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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:08 PM   #126
sambaphoto
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Warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
Warranty is void if they can see that you opened it. Sometimes they look the other way if you did a good job and the repair you are in for is unrelated to your upgrade. With the adhesive tape, however, it won't be too difficult to tell if you have tinkered with it.
Thanks for this reply. So why people will pay for the warranty and simply losing it changing components. I absolutely understand people, Apple only offers the very expensive 768GB SSD solution. E.g. I would go with a 256GB and a external TB SSD solution for my projects.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:12 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpat View Post
The ability of people to defend Apple's absurd choices in this thread are simply astounding.
Apple Loves you, stop being mean.

Quote:
A desktop computer. On which you can't upgrade the RAM. And it makes sense?
But why don't you just upgrade the ram via the Apple store? They need your money.



( I was being sarcastic btw )

Quote:
Of course it does for Apple. They have a brainwashed user base thinking that it was necessary and justifiable to make such an user-detrimental design choice, so they did.
Of course they have a brainwashed user base. They'll buy anything that says Apple on it.

Its like people who buy lets say, a Ferrari 458 over a Corvette ZR1, they both can do about 200mph, they both develop 500+ Horsepower, both can Lap the Ring in about the same amount of time, both are about as fast from 0-60, when it comes to performance, both are exactly the same.

Why do people buy the Ferrari? Looks, and brand name.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:12 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by brock2621 View Post
Here's the deal, iFixit MAKES MONEY from repairing machines and trying to convince users they too can repair crap if they purchase their tools. So their "3 out of 10" is basically just their profit margins going down. Of course they are going to be "disappointed..."

I'm not sure if they missed it, but this is an ALL IN ONE machine, which by their very nature aren't generally easy to bust open and start swapping things out.

Besides, by the time you are in dire need of upgrading the CPU, Intel switches sockets on ya.

In short, it's cool to see how they are put together, but iFixit's "ratings" are dumb when done on devices like this, Apple or not.
Agree. its definitely biting the hands that feeds them to an extent in my opinion


Quote:
Originally Posted by deanbo View Post
Stick an optical drive back in it Tim. Also how much does it cost Apple for "all" that componentry? And how big would the bulge in back of the iMac be if they hadn't used the highest profile cooling fan they could possibly find mounted on top of the single speaker that's in the iMac?
iMac has 2 speakers in them
Optical media has been disappearing and been less than required lately -- considering everything is available in digital download or digital delivery.
External drives are available and really bear no difference on cost whether they were included or not
The price increase is more likely for the assembly in the USA as well as the special welding they chose to incorporate with the new iMacs.
Of course, noone is forcing you to buy these machines.

I'd rather see a take apart for the 27inch and see how different that one may be
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:12 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

Do you bitch when most of your car's internals aren't designed to be user repairable?
Well put.

You people [who are complaining] must have a plethora of free time laying around to tinker with your machines. I certainly wouldn't want to waste my time and expose my machine to risk when I can just mitigate that by taking it to get repaired (IF its needed in the first place). That way if ***** gets broken, I have someone to blame other than myself.

It just seems people just need **** to bit*h about

Sorry for my language.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:14 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sambaphoto View Post
Thanks for this reply. So why people will pay for the warranty and simply losing it changing components. I absolutely understand people, Apple only offers the very expensive 768GB SSD solution. E.g. I would go with a 256GB and a external TB SSD solution for my projects.
If you plan on doing any internal work, don't purchase Applecare as it may be rendered worthless if they see what you did. With Thunderbolt and USB3, your external disk options are pretty good now so you don't have to worry too much. An external TBolt SSD will be nearly as fast as an internal SATA SSD.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:14 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by jamesryanbell View Post
27" seems way better than the 21" from a lot of different perspectives.
Like when sitting right in front of it using it.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:15 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

Do you bitch when most of your car's internals aren't designed to be user repairable?
I've been working on cars as a hobby for quite some time, and with a basic set of tools, and a Haynes book. Cars are VERY user repairable. Unless your talking engine or transmission work, most people have the brain power to repair them.

The last generation iMacs ( I own one ), were a pain in the ass to upgrade and repair on the user end, BUT, they could still be upgraded by the user. The new ones make it almost impossible.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:17 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

Do you bitch when most of your car's internals aren't designed to be user repairable?
Yes, I do bitch about this.

I like to fix my own stuff.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:22 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
If you plan on doing any internal work, don't purchase Applecare as it may be rendered worthless if they see what you did. With Thunderbolt and USB3, your external disk options are pretty good now so you don't have to worry too much. An external TBolt SSD will be nearly as fast as an internal SATA SSD.
Thank you very much...

What happens, when a Authorized Apple Service installs the new SSD? Will I lose also the warranty?

Sorry if I'm so insistent.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:24 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
If you plan on doing any internal work, don't purchase Applecare as it may be rendered worthless if they see what you did. With Thunderbolt and USB3, your external disk options are pretty good now so you don't have to worry too much. An external TBolt SSD will be nearly as fast as an internal SATA SSD.
Nearly as fast? Thunderbolt is 10Gbit, and SATA III is 6Gbit. If I don't open up my 27" iMac when it arrives, I have the comfort of knowing that when I go away on holiday etc, I can unplug and hide all my information easily in case of a break-in by using an SSD Thunderbolt disk. I think that's pretty nice.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:24 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by sambaphoto View Post
Thank you very much...

What happens, when a Authorized Apple Service installs the new SSD? Will I lose also the warranty?

Sorry if I'm so insistent.
Authorized repair centers will not affect the warranty. That is why they are Authorized. You will, of course, have to pay for the installation.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:32 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
Authorized repair centers will not affect the warranty. That is why they are Authorized. You will, of course, have to pay for the installation.
thank you!

Yes, that's really an option. I prefer to pay some dollars for the installation to protect my warranty.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:32 PM   #138
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What type of fool is happy with paying more for repairs or upgrades? Do you really want to pay $200 for 16GB of Memory vs $65? I don't understand how this is even a discussion.

Now I love the design on the 2012 iMac, but why do people insist on we don't need this, or we don't need that. As If you guys speak for the whole Mac user-base =/.

The decision made by Apple doesn't help us in any way.. Apple may make more money on this deal, but I don't see why people back them up as If we the users are benefiting by this change..
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:33 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mak47 View Post
I think it's funny to read how many people are convinced that Apple only builds things this way to make them harder to repair in a self-serving quest for profits.

How much money does anyone think Apple actually makes from component upgrades and repair services? Compared to the rest of their business, it's nothing. A fraction of nothing.

How much do they spend repairing or replacing these products when they fail? A whole lot more than they take in from upgrades.

This company understands the motivations of the average consumer. The average consumer isn't going to open up their computer to replace RAM or a hard drive, no matter how easy it is to any of us. They simply aren't going to do it. When something fails, they'll pay someone to fix it, or they'll just buy a new one. This is true whether or not the component is easy to access or the parts are inexpensive.

Apple has built their business on providing the products and experiences that are important to the average person, not on providing what matters to techies.

The fact is that 99% of the people who buy one of these machines, or any other other non-repairable products that Apple offers are going to be thrilled with them and never even think about the fact that they can't break it open and tinker around inside.

Repairability and user upgradeability are features that only matter to a small fraction of the computer buying population.
I think u didn't get the point here mate. The point is not to force people into Apple’s own repair services. The point is to make them throw away their old iMac and buy a new, shiny, ‘revolutionary’ toy. It's called consumerism. It does not affect only computers. Welcome to the 21st century.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:34 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post

Its like people who buy lets say, a Ferrari 458 over a Corvette ZR1, they both can do about 200mph, they both develop 500+ Horsepower, both can Lap the Ring in about the same amount of time, both are about as fast from 0-60, when it comes to performance, both are exactly the same.

Why do people buy the Ferrari? Looks, and brand name.
Err.....no.

Your argument is flawed. a Ferrari can also go around tight corners a lot better.

The ring' tends to be a high speed ring so not a fair analogy.

And I don't need AppleCare, that's why I pay for home contents insurance.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:39 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by namethisfile View Post
one doesn't hope to open a tv to repair it, nor a ps3. nor an iphone. but for heaven's sake, one expects to open up a desktop like an imac.
Well see that just shows how young you are because my father certainly enjoyed tinkering with our old Zenith TV's. He would change tubes in the chasis and when absolutely necessary he would change out the picture tube. Your kids will be laughing at you about you wanting to open up a desktop computer and tinkering around. New generations of kids will be saying, "What, open up a computer, What....Why???"

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoalwerks View Post
I'm talking about the 2012 base model.
So am I. That's the one they showed with accessible ram door.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:39 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by brock2621 View Post
I can only imagine how painful hanging out on here is.
I ve been lurking for a while here and I thought I might as well register, would it surprise you if I told you that the verge comments section is far more fanboish than these forums? That's my impression at least. (but yeah it can get painful...lol) Here some people at least are critical of apple, and they can put forth a good argument as to why, maybe it's because there must be a lot of much older apple users here I guess. And I am of the opinion apple has been really good lately at alienating their core user base...
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:40 PM   #143
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That is the 27"
Ah, well even though this article is about the 21" most people here are crying as if the entire line was designed that way.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:42 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by flopticalcube View Post
Its not too bad. Its actually adhesive transfer tape according this thread. RAM can be replaced by removing the screen and the fan.
jesus dude, who cares about ram? it's the hard drive that's gonna die on you. If you can't replace the most fail-likely part in the computer, the WHOLE thing is a liability.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:43 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Yamcha View Post
Pretty sure your wrong, the most common upgrades people make is Memory & Hard drives..
They no doubt are the most common upgrades. That doesn't mean that many computer owners upgrade either though. These days the average spec for a computer is way more than most people need, so most people have no real need to upgrade either in the life of their computer.

I'm sure a much higher proportion of more techie people upgrade, but they will be a relatively small proportion of all computer owners.

Having said that I would agree with anyone about Apple neglecting the pro user in the last few years, and if not for me, then for them, would love to see Apple knock it out of the ball park with a new MacPro by the middle of next year.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:44 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by gotluck View Post
What's truly baffling is that people seem to support this and cheer apple on for it.

As a consumer one must be insane, as an investor -sure it's a good thing.
I don't think people here are cheering Apple but more of of the fact that some are saying that customer-serviceable computers are becoming a thing of the past especially when many people including businesses are 100% satisfied with tablet computing.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:47 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Nearly as fast? Thunderbolt is 10Gbit, and SATA III is 6Gbit. If I don't open up my 27" iMac when it arrives, I have the comfort of knowing that when I go away on holiday etc, I can unplug and hide all my information easily in case of a break-in by using an SSD Thunderbolt disk. I think that's pretty nice.
There may be some overhead as well, particularly in the drive adapter. I have seen benchmarks come in slightly slower than SATA III. Its not TBolt per-se but the adapter going from SATA III to TBolt. This will probably disappear in the next generation of drive adapters.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by robeddie View Post
jesus dude, who cares about ram? it's the hard drive that's gonna die on you. If you can't replace the most fail-likely part in the computer, the WHOLE thing is a liability.
Whilst I share your concern for the spinning parts, RAM is a more common upgrade... particularly for what Apple charges. The hard drives usually last 3-4 years, just in time for Applecare to expire.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:51 PM   #148
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Won't be long before ifixit will be out of business.
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 06:56 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by OrangeSVTguy View Post
Won't be long before ifixit will be out of business.
Maybe Apple does this stuff just to piss off iFixit.

Seriously does iFixit tear apart other computer manufacturers stuff as quickly as they do Apple's?
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Old Dec 1, 2012, 07:03 PM   #150
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Err.....no.

Your argument is flawed. a Ferrari can also go around tight corners a lot better.
The ZR1 does the ring in 7:19, the 458 does it in 7:32, not to bad in a 13 miles long track.

Oh yeah, the new 70,000 dollar Z06 does it in 7.22,

And the Dodge Viper ACR does it in 7.12.


SOURCE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

You silly Europeans, thinking you make better cars, but you don't :P Ours are faster in a straight line, faster in a corner, better built, more reliable ( Team Corvette wins so many cup races its just retarded, and European cars rank even worse than American cars in reliabilty tests :P ).

The point is, you could buy a ZR1 for 100,000 dollars, thats faster.....handles better...easier to drive....sounds better.....and will last longer ( Ferrari's are terribly unreliable ), and overall be a better car. Then the 458 for 400,000 dollars.

The point I was making is that with the iMac, you can get a better desktop for WAY less money. And it can be upgradeable.

Why couldn't they have just kept the old form factor?

Or do what HP does?



Why can't the iMac be like that? Isn't Apple about engineering and making the best product possible for the money? So why can't an iMac be easily upgraded?

Its all about looks with Apple these days.
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