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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:09 AM   #26
Switchback666
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
Lossy compression is always a compromise of course. The audio CDs are lower bitrate but they are lossless. But for the practical matters of listening to music, it hardly matters. And digital media are much flexible as far handling, storage and playback goes. This is why I consider than superior in every way. If you consider yourself an audiophile, there is also music to download in lossless digital formats.

BTW, make an experiment. Let people listen to the same track on CD and on 256kbit AAC, using highest quality audio playback hardware you can get. Do it as a proper 2x2 design. You will be surprised.
Hate the word but yeah you can call me "audiophile" (uff hate it). regarding your experiment, you say it yourself regular people

But anyway that is not what the rant from the op is about (i assume).
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:12 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
Lossy compression is always a compromise of course. The audio CDs are lower bitrate but they are lossless. But for the practical matters of listening to music, it hardly matters. And digital media are much flexible as far handling, storage and playback goes. This is why I consider than superior in every way. If you consider yourself an audiophile, there is also music to download in lossless digital formats.

BTW, make an experiment. Let people listen to the same track on CD and on 256kbit AAC, using highest quality audio playback hardware you can get. Do it as a proper 2x2 design. You will be surprised.
Audio CDs are higher bitrate. 1411kbps is the standard.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:34 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by drlipo View Post
I canceled my order for a 2012 iMac 27" because I concluded that, for me, this model is a huge step backwards from my December 2009 iMac 27". The less reflective screen is a definite plus. HOWEVER, the ridiculously thin screen edge required HUGE compromises: 1) SD card slot moved to a difficult to access location on the back 2) elimination of an optical drive. One has the option of purchasing an external optical drive for $70, but in addition to the cost that takes up desktop space and uses up one of the four USB ports 3) whereas the original announcement of the new iMac touted it as having even better sounding audio than the previous iMac, which I was very skeptical about, the early reviews of the new iMac confirm my worst fears -- the bass response is zero, resulting in a tinny sound! 4) while the Fusion drive is a great feature, it is way overpriced for its storage capacity at $250.



I believe the perfect upgrade to the iMac would have been to simply make the screen less reflective and have a more fairly priced Fusion drive, plus the processor and graphic card improvements. The thickness of the box should have stayed the same (already PLENTY thin), thus allowing the SC card reader to remain conveniently on the side, the optical drive to remain and, most importantly, the audio quality should have at lease been maintained, if not improved.

The thin edge of the display and weight reduction are meaningless for a desktop machine. The edge thickness will only be noticed by looking at the computer from the side, but never noticed when actually viewing the screen. Ironically, the ultra thin screen edge required the iMac to bulge out to the rear and the new model may actually be even thicker than the previous model. The lighter weight is not important for a desktop machine. This is not a portable unit! Mine has never been moved from my desktop in three years!

One of the things I love most about my older iMac is the superb audio quality. There is NO WAY I would upgrade to a new model with significantly reduced audio quality, to say nothing about the absent optical drive and hard to reach SC card slot.

When Apple addresses all of these issues, only then will I purchase a new model. Or, I may choose to go back to one of the great new PC's.
Why don't you try to get a job at Apple and help Jonathon Ives out?

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Originally Posted by drlipo View Post
Where were the specs posted that the audio quality on the newest iMac is seriously reduced? In fact, Apple claimed that it was improved and only a published review revealed the truth.

Let me restate my point in order to try to quash all the misplaced flaming I have received.

ALL of the improvements in the newest iMac -- upgraded processor and graphics card, reduced screen reflection, and Fusion drive -- could have been created by Apple at a much lower cost to them by simply keeping the thickness of the device identical to that on the previous model. No one would have grumbled that it was too thick.

That approach would have allowed for the option of an optical drive, conveniently located SD card slot and, most importantly, a great audio response without having to purchase an external speaker system.

Let the flamers try to dispute my last paragraph!
WOW! clearly a great designer thinking of the future.
I agree, I would have settled for a better GPU card and USB 3.0 but the lack of a DVD doesn't bother me- I've been using a La Cie fast writer now for about 2 years and I don't use it very often now- only when someone needs a DVD . Almost everything is on flash drives/ hard drives.
The new machine will be FAST for video editing and moving up from a 2008 model - I just can't wait.
And the price is OK
If you don't want one, just don't buy one, but stop trying to redesign them. What you see is what you get!
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:39 AM   #29
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I was disappointed with the loss of the optical drive in an AIO (not really AIO now) and the placement of the SD Card slot.
However I am happy with the CPU, GPU and Fusion drive upgrades which to me was worth the purchase.

I will miss the ease of the optical drive and I may or may not purchase an external or just change my lifestyle to fit around it, but the new hardware for me justified my purchase.

I figured I'll be using the hardware inside more than the SD slot and the optical drive.

It definitely looks nice being thinner, but personally it wasn't necessary as the last model was thin and still is. I have never heard anyone complain about the thickness of one.
People may say if I don't like change go back to old crap but honestly some things just don't need changing when it doesn't really add a benefit.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:43 AM   #30
leman
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Originally Posted by experimenthouse View Post
Audio CDs are higher bitrate. 1411kbps is the standard.
EDIT: you are right and I am stupid. I misread some stuff, sorry Thats the problem with doing an all-nighter and than trying to think without having a coffee.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 03:56 AM   #31
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I never use the inbuilt optical drive in my iMac. Why? Because if a disc gets stuck in there, I would have to lug my iMac to Apple to get the damn thing out. For that reason, I prefer to use an external device, anyway.

Mechanical components are more prone to failure, so the removal of the optical drive makes more sense from Apple's point of view. The reduction in size and weight of the iMac helps with shipping from China to wherever. All of this helps Apple's bottom line.

Not everything that Apple does is necessarily for the benefit of the consumer.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by drlipo View Post
ALL of the improvements in the newest iMac -- upgraded processor and graphics card, reduced screen reflection, and Fusion drive -- could have been created by Apple at a much lower cost to them by simply keeping the thickness of the device identical to that on the previous model. No one would have grumbled that it was too thick.
That is COMPLETE ********! They've ended up with using much less materials and much less internal components than the previous gen for EACH AND EVERY IMAC. Turn your logic on at last and realize the fact of new iMacs being much economy efficient for Apple than previous gen.

p.s. and btw, this whiny thread is nothing new. I don't know if you noticed, but all the "cons" you've listed (including worse sound suggestions) were discussed over and over here since new iMacs announsement. Which makes me wonder why you've ended up with CANCELLING your order because of these reasons.

----------

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Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
Who uses discs any more? Lots of people. Just because you don't doesn't mean everyone else doesn't.
And again, speak for yourself. I don't know ANY of my countless friends and familiars, who's still using CDs/DVDs.

Last edited by dejo; Dec 3, 2012 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Circumventing profanity filter.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:30 AM   #33
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smh @ this thread...

Why? Just cancel it and go buy a PC. Right? Boom! Done.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:34 AM   #34
maxira
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I do not mind the sound!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eQ0c44wZoI
min. 3:24
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:38 AM   #35
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When the iMac was first announced I thought it looked drop dead gorgeous and it was a case of "I must have one of them!". However, I agree with the OP now that there are simply too many compromises to get those gorgeous looks.
I've now decided to keep my 2010 iMac until it dies and then get either a mini or (if it's not discontinued by then) a Mac Pro
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:46 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by kaellar View Post
That is COMPLETE ********! They've ended up with using much less materials and much less internal components than the previous gen for EACH AND EVERY IMAC. Turn your logic on at last and realize the fact of new iMacs being much economy efficient for Apple than previous gen.

p.s. and btw, this whiny thread is nothing new. I don't know if you noticed, but all the "cons" you've listed (including worse sound suggestions) were discussed over and over here since new iMacs announsement. Which makes me wonder why you've ended up with CANCELLING your order because of these reasons.

----------



And again, speak for yourself. I don't know ANY of my countless friends and familiars, who's still using CDs/DVDs.
Wow countless friends ? You sure about that ?

Anyway your basically saying that its ok for apple to get even more profit if the cost to build is lower ? And no the new design is not cheaper dont know where you got that from.

Btw again speak for yourself, some people still use/like optical drives
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Last edited by dejo; Dec 3, 2012 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 04:46 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by drlipo View Post
1) SD card slot moved to a difficult to access location on the back
2) elimination of an optical drive. One has the option of purchasing an external optical drive for $70, but in addition to the cost that takes up desktop space and uses up one of the four USB ports
3) whereas the original announcement of the new iMac touted it as having even better sounding audio than the previous iMac, which I was very skeptical about, the early reviews of the new iMac confirm my worst fears -- the bass response is zero, resulting in a tinny sound!
4) while the Fusion drive is a great feature, it is way overpriced for its storage capacity at $250.
1. A non issue for the majority of all consumers. Sucks for photographers and alike though.
2. A non issue for the majority of all consumers. Use USB sticks instead. It's way faster and it's a lot more safe for storage than CD/DVD. I honestly don't know anyone in person who still uses CD/DVD's for anything.
3. I don't even know how my old 24" iMac speakers sounds like. If you're interested in sound quality you either a) get a decent headphone amp/dac and a pair of high quality headphones or b) Use AirPlay
4) A non issue for the majority of all consumers. Buy external HDDS if you need more storage.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Switchback666 View Post
Wow countless friends ? You sure about that ?

Anyway your basically saying that its ok for apple to get even more profit if the cost to build is lower ? And no the new design is not cheaper dont know where you got that from.

Btw again speak for yourself, some people still use/like optical drives
I mostly meant countless acquaintances of course. =)
From my pov it's pretty clear that the percentage of those who still use ODs is really small.
And yep, if you won't keep in mind R&D cost new iMac's design is WAY less pricey for Apple. I thought it's pretty obvious.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:22 AM   #39
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I think this site should be renamed MacJustify.com. Basically all I see anyone doing now is justifying their decision to purchase or not purchase a new Apple product. Non-purchasers are the worst offenders and seem determined to start a flame war with every post.

Can we start a petition for the name change?
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by pukingpixels View Post
1. A non issue for the majority of all consumers. Sucks for photographers and alike though.
2. A non issue for the majority of all consumers. Use USB sticks instead. It's way faster and it's a lot more safe for storage than CD/DVD. I honestly don't know anyone in person who still uses CD/DVD's for anything.
3. I don't even know how my old 24" iMac speakers sounds like. If you're interested in sound quality you either a) get a decent headphone amp/dac and a pair of high quality headphones or b) Use AirPlay
4) A non issue for the majority of all consumers. Buy external HDDS if you need more storage.
I still need a CD drive. Not all music is available as a digital download. I also have DVD Audio discs for my stereo system which use discrete inputs for each speaker. The sound is fantastic, not that it is Mac related, but I prefer music with a larger dynamic range.

Agree about speakers or headphones. I would never use my computer's built in speakers except for a video presentation for education.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:34 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
We are not talking about blu ray. And yes, digital sound is better quality than the audio CD. Not necessarily MP3 (which suffer artefacts from the compression rate), but there are other audio formats out there as well. The 256kbps AAC files as offered via iTunes are better quality than an audio CD in every regard.
You can't be serious.......


Cd Quality Audio is 1,411.2kbps bit rate, 16bit depth and 44.1 HZ sample rate.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:35 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by kaellar View Post
I mostly meant countless acquaintances of course. =)
From my pov it's pretty clear that the percentage of those who still use ODs is really small.
And yep, if you won't keep in mind R&D cost new iMac's design is WAY less pricey for Apple. I thought it's pretty obvious.
I dont think so mate, the new design im positive demands different tolerance on building, thinner/sleek demands more.

Acquaintances of course, its just i always like to throw that out might make some people think.

About the % of who uses optical drive its hard to tell, some people are just oldfashion or others just like to burn cds; i personally could care less but doesnt change the fact it bothers other people example my dad when i gave him a mac mini lol he almost refused cause of the no optical drive

----------

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Originally Posted by tears2040 View Post
You can't be serious.......


Cd Quality Audio is 1,411.2kbps bit rate, 16bit depth and 44.1 HZ sample rate.
Mate read all post, he made a mistake.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:38 AM   #43
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What you cancel or not is of course only tailored to your personal need. I donīt need no SD-Card-Reader, have decent speakers, enough money to get the Fusion drive (try getting a 1TB HDD, a SDD and the Software for a kind of fusiondrive for $200+Taxes) and donīt use optical media at all (except DVD-RAM - thereīs an external drive for that.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:44 AM   #44
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Why don't you try to get a job at Apple and help Jonathon Ives out?
Somehow I doubt Jony Ive alone decided whether the iMac was going to have an optical drive or not. My guess is the decision to remove optical drive and the new display process allowed for a thinner design, and since that looks sexier it's what Apple has decided to focus on in their marketing.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:47 AM   #45
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Here are my thoughts :
  • If Apple made 2012 iMac with the same thickness as 2011 iMac, I bet you all will also complain : "it's boring!!"
  • If Apple made 2012 iMac is thicker than 2011 iMac, I bet you all will also complain.. (see what's happen with iPad2 to iPad3)
People always complain no matter what..

For optical drive, I already expected that when I saw mac mini was loosing optical drive to made it thinner.

Actually I expect this new iMac has full SSD as standard, but maybe some of you will complain again : "what?? only 256GB for desktop computer??". So, a bit smart move by Apple to use fusion drive instead which I think it should be a standard not BTO, maybe we will see that in the next iterations..

Anyway, I think this new design will remain for the next 3 years so if you don't really like it, you should search for the alternatives or bear up with your 2009 iMac.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:50 AM   #46
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I would say every Cd burned for audio reference as well as dvd I burn for clients + dvd rentals such as redbox which are well alive, I would say many people use optical disc drives.....

I mean you think downloading .mp3 is the same as a pro audio disc sound? Same with blu ray.....
Does ALAC, FLAC and HQ H.264 not exist? The new iMac can cut through encoding like butter.

And if you're burning from an iMac.... chances are you're not missing much in your source from going to WAV to MP3... just saying.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 05:50 AM   #47
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I am pleased about the CPU options, GPU options and USB 3 on the 27" model. I am not pleased about the storage options, or their prices, and I am most displeased that the most failure-prone part of a computer is still hidden away and is not user-serviceable (and it's not longer just magnets - now it's an industrial adhesive that one has to fight through).

Therefore I am going to vote with my wallet and wait for the Mac Pro, if that ever comes.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:23 AM   #48
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I have a Sony Vaio which is stuffed and Sony told me to literally piss off after constant problems with it since new and umpteen repairs. It cost Ģ2000 when I bought it about 4 years ago, I now have a Macbook pro 17 inch made to order with a matt screen and it is great although the batter life after 8 months is about a couple of hours. instead of the 7 or 8 that is quoted somewhere. I certainly can't recommend Sony products because of the lack of customer relations.

I am buying the new iMac after selling my 2011 model because it now has the less reflective screen. I am saying up the fusion drive as I think a external thunderbolt hdd would be better value and faster. I think the fusion and for that matter the SSD is way over the top price wise, don't forget you pay extra for the fusion and you don't get to keep the one that would have come with the computer as standard.

The 3.4 i7 with 2 gb graphics card is the way to go with the standard hdd. then as said a TB ext hdd would be a better and faster bet. The rest of the machine is fine. Of douse the sound is crap but put an external speaker outfit on it and a whole world opens up.

Look at it as a base to build on.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:45 AM   #49
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I will race out to the shop if they make a iMac with a flash hd drive and retina display like my MacBook Pro. the slim factor may be sexy but I don' t feel comfortable moving from my mid 2010 iMac, with the loss of optical however I am starting to ditch buying dvds of my fav tv shows and am now getting them on iTunes to avoid buying an external drive in the future if they exist that is.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:48 AM   #50
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What I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal about the optical drive ... Yes people still use CDs.. I use CDs and I just bought the SuperDrive for my imac and it delivered before my imac so I got a chance to check it out .. First off the SuperDrive's cost is ridiculous but it's very light and well thin... It would hardly take up any desk space and I don't see there being any problem dragging it out of the desk draw i mean c'mon it's no more the pulling out your phone out of your pocket and hooking up to the computer to charge or sync. Next the whole USB Problem,when was the last time u had all 4 USBs being occupied at one time ...
You're saying the SuperDrive is the same size as an iPhone?

There are only 4 USB ports on the back. If you have any peripherals, each port becomes precious. Of course, if you have a lot of peripherals like I do, one could always get a hub. The point being having to add one more external device (SuperDrive) makes things potentially that bit extra inconvenient.
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