPoisoner View Post
that's complete rubbish. Any power computer user (as loosely defined as that may be) knows one of THE most important aspects when buying a desktop is repairability and upgradability, because parts age and fail and have to be replaced. To a lot of people it's a joy too, and hobby to get some more ram, a better hd, an ssd later on, and tweak their computer a bit to extend it's age, or simply for the fun of it.

There are countless users, even novice ones who have added drives, memory, or did other minor tweaks and modifications, and even repairs to their macs. To claim that people complaining about repairability ( eg to throw some more ram in you have to cross your heart and play strip poker for a few hours with the imac so you can pretty much take everything out and go at the very backside of the mobo to get to it) are those who 'd have never done any repairs to it is simply bonkers.
I want to agree with you but I think over 90% of the population have never opened a PC...
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:53 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by brock2621 View Post
Somebody here reads Engadget...
Not really, I am not that into these types of websites to be honest, I like more tech news and less gadgety news, I might go for the uk site the register for example, but engadget has some respectability at least, gizmodo too, not too bad... the verge is simply unbearable in the way they suck up to apple, and the fanboism that ensues, I for once can't stomach it...
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:53 PM   #53
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27" seems way better than the 21" from a lot of different perspectives.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:56 PM   #54
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Very disappointing, I'm also glad I've got the 2011 model, I love the way the new one looks, but it not being user serviceable is a problem, this means repairs & upgrades will come at a premium cost..

Apple probably benefits from this move, but we certainly don't..
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:58 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by MacFoodPoisoner View Post
that's complete rubbish. Any power computer user (as loosely defined as that may be) knows one of THE most important aspects when buying a desktop is repairability and upgradability, because parts age and fail and have to be replaced. To a lot of people it's a joy too, and hobby to get some more ram, a better hd, an ssd later on, and tweak their computer a bit to extend it's age, or simply for the fun of it.

There are countless users, even novice ones who have added drives, memory, or did other minor tweaks and modifications, and even repairs to their macs. To claim that people complaining about repairability ( eg to throw some more ram in you have to cross your heart and play strip poker for a few hours with the imac so you can pretty much take everything out and go at the very backside of the mobo to get to it) are those who 'd have never done any repairs to it is simply bonkers.
Nah...don't bother to explain it to them...they will learn the hard way when they have to pay 600 just to get a Harddrive repaired. And believe me: they will wail!

Me? I love Apple Notebooks and work primarily on a 13" Retina MacBook Pro. I don't care for upgradability there as much, because I know exactly what it can do and what not and after a couple of years you just need to get a new one anyway. I was actually going to buy the 27" iMac but this made this a no buy for me. Instead I just ordered all the parts for a nice Windows gaming rig and a screen which I can use together with my MacBook Pro. All for less then 1500
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
LOL! Apple's slipping standards are infectious.
it's those ever thinning dictionaries and grammar books!!

(Come to think of it I am glad apple isn't in charge of designing other items, I shudder to think what would happen if they took up for example elevator design or submarine design... or, em, condom design.. it'd be a pretty tight world that's for sure...)
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:02 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
I want to agree with you but I think over 90% of the population have never opened a PC...
Pretty sure your wrong, the most common upgrades people make is Memory & Hard drives..
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:04 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatian View Post
Nah...don't bother to explain it to them...they will learn the hard way when they have to pay 600 just to get a Harddrive repaired. And believe me: they will wail!

Me? I love Apple Notebooks and work primarily on a 13" Retina MacBook Pro. I don't care for upgradability there as much, because I know exactly what it can do and what not and after a couple of years you just need to get a new one anyway. I was actually going to buy the 27" iMac but this made this a no buy for me. Instead I just ordered all the parts for a nice Windows gaming rig and a screen which I can use together with my MacBook Pro. All for less then 1500
Huh, I had my hard drive in my 2011 27" fixed for free. And will be able to until September of 2014, then I'll be on the market for something new.

I get it, people get hard ons for tinkering, but remember the vast majority of computer users don't. They call support, they take them to repair shops, most people just don't care to tinker or have the knowledge.

Do you bitch when most of your car's internals aren't designed to be user repairable?
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:05 PM   #59
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proprietary SSD connector

It will be very interesting to learn if the SSD connector is soldered on the 27".
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:06 PM   #60
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This thread pretty much mirrors the exact same complaints when the first iMac came out that had an integrated design (the first one after the lamp-style ones).

In general people that need upgradability aren't buying iMacs. They have ALWAYS been a pain in the ass to take apart. For awhile they didn't even have a RAM compartment. Seriously the number of complainers VASTLY outweighs the number of people who have actually taken one apart.

The 27 inch iMac still has upgradable RAM through a special compartment, so it's still a possibility with that model.

Just get over it, there is no need to be upset over something you can't control and something you don't need to care about.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:06 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by aerok View Post
I want to agree with you but I think over 90% of the population have never opened a PC...
That's always been the case though, it's not an excuse for apple to mar how upgradable and repairable their computers are, I think you 'll agree there. Anyway I said countless people have opened up and repaired/upgraded their computers, even 1% of the computer using population amounts to millions of people.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:07 PM   #62
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And besides, it is known, at least here in the US, that products made here a usually higher quality than those made overseas.
You mean "higher quality" like the Apple ///?
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:10 PM   #63
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When I first saw the iMac, I thought Apple would have created a small door in the back to open to get to the hard drive and memory really easy.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:11 PM   #64
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"Apple has swapped out the 3.5 desktop hard drive for a 2.5 HGST laptop hard drive, freeing up valuable space."

I don't understand why this is "valuable space"? It's a desktop, space is plentiful and since it's on the back of the monitor it doesn't take up any desk space...

A 3.5" drive that's cheaper (and probably faster) seems to make more sense than a 2.5" drive that's more costly and likely slower. (Unless of course you replace it with a SSD.)

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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:14 PM   #65
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Darn. I had just gotten suction cups too.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:15 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamcha View Post
Very disappointing, I'm also glad I've got the 2011 model, I love the way the new one looks, but it not being user serviceable is a problem, this means repairs & upgrades will come at a premium cost..

Apple probably benefits from this move, but we certainly don't..
I agree, am also glad I have a maxed-out 2011 iMac. Just a quick example of WHY this matters: today I took my computer to an AASP because of an annoying coil whine coming from the top.

Turns out it was the PSU that needs replacement. The technician showed this ON THE SPOT, after just pulling the outer glass and unscrewing the LCD part. Final cost? USD 200, split between 110 for the PSU plus 90 for the service (this in Switzerland, the country with one of the highest manual labor rates in the world).

And why this relatively cheap rate? Because it barely takes 30min for him to replace the PSU. Now think about how much costlier would such a repair be on the new iMac...
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:16 PM   #67
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The lack of repairability and DIY upgradeability on their main "desktop" computer is depressing.

When car manufactures did something similar by really limiting what DIY people could repair at least they extended the factory warranties from 1 year to 3 years. Shame Apple couldn't follow that example.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:17 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by sectime View Post
Biologicals and glue are different things
Granting that I'm not too bright, but if that means what I think it means...nasty, nasty, nasty.

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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:20 PM   #69
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The lack of repairability and DIY upgradeability on their main "desktop" computer is depressing.

When car manufactures did something similar by really limiting what DIY people could repair at least they extended the factory warranties from 1 year to 3 years. Shame Apple couldn't follow that example.
With SJ gone, the fabled headless xMac is coming, worry not.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:22 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Yamcha View Post
Pretty sure your wrong, the most common upgrades people make is Memory & Hard drives..
You're right about one thing. The most common upgrades are, indeed, memory and hard disks. On the other hand, the original statement which you disputed is *also* correct. Less than 10% of computer-owning individuals have ever so much as opened the case, much less actually performed an upgrade themselves.

Us technologically inquisitive and competent folks are less common than you assume.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:22 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by El Burro View Post
One of the most important things with computers is upgradability. Why spend $2000 for a computer only for it to no longer have the minimum requirements needed 3-5 years from now, and then shell out another $2000. It's a waste of money, and resources (so much for environmental sustainability). You are the type of customer that will just shell out money without looking into cheaper alternatives such as upgradings part on a slightly older but still perfectly useable computer.

In any case, does this concern iFixit's profit line? Yes, of course, they are a business. But you make it sound as though that they are a self-serving business that provide absolutely no positive service for consumer, when that is not the case at all. Their repair guides are extremely useful (which are free and publicly available) and have helped me more than a dozen times in repairing and upgrading my various computers over the years. Oh, and for the record, what does Apple provide for self-servicing your Apple device? Nothing, nada. Apple's technician guides are not publicly distributed (unless you know how to find it online) and the funny thing is there is nothing that is rocket science in those books. Let's just say that if you can build Legos, you can upgrade a computer easily.

And when your warranty runs out and your trackpad breaks down? Should you really have Apple charge you $200 for the repair, when you can do it yourself for $30 by finding the part on eBay and using a little common sense?

If there is any company that is only concerning their own profit-margins without any net benefit to the user, it's Apple. It only benefits them by making Apple computers not upgradable because then it coerces the consumer to buy a new computer. All for what? A microscopic .000001" reduction in thickness that you can't even notice?

Look at the Macbook Pro Retina, which is the worst computer in terms of upgradability. Once the battery craps out (which Applecare won't cover), you have to spend $200 to get it upgraded, and if you did it yourself it would cost $500. Before that model, even the Macbook Pros were considered "unupgradable" but in reality, all you had to do was remove the lid, and simply unplug the old battery with a new one (which goes for $50 brand new on eBay versus from Apple which charges $130!).

tl;dr - Don't blame iFixit, they're providing a valuable service to consumers that Apple, selfishly and deliberately, is hindering. If Apple makes their future Macbook Pros unupgradable (i.e. RAM, Hard Drive, and most importantly the battery), then I will choose not to buy another Macbook and go back to Windows (which I haven't done in 8 years now).
Wow!!! Thank you for saying that. I couldn't agree more! After buying many Apple devices over the years the last "upgrades" of iMacs, MacBooks, iPads and iphone5 are a huge disappointment to me. To the point that I lost any desire upgrading to a new Apple device. Now looking into alternatives.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:23 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by garylapointe View Post
"Apple has swapped out the 3.5 desktop hard drive for a 2.5 HGST laptop hard drive, freeing up valuable space."

I don't understand why this is "valuable space"? It's a desktop, space is plentiful and since it's on the back of the monitor it doesn't take up any desk space...

A 3.5" drive that's cheaper (and probably faster) seems to make more sense than a 2.5" drive that's more costly and likely slower. (Unless of course you replace it with a SSD.)

Gary
Don't forget more reliable.

It's this insane race towards some perceived stylishness, or whatever it is, that always frustrates me with Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some odd caveat about swapping in a new SSD.

Thinness for thinness's sake should just be labeled as anorexia.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:23 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by azentropy View Post
The lack of repairability and DIY upgradeability on their main "desktop" computer is depressing.

When car manufactures did something similar by really limiting what DIY people could repair at least they extended the factory warranties from 1 year to 3 years. Shame Apple couldn't follow that example.
They do though you have to pay for it with Applecare. Perhaps reduce the cost of Applecare across the board for all models.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:25 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
I agree, am also glad I have a maxed-out 2011 iMac. Just a quick example of WHY this matters: today I took my computer to an AASP because of an annoying coil whine coming from the top.

Turns out it was the PSU that needs replacement. The technician showed this ON THE SPOT, after just pulling the outer glass and unscrewing the LCD part. Final cost? USD 200, split between 110 for the PSU plus 90 for the service (this in Switzerland, the country with one of the highest manual labor rates in the world).

And why this relatively cheap rate? Because it barely takes 30min for him to replace the PSU. Now think about how much costlier would such a repair be on the new iMac...
Probably about the same. Of course, your 2011 iMac probably still should have been under warranty (unless Switzerland doesn't share the 2-year minimum that's common across most of Europe).
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 04:25 PM   #75
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Here's the deal, iFixit MAKES MONEY from repairing machines and trying to convince users they too can repair crap if they purchase their tools. So their "3 out of 10" is basically just their profit margins going down. Of course they are going to be "disappointed..."

I'm not sure if they missed it, but this is an ALL IN ONE machine, which by their very nature aren't generally easy to bust open and start swapping things out.

Besides, by the time you are in dire need of upgrading the CPU, Intel switches sockets on ya.

In short, it's cool to see how they are put together, but iFixit's "ratings" are dumb when done on devices like this, Apple or not.
Load of rubbish. Have you ever been on iFixits site? Looked through thier guides? I have used them many times to upgrade components and have never bought anything from iFixit. It's not rocket science the new gen of macs are not made to be user servicable, hence the low scores, not a markerting conspiracy theory. My 2009 iMac is very serviceable , and thanks to ifixit guides I have stripped it down and upgraded the hdd, ram, ssd, and an additional hdd in place of the DVD.

Ummm upgrading the CPU in a mac!?!?!?! Lol....Well that one line explains you would never try to upgrade something yourself. Hint the while line comes with soldered on CPUs. Unless you means the mac pros..... But no issues with servability when it comes to those.
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