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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:26 PM   #76
namethisfile
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Originally Posted by brock2621 View Post
Here's the deal, iFixit MAKES MONEY from repairing machines and trying to convince users they too can repair crap if they purchase their tools. So their "3 out of 10" is basically just their profit margins going down. Of course they are going to be "disappointed..."

I'm not sure if they missed it, but this is an ALL IN ONE machine, which by their very nature aren't generally easy to bust open and start swapping things out.

Besides, by the time you are in dire need of upgrading the CPU, Intel switches sockets on ya.

In short, it's cool to see how they are put together, but iFixit's "ratings" are dumb when done on devices like this, Apple or not.
sometimes you need to get inside the computer yourself. some folks would not do it, but there are many who will. ifixit is basically saying to these handy people that it sucks going inside the new imac.

you are dumb.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:28 PM   #77
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Probably about the same. Of course, your 2011 iMac probably still should have been under warranty (unless Switzerland doesn't share the 2-year minimum that's common across most of Europe).
Your missing the point . Not everyone town/city has an apple store, so WHEN it's out of warranty, they are going to charge labour by the hour.

Swiss is not part of the EU
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:29 PM   #78
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I'm sure we will see "repair kits" pop up soon that contains a roll of tape with some foam layered in and some sort of tool to loosen the screen out. So what, we need to use 4 strips of adhesive tape to put the computer back together? I will gladly take that. Here is my reason based upon my own experiences:

The 07-09 iMac (the first aluminum model) was a pain to get inside of. The glass panel needed to be removed with suction cups. Then it needed to be gently placed aside and covered to avoid dust/finger prints. Next, 12 screws need to be removed carefully to take the front aluminum case off. This is interesting considering one slip up can result in a screw dropping onto the screen or a screw driver hitting the screen. After removing the front panel, there is then 4 wires and 2 more screws. Next there is 8 screws to remove the actual LCD screen followed by 2 power cables that need unplugging. There, now you're inside!

Things got a little better with the 09-11 unibody iMac. To get inside of that model it consisted of removing the front glass panel, and carefully putting it away somewhere to avoid dirt/dust. Next, 8 torx screws need removing. Again, a similar situation where one slip up can result in a screw or screw driver hitting the LED screen. Once those screws are out, then the screen needs to be carefully titled from the top and 4 connections need to be removed, including a very delicate display connection. There, now you're inside!

The new 2012 iMac seems to consist of removing the adhesive tape and disconnecting what looks like 3 connections. Display, power, temp sensor of some sorts - iFixit wasn't very clear on what cables to disconnect on that particular step, either way it looks way better than the past two generations. There, now you're inside!

Slap some new adhesive to the screen or to the iMac chassis, plop the screen in. Done. No dust behind a glass panel. No finger prints behind a glass panel. No nonsense.

Sure, it would've been great to have this thing open up nicely, but really how much stuff are you changing in and out of an All in One machine? I will open mine after 3 or 4 years to breathe some new life into it, then I will close it and leave it that way until I probably sell it.

If you want a machine to swap components in and out of, hang on tight for the 2013 Mac Pro.

Although lets hope they don't glue the side panel down
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:31 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
Probably about the same. Of course, your 2011 iMac probably still should have been under warranty (unless Switzerland doesn't share the 2-year minimum that's common across most of Europe).
The same with adhesive replacement? Absolutely not.

And no, Switzerland's warranty is of one year, not two.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:34 PM   #80
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that's complete rubbish. Any power computer user (as loosely defined as that may be) knows one of THE most important aspects when buying a desktop is repairability and upgradability, because parts age and fail and have to be replaced. To a lot of people it's a joy too, and hobby to get some more ram, a better hd, an ssd later on, and tweak their computer a bit to extend it's age, or simply for the fun of it.
Perhaps the forthcoming Mac Pro that Tim Cook promised is more suited for those users, then. Right now Apple is laser focused on the premium consumer market, most of whom are not the type who would perform upgrades to a PC.

Upgradeability was more important to the "average" PC buyer in the 1980s and 1990s when PCs were much more expensive than they are now. $2,000 sounds like a lot for a PC now. However, in the 1990s it was considered cheap (in 1990s dollars). So obviously upgradability was important. iMac has left the most likely upgrades possible (RAM and HDD), and Thunderbolt has the potential to make other external upgrades feasible, as well.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:35 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Johnf1285 View Post
I'm sure we will see "repair kits" pop up soon that contains a roll of tape with some foam layered in and some sort of tool to loosen the screen out. So what, we need to use 4 strips of adhesive tape to put the computer back together? I will gladly take that. Here is my reason based upon my own experiences:

The 07-09 iMac (the first aluminum model) was a pain to get inside of. The glass panel needed to be removed with suction cups. Then it needed to be gently placed aside and covered to avoid dust/finger prints. Next, 12 screws need to be removed carefully to take the front aluminum case off. This is interesting considering one slip up can result in a screw dropping onto the screen or a screw driver hitting the screen. After removing the front panel, there is then 4 wires and 2 more screws. Next there is 8 screws to remove the actual LCD screen followed by 2 power cables that need unplugging. There, now you're inside!

Things got a little better with the 09-11 unibody iMac. To get inside of that model it consisted of removing the front glass panel, and carefully putting it away somewhere to avoid dirt/dust. Next, 8 torx screws need removing. Again, a similar situation where one slip up can result in a screw or screw driver hitting the LED screen. Once those screws are out, then the screen needs to be carefully titled from the top and 4 connections need to be removed, including a very delicate display connection. There, now you're inside!

The new 2012 iMac seems to consist of removing the adhesive tape and disconnecting what looks like 3 connections. Display, power, temp sensor of some sorts - iFixit wasn't very clear on what cables to disconnect on that particular step, either way it looks way better than the past two generations. There, now you're inside!

Slap some new adhesive to the screen or to the iMac chassis, plop the screen in. Done. No dust behind a glass panel. No finger prints behind a glass panel. No nonsense.

Sure, it would've been great to have this thing open up nicely, but really how much stuff are you changing in and out of an All in One machine? I will open mine after 3 or 4 years to breathe some new life into it, then I will close it and leave it that way until I probably sell it.

If you want a machine to swap components in and out of, hang on tight for the 2013 Mac Pro.

Although lets hope they don't glue the side panel down
good arguments. except i would rather deal with the extra steps than having to use heat gun and tape.

heat gun and tape for an idevice--sure.

for a desktop....tssk, tsk tsk apple designers & engineers

Last edited by namethisfile; Dec 1, 2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:36 PM   #82
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If this was a pro machine concern and angst would be appropriate. The iMac is a consumer desktop though. Most consumers will not DIY repairs but rather take to Apple, who will repair or properly recycle it.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:37 PM   #83
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Ahhh... more self-righteous and self-serving indignation from the iFixit folks.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:50 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Johnf1285 View Post
I'm sure we will see "repair kits" pop up soon that contains a roll of tape with some foam layered in and some sort of tool to loosen the screen out. So what, we need to use 4 strips of adhesive tape to put the computer back together? I will gladly take that. Here is my reason based upon my own experiences:

The 07-09 iMac (the first aluminum model) was a pain to get inside of. The glass panel needed to be removed with suction cups. Then it needed to be gently placed aside and covered to avoid dust/finger prints. Next, 12 screws need to be removed carefully to take the front aluminum case off. This is interesting considering one slip up can result in a screw dropping onto the screen or a screw driver hitting the screen. After removing the front panel, there is then 4 wires and 2 more screws. Next there is 8 screws to remove the actual LCD screen followed by 2 power cables that need unplugging. There, now you're inside!

Things got a little better with the 09-11 unibody iMac. To get inside of that model it consisted of removing the front glass panel, and carefully putting it away somewhere to avoid dirt/dust. Next, 8 torx screws need removing. Again, a similar situation where one slip up can result in a screw or screw driver hitting the LED screen. Once those screws are out, then the screen needs to be carefully titled from the top and 4 connections need to be removed, including a very delicate display connection. There, now you're inside!

The new 2012 iMac seems to consist of removing the adhesive tape and disconnecting what looks like 3 connections. Display, power, temp sensor of some sorts - iFixit wasn't very clear on what cables to disconnect on that particular step, either way it looks way better than the past two generations. There, now you're inside!

Slap some new adhesive to the screen or to the iMac chassis, plop the screen in. Done. No dust behind a glass panel. No finger prints behind a glass panel. No nonsense.

Sure, it would've been great to have this thing open up nicely, but really how much stuff are you changing in and out of an All in One machine? I will open mine after 3 or 4 years to breathe some new life into it, then I will close it and leave it that way until I probably sell it.

If you want a machine to swap components in and out of, hang on tight for the 2013 Mac Pro.

Although lets hope they don't glue the side panel down
Having replaced the drive inside my 2009 27" iMac, the above is completely true. Just because you need to replace some easy-to-remove adhesive on the 2012 model doesn't make this a 3 out of 10 repair job. iFixit are just plain wrong with this assessment. At least one person has opened up this new iMac and said taking it apart was simple and the adhesive peels right off. So with a few replacement strips this is likely the easiest iMac to tinker with, ever.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:52 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by hlfway2anywhere View Post
a lot of people are about to complain saying that the new iMac isn't repairable. these same people would have never replaced an LCD in their iMac anyway.
Yes, but the next owner of the iMac might have done so. Or maybe the owner after that. Glue is clearly a less elegant design than magnets.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:54 PM   #86
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Huh, I had my hard drive in my 2011 27" fixed for free. And will be able to until September of 2014, then I'll be on the market for something new.

I get it, people get hard ons for tinkering, but remember the vast majority of computer users don't. They call support, they take them to repair shops, most people just don't care to tinker or have the knowledge.

Do you bitch when most of your car's internals aren't designed to be user repairable?
I don't have a car nor a driving license so I wouldn't know...I also understand that you have Apple Care, but not everybody wants to buy into this (especially since it is more expensive here in Europe, while offering less service and Apple is arguably not quite upfront with the conditions). Not to mention the fact what happens after the 3 years. I'd like to tell you a little anecdote: Apple "offered" to replace my broken keyboard on my old 2008 unibody MacBook Pro for a whopping 600 for parts and labor, all because the keyboard can't be replaced by itself (you have to get an entire new top case) and because you essentially have to take the entire thing apart. Well in the end I just purchased the top case (which is hard enough because Apple doesn't just sell you repair parts) and replaced it myself saving over 400. Guess how much Apple would charge you for a broken Harddisk on those new iMacs? And I hardly consider a 3 yo replacement circle common. For most people the iMac is more power then they will need for a couple of years and ifixit has a point: repairing is recycling...it's not like after three years you are throwing the machine away...you probably just sell it and somebody else is going to use it...he will most definitely run into a problem with the Harddisk without any warranty solution.

Now I'm not saying don't get the new iMac and you point is very valid: most of the people won't care. Still it has a sour taste to it - Apple is trying to nickel and dime on every possible way and this is why I vote with my wallet although it probably won't matter. The iMac would be just to many compromises for me. Your mileage may differ.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by deanbo View Post
Stick an optical drive back in it Tim. Also how much does it cost Apple for "all" that componentry? And how big would the bulge in back of the iMac be if they hadn't used the highest profile cooling fan they could possibly find mounted on top of the single speaker that's in the iMac?
Uhhh, that's not a speaker, its one of the wifi antennas. The TWO speakers are those large black things on the sides.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:58 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by ValSalva View Post
Ahhh... more self-righteous and self-serving indignation from the iFixit folks.
I'm waiting for another rant from Kyle about Jony Ive being the devil.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:58 PM   #89
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Who cares. Glue the ***** out of it, just make it thinner.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:59 PM   #90
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I used to care about easy upgradability, but recently I've come to a conclusion about the whole thing:

The ability to upgrade and fix the hardware in your own computer is an antiquated vestige of a bygone era, when home computers were owned mostly by hobbyists and tinkerers. As the technology has progressed, it is inevitable that it will become more and more difficult to add-in or change parts ourselves.

To all the complainers, look at the broader picture here: you can walk into a store today and buy a computer thinner than your arm that has likely has more power and storage space than every computer produced in the 1970s and 1980s combined. Not to mention a screen of a fidelity nearly inconceivable just 10 or 15 years ago.

All for less than $2000. The original PC's used to cost nearly 3x that amount. Another huge reason was why upgradability and access to hardware was essential.

Bottom line: if you find it exciting to be able to access the innards of your computer, buy an old Gateway 2000 tower for old times sake. For the rest of us, it's time to move on. Buy what you need for actual use, not what you're hoping you can tinker with 2 years from now.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:59 PM   #91
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Yeah rock that magical glue apple!!!

LMFAO at Apple fanboys saying time to move on. Glue is teh futrez!!
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 05:59 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ValSalva View Post
Ahhh... more self-righteous and self-serving indignation from the iFixit folks.
Ahhh... more self-righteous and self-serving indignation from the Technically challenged folks.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:03 PM   #93
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Having replaced the drive inside my 2009 27" iMac, the above is completely true. Just because you need to replace some easy-to-remove adhesive on the 2012 model doesn't make this a 3 out of 10 repair job. iFixit are just plain wrong with this assessment. At least one person has opened up this new iMac and said taking it apart was simple and the adhesive peels right off. So with a few replacement strips this is likely the easiest iMac to tinker with, ever.

3/10 is not just from the screen assembly... did you read the entire tear down?

but the glue heat gun tape thing makes putting it back together a little harder, not just taking it apart.

glueing stuff might work in idevices and batteries for laptops, but now desktops, too? it's sort of going backwards in my view.

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Originally Posted by swester View Post
I used to care about easy upgradability, but recently I've come to a conclusion about the whole thing:

The ability to upgrade and fix the hardware in your own computer is an antiquated vestige of a bygone era, when home computers were owned mostly by hobbyists and tinkerers. As the technology has progressed, it is inevitable that it will become more and more difficult to add-in or change parts ourselves.

To all the complainers, look at the broader picture here: you can walk into a store today and buy a computer thinner than your arm that has likely has more power and storage space than every computer produced in the 1970s and 1980s combined. Not to mention a screen of a fidelity nearly inconceivable just 10 or 15 years ago.

All for less than $2000. The original PC's used to cost nearly 3x that amount. Another huge reason was why upgradability and access to hardware was essential.

Bottom line: if you find it exciting to be able to access the innards of your computer, buy an old Gateway 2000 tower for old times sake. For the rest of us, it's time to move on. Buy what you need for actual use, not what you're hoping you can tinker with 2 years from now.
you mean "retina" displays? this kind of thinking is not helpful at all. if it is pro-design, then it is advocating the use of glue. if it isn't, it is advocating using gateway2000 pc's.

this guy is talking about the original pc. this rant is tiresome. he speaks of moving on but his own thinking is moving back.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:06 PM   #94
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Bad, if you want to upgrade RAM yourself or anything else that requires removing the front glass. Makes me glad I bought a 2011.
CNET showed the accessible ram slot in the back of the iMac where the plug goes.

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Yes of course the entire computer isn't made here. But I never knew Apple assembled or made any of their products here.
My 2011 27" iMac is assembled in the U.S.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:07 PM   #95
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We may all like to upgrade our computers, but we are the minority. And even when we do, it's just RAM or HDD. Nothing major like you can do with a desktop box.

To complain about computers not being user-repairable is odd. I wonder if our parents complained when TVs stopped being user repairable? (I remember my dad replacing valves.)

When was the last time any of you complained because your TV, DVD, microwave or any other appliance was not user-repairable?

Get over it. We're geeks and nerds. We like to tinker inside our computers, but we are the minority. Computers, like TVs, are becoming closed boxes, which means not user serviceable or repairable.

If it's really that important, buy a desktop box and build a hackintosh.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:11 PM   #96
namethisfile
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Originally Posted by ChrisH3677 View Post
We may all like to upgrade our computers, but we are the minority. And even when we do, it's just RAM or HDD. Nothing major like you can do with a desktop box.

To complain about computers not being user-repairable is odd. I wonder if our parents complained when TVs stopped being user repairable? (I remember my dad replacing valves.)

When was the last time any of you complained because your TV, DVD, microwave or any other appliance was not user-repairable?

Get over it. We're geeks and nerds. We like to tinker inside our computers, but we are the minority. Computers, like TVs, are becoming closed boxes, which means not user serviceable or repairable.

If it's really that important, buy a desktop box and build a hackintosh.
one doesn't hope to open a tv to repair it, nor a ps3. nor an iphone. but for heaven's sake, one expects to open up a desktop like an imac.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:17 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by ChrisH3677 View Post
We may all like to upgrade our computers, but we are the minority.

Get over it. We're geeks and nerds. We like to tinker inside our computers, but we are the minority. Computers, like TVs, are becoming closed boxes, which means not user serviceable or repairable.

If it's really that important, buy a desktop box and build a hackintosh.
Exactly. I'd estimate that 99% of computer users would never even consider attempting to repair or upgrade their own computer hardware anyway.

For the geeks and tinkerers, there's Hackintosh or 30+ years of computer history to play around with for excitement.

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one doesn't hope to open a tv to repair it, nor a ps3. nor an iphone. but for heaven's sake, one expects to open up a desktop like an imac.
Who apart from computer nerds and IT guys would expect that?

The iMac is anything but a traditional desktop. It has always sacrificed hardware access for the execution of design. If you have a problem with that, it isn't for you.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:17 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by swester View Post
Exactly. I'd estimate that 99% of computer users would never even consider attempting to repair or upgrade their own computer hardware anyway.

For the geeks and tinkerers, there's Hackintosh or 30+ years of computer history to play around with for excitement.
RAM and hard drive upgrades/repairs are fairly commonplace, even (or maybe especially) amongst Mac users. Having said that, I would not be too daunted with this unit. I think iFixit was being a little harsh in giving it a 3. More like a 4, IMO.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:20 PM   #99
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Perhaps the forthcoming Mac Pro that Tim Cook promised is more suited for those users, then. Right now Apple is laser focused on the premium consumer market, most of whom are not the type who would perform upgrades to a PC.

Upgradeability was more important to the "average" PC buyer in the 1980s and 1990s when PCs were much more expensive than they are now. $2,000 sounds like a lot for a PC now. However, in the 1990s it was considered cheap (in 1990s dollars). So obviously upgradability was important. iMac has left the most likely upgrades possible (RAM and HDD), and Thunderbolt has the potential to make other external upgrades feasible, as well.
I don't disagree essentially, but bear in mind that we are amidst a worldwide financial crises. Very few people even in the west, let alone the millions starving around the globe, can afford the prices apple charge for repairs and components. Besides something needing to be upgradable, it also has to be repairable. And while most people won't open up their imac I am sure most of us have a friend or a family member that's a handy person who'll tweak or do a little repair the cheap way for us when we need it.

Apple is sculpting a premium consumer market that supposedly likes thin and sealed products, with custom ports, and soldered memories (all premium from apple only of course), and custom ssds where industry standards would fit (case in point the ample room in the 13" rmbp where apple is sticking a flash module engolfed in rubber with tons of wasted space). There's planned obsolescence too, another major chapter too long to discuss here.

Their only motivation for that is more, and more, EASY profit, at HUGE margins, far, far wider than anyone in an industry with razor thin margins and a lot of very big players routinely going under, or being on the verge to do so, from sharp, to pioneer, to nokia, to blackberrry etc. etc. Now, there's nothing wrong with a company wanting more profits, but there's a fine line and a lot of question marks as to what extent they are taking advantage of their customers to get to them. I think they are, and I think they are shameless at doing so. And it's not only hardware, it's also for example how they went about colluding with book publishers to get to this market as well, causing an unprecedented increase in ebook prices for the average consumer. They have clout, they are hip, they are a status symbol in many parts of the world, and they have carved out a way of doing things. That doesn't mean their way of doing things won't backfire at some point.

The market of the premium consumer THEY are carving out, is in THEIR opinion not interested in upgrading, or rather in being denied the right to uprade or repair yourself, or have a friend do it, and do so cheaply, and to extend the life of your device thus. That's their opinion. Of course that's the way they can make the most money too. If I were Tim Cook I wouldn't be taking this route, I d be aware that I 've been overcharging for way too long, and that times and fashions change all the time, and I 'd offer my customers more choice, less lock in, more functionality, less pointless styling.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:21 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
CNET showed the accessible ram slot in the back of the iMac where the plug goes.

----------



My 2011 27" iMac is assembled in the U.S.
I'm talking about the 2012 base model.
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