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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:12 PM   #101
fredoviola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I'm sure I could google it, but I'm curious what is laggy? UI? Maybe it's a graphics issue. The rMBP has pretty amazing graphics capabilities so that might be it. I'm just using a USB 3 HD for audio. SSD for system.
For me (and for many users) it occurs when opening a plugin that has dynamic visualization, for example Channel EQ. I am unable to open two and sometimes even one instance of Channel EQ with analyzation enabled without the GUI lagging for anywhere from 10 seconds to 2 minutes. I can hit the space bar, click stop on the screen, try to manipulate application controls - nothing happens. It just keeeeeeps playing. And then it will go through and do all the things I tried all in the course of a split second. It doesn't happen consistently. I have been working on a new track for the couple of weeks. Some days I have tons of lag issues. Some days, none at all. This is the problem Apple are having as well, and why it's taking so long for them to solve the problem - they can't recreate it consistently enough! But apparently it's due to Core Audio issues. I don't really understand what that means, so take that with a big old dose of salt!
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:13 PM   #102
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i would like Mainstage to have the REC button.
After a recording, the ability to open the recording as a Logic project.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:16 PM   #103
fredoviola
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Originally Posted by yiswitched View Post
Boy you can say that again! Apple cares about teenaged hipsters who buy iPhone's not the pro users who kept the bloody company alive during the dark years. I've purchased my last apple hardware product unless the new Mac Pro is priced right and stunning. I have no intention of loosing all my software I've shelled out thousands for, I'll build my own and apple can kiss my $#%!
That just is not true at all. All computer systems are in the awkward phase of moving from non-touch to touch. It's not just Apple. Windows is in there as well. The crew behind Logic Pro are still very passionately behind the software. I was very pleased to find out that at least the one I heard from was working with Logic back when it was owned by Emagic!
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:22 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by AndyDiamond View Post
As far as making a 'kiddie app' - I just got an Axiom A.I.R. Mini 32 and its got an Ignite license - I will be interested to see if Ignite is useful and an alternative to the Garagebands of the world. The Avid/M-Audio dust up is interesting to say the least.
Dude you just helped a fellow man today. I really didn't keep up with NAMM this year and failed to notice the new A.I.R lineup from M-Audio. The 32 key is a MUCH better value to me than the Line 6 Mobile Keys 25 which is 50% more expensive. Ignite looks fun. I think I'll pick it up early next year. Awesome.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:31 PM   #105
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Feature request: I would like to see Apple program managers capitalize their name.

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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:42 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by thestickman View Post
Started using Logic 7 back in 2008. Progressed to 8 & then 9. Everything sounded ok to me till I demoed Studio One 2...to my ears now, Logic 9 sounds very boxy to me. I still write in it & use some of the amp models & instruments. Do my tracking/mixing in either Pro Tools 10 or Studio One. They just sound cleaner to my ear.
Yeah I switched over to Studio One from Logic 8 awhile back. You're not alone
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 06:43 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestickman View Post
Started using Logic 7 back in 2008. Progressed to 8 & then 9. Everything sounded ok to me till I demoed Studio One 2...to my ears now, Logic 9 sounds very boxy to me. I still write in it & use some of the amp models & instruments. Do my tracking/mixing in either Pro Tools 10 or Studio One. They just sound cleaner to my ear.

I figure Apple will want some $$$ for Logic 10. Unless there's a demo to try I'm not playing this time.
That's just a load of bollocks. DAW's aren't consoles, it's 1 and 0's they sound the same. Your brain is telling it sounds different when it doesn't.

Grab a sound file, import it in logic, export it, import it again in pro tools, import it, export it, grab those 2 files import it anywhere, flip the phase on one of them. Boom. Silence.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 07:25 PM   #108
Vaughn Felix
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I can't wait for the new version, hurry hurry hurry… But regardless, I'm still going to make dope freaking music with what I got… Word
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 07:53 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Vaughn Felix View Post
I can't wait for the new version, hurry hurry hurry… But regardless, I'm still going to make dope freaking music with what I got… Word
You make music with Word? ****, I can't even type a letter with that POS.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 08:24 PM   #110
DitteVilladsen
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Notice how Soren didn't actually deny the allegations, which were very specific:

(1) There are only two pro application specialists in Europe.

(2) Apple is not hiring someone to fill a recently vacanted pro applications job.

(3) The remaining people are working mostly on an iPad application, not an OS X application.

The "denial," which is very vague:

(1) The team is still in place [the team of 2? the team in the U.S.?]

(2) They are "hard at work" [on an iPad application? hard at work because of staffing shortages?]

And how Dalrymple only denies the "decimated" part of the claim.

Here's what people want to know:

(1) How many man-weeks per week are spent on OS X pro audio applications? The answer to this will be a number, an integer, not a marketing adjective.

(2) When will the next OS X pro audio application be released? The answer to this will be a date, consisting of a year and a month.

The word "nope" will not figure in any of the answers.

Last edited by DitteVilladsen; Dec 3, 2012 at 08:31 PM.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:02 PM   #111
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Let's hope Apple doesn't screw this one up like they did with iMovie '08. WTF, no timeline???
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:09 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigy View Post
Wouldn't need to contact anyone if Apple published a road map for their pro software products as many other companies do.
Many companies tend to look at Apple to see what they do first. Giving Apples track record of success. Announcing anything too soon gives competitors time to come out with a simular feature, product or service.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:27 PM   #113
realtwang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post
Yeah, I wish they would also indicate they are hard at work on new Mac Pros too.
They did...Tim Cook said earlier this year that they were working on something "really spectacular for our pro customers for 2013"

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredoviola View Post
For me (and for many users) it occurs when opening a plugin that has dynamic visualization, for example Channel EQ. I am unable to open two and sometimes even one instance of Channel EQ with analyzation enabled without the GUI lagging for anywhere from 10 seconds to 2 minutes. I can hit the space bar, click stop on the screen, try to manipulate application controls - nothing happens. It just keeeeeeps playing. And then it will go through and do all the things I tried all in the course of a split second. It doesn't happen consistently. I have been working on a new track for the couple of weeks. Some days I have tons of lag issues. Some days, none at all. This is the problem Apple are having as well, and why it's taking so long for them to solve the problem - they can't recreate it consistently enough! But apparently it's due to Core Audio issues. I don't really understand what that means, so take that with a big old dose of salt!
I can reproduce it very consistently. Here are the steps:

1. Start project playing
2. Open either Apple's Channel EQ (with Analyzer on) or Multimeter plug ins
3. Program stops responding until it's damned good and ready to stop.

Things I've discovered about the problem:

• It's definitely tied to any plug with moving graphics (analyzers, needles, meters, etc.)
• You can override it momentarily by attempting to stop it with a remote app...although it just stops for a second or so, then Logic takes back over and keeps on playing
• The problem is worse when I have my Apple LED external display plugged in, although it still does occur without it - it just doesn't keep playing as long. This tells me it's definitely tied to how Logic is handling graphics in relation to plugins. I'm running a Mid 2011 Macbook Pro with dual graphics chips (Intel integrated and AMD Radeon HD 6750M 1024 MB).
• It doesn't seem to matter whether automatic graphics switching is enabled or disabled.
• I, unlike some, did not have the problem in Lion - only since switching to Mountain Lion.

Last edited by realtwang; Dec 3, 2012 at 09:35 PM.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:42 PM   #114
AndyDiamond
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"Apple ignores the pro user"

It's a given lots of pros have used Macs over the years - for audio, video, graphics etc but 'pros' are way outnumbered by non-pros. If Apple had simply catered to pros the company would not exist today. The market is too small to sustain pros in an age where digital tech enables anyone to create content. Of course the quality of that content is a whole other debate...

Apple has 'succeeded' in staying alive by making products that sell a bunch - those products are still used by pros of course but the majority are everyday consumers.

I have been a pro user since the early 90s - graphics, audio and video.
I don't particularly feel shortchanged by Apple - I've been able to continue to do 'pro' work on both hardware and software. I'm not really interested in using a G3 and OS 8 to get my work done thanks. Logic works, Pro Tools works, Photoshop works, FCP works - my computers work. Downtime is minimal - hardware issues are virtually nil. Sure, as a pro user I can do pretty good trouble-shooting SW/HW too but overall people whining about pro users being treated like crap by Apple gets boring!
Get a Sun workstation FFS - they 'care' about 'pros' lol
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:53 PM   #115
AndyDiamond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Dude you just helped a fellow man today. I really didn't keep up with NAMM this year and failed to notice the new A.I.R lineup from M-Audio. The 32 key is a MUCH better value to me than the Line 6 Mobile Keys 25 which is 50% more expensive. Ignite looks fun. I think I'll pick it up early next year. Awesome.

no problem man - if you are looking for the larger 25/48/61 key A.I.R. controllers they don't hit until 2013.

Initially this was part of AVID but M-Audio/A.I.R. were bought from AVID by a company called In Music who also do Akai and other stuff. The box my Mini32 came in still has AVID branding but the keyboard itself does not (original versions did have the AVID logo).

“By acquiring the AIR Software Group and M-Audio, we’re not only broadening but also
deepening our commitment to the future of music creation and production,” said Jack
O’Donnell, owner and CEO, inMusic. “All of our brands are technology leaders, and they
all have tremendous market momentum. With the addition of AIR and M-Audio, we’re in
an even better position to push the boundaries of computer-based composition, production, and performance. Naturally this will be very positive for musicians, who will
get better software, better hardware, and a much more integrated music-making
experience as a result.”

The acquisitions also signal a new relationship with Avid. The AIR Software Group will
continue to develop and maintain technologies for the Avid Pro Tools family of digital
audio workstations, and a number of M-Audio products will continue to include Pro Tools
software. Select Akai Professional and Alesis products will also now include Pro Tools,
bringing the leading professional production software to a whole new audience of
musicians, producers, and engineers.


I needed a keyboard that was small and had controllers - the mini keys are quite wide apart - velocity sensitive (no aftertouch etc).
For $99 (US) it's worth a shot and the fact it integrates out of the box with ProTools is pretty cool. No MIDI learn needed in a lot of cases.
I had it with Novation Automap quite frankly.

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/air-users-blog/

and
http://youtu.be/uO3WVcchoHE

sorry this is a Logic thread but things happen!
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Last edited by AndyDiamond; Dec 3, 2012 at 09:59 PM.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 10:30 PM   #116
Rufuss Sewell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sptz View Post
That's just a load of bollocks. DAW's aren't consoles, it's 1 and 0's they sound the same. Your brain is telling it sounds different when it doesn't.

Grab a sound file, import it in logic, export it, import it again in pro tools, import it, export it, grab those 2 files import it anywhere, flip the phase on one of them. Boom. Silence.
You are wrong.

If the sole feature of a DAW were to import a single file and bounce it you would be correct.

Fortunately DAWs are much more than that.

They come with EQs and effects that sound different from one another.

They deal with latency and delay compensation differently which can cause boxy phasiness.

They have vastly different ways of editing and time stretching.

They have different pan laws which can affect imagery when mixing.

DAWs look and act differently which can make you perform or edit differently... alter your mood etc.

The "null test" argument is idiotic as it focuses on the one completely useless aspect of a DAW that happens to be the same. There are many many aspects of a DAW that will result in vastly different mixes.

I happen to prefer the sound of music I produce in Logic. I actually think PT is too clean and I prefer the muddier, dirtier... more rockin sound of Logic.

To me:
Logic = Rock
PT = Electronic

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtwang View Post
They did...Tim Cook said earlier this year that they were working on something "really spectacular for our pro customers for 2013"

----------



I can reproduce it very consistently. Here are the steps:

1. Start project playing
2. Open either Apple's Channel EQ (with Analyzer on) or Multimeter plug ins
3. Program stops responding until it's damned good and ready to stop.
I can confirm that this doesn't happen with a 15" rMBP running 10.8.2 and latest L9.

I moved several channel EQs with anylizer on to my external monitor as well.

I feel for those with the problem!
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 10:40 PM   #117
Aluminum213
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Sad truth is the amount of revenue Apple makes from Mac Pro and logic must be microscopic in the grand scheme so it's dead last on their to-do list

And all the people complaining FOR YEARS about these 2 things still haven't moved on to their competitors so they're just laughing at how they got their loyal customers by the balls
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 10:51 PM   #118
thestickman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sptz View Post
That's just a load of bollocks. DAW's aren't consoles, it's 1 and 0's they sound the same. Your brain is telling it sounds different when it doesn't.

Grab a sound file, import it in logic, export it, import it again in pro tools, import it, export it, grab those 2 files import it anywhere, flip the phase on one of them. Boom. Silence.
You hear what my ears hear? When you do lemme know. 0's & 1's don't hear at all do they?
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:25 PM   #119
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I've been using a wonderful DAW in place of Logic Pro called REAPER. It's shareware, so it's basically free, but it's incredibly powerful. It can do everything I ever did with Logic, and much more. Plus the community and amount of available documentation for it is fantastic. It's also really light. A fresh installation only chews up about 30 MB of memory at any given time. 64bit support, and it's frequently being updated and developed. I love the thing. So if anyone else is sick of waiting for Logic Pro 10, like I was, try REAPER.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:28 PM   #120
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Reaper

Just can't get into its UI

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Old Dec 3, 2012, 11:44 PM   #121
LogicRumours
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Originally Posted by Aluminum213 View Post
Sad truth is the amount of revenue Apple makes from Mac Pro and logic must be microscopic in the grand scheme so it's dead last on their to-do list

And all the people complaining FOR YEARS about these 2 things still haven't moved on to their competitors so they're just laughing at how they got their loyal customers by the balls
Whilst they don't make as much for the software, they make ridiculous amounts from the hardware that users need to buy in order to run Logic...or the new Logic X

The new Mac Pros won't be cheap too which will add to Apple's profit margin
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:30 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by DavidTheExpert View Post
I've been using a wonderful DAW in place of Logic Pro called REAPER. It's shareware, so it's basically free, but it's incredibly powerful. It can do everything I ever did with Logic, and much more. Plus the community and amount of available documentation for it is fantastic. It's also really light. A fresh installation only chews up about 30 MB of memory at any given time. 64bit support, and it's frequently being updated and developed. I love the thing. So if anyone else is sick of waiting for Logic Pro 10, like I was, try REAPER.
Reaper is not basically free. It costs $60 for those who don't make money with it and $225 for those who do. So if you do make money with your DAW Logic is less expensive.

Studio one Professional can be had for not much more when there is a sale going on. I picked up Studio One Producer for $99 just recently. I might even buy Logic X when it's available. I checked out Reaper a while back. It looked pretty ugly and confusing to me but that was my impression.

I bought DP6 a few years ago and I thought it's GUI basically sucked also. A real convoluted mess of bloatware. Many people love it though!
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:43 AM   #123
Jessica Lares
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I prefer Pro Tools myself, but I like that with Logic you don't have to have a bunch of dongles and a box hanging out of your machine. Will be looking forward to the new version.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:18 AM   #124
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Although not a user of Logic, it's good to know that Apple is still committed to its pro apps (I do use FCP, so this is a general view of where the company is heading).
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:28 AM   #125
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I am SOOOO looking forward to seeing what they have up their sleeves with this update. My bet is that it will be released around the time of the Mac Pro refresh(or replacement).
I second it.
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