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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:41 AM   #126
Freeks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebbeus View Post
Logic X has been a long time coming. would like much improved audio editing and i hope they're implementing ipad integration for touch interface.
Logic has native support for TouchOSC iPad controller and it works great! No need to do any setups or anything it just works!
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 03:07 AM   #127
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Been using Logic since L8. An update is sorely needed. I started with Pro Tools, tried Logic and never looked back. I also tried Reaper, great functionality and very customizable, but is not as intuitive as Logic. Using L9 on mid-2012 non-retina MBP on Lion. It had issues when I first installed it and it had trouble recognizing Duet 1 firewire. To fix this issue whenever I start up, I hold down the power button until the indicator lights flash. Did the trick. Not sure if this is a problem due to Lion. L9 was fantastic on Snow Leopard. I won't upgrade to ML until the newest version of Logic as I've heard many cases where compatibility issues arose.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 03:22 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomish69 View Post
It is a def problem, you can't be using any Waves plugins & 10.8.2, I'm not sure of other plugs affected, but anyone opening several Waves plugins at once find the whole program grinds to a halt or doesn't respond to mouse of keyboard clicks.
And when did Waves say they'd have their product fixed when you reported this issue to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sptz View Post
Grab a sound file, import it in logic, export it, import it again in pro tools, import it, export it, grab those 2 files import it anywhere, flip the phase on one of them. Boom. Silence.
Please stop destroying the esoteric aspects of this thread with facts. Thanks.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 03:41 AM   #129
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Ooopps

Interesting way of wording the reply to the original email, basically he was saying the Logic team are still in place at the moment, but who bets that this is the last pro version? I would bet a lot of money this is the last one and it will be dumbed down dramatically. Logic ProX anyone?
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 05:50 AM   #130
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Kids aren't growing up with Logic or Tools anymore, they're using Live and controllers. If has any connection to the current music production market they will fully exploit the pitching / flexing / variable time stretching tools they introduced in L9. They need an Ableton Live' killer just like Logic 7 was the start of the 'Pro Tools' killer.
Please don't be too GarageBand and please don't be to acoustic / American oriented.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 06:47 AM   #131
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Apple has the most inane marketing scheme. I have no idea what their criteria are for putting software on the Mac
App Store vs the web (http://store.apple.com).

Here is what I find at the U.S. web store:
QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component for Windows $19.99
QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component for Mac OS X $19.99
QuickTime 7 Pro for Windows $29.99
QuickTime 7 Pro for Mac OS X $29.99
Logic Studio $499.00

This means a range of $20-500.

At the Mac App Store, I see...
Logic Pro $199.99
Final Cut Pro $299.99
as well as plenty of apps that sell for $0.99 or are free.

Now I just wish the general public could easily understand this differentiation. Why should they have to look at two different places to buy Apple's software? I know how it is differentiated (web store only has software that will run in OS 10.6.5 or earlier), but the general public hasn't a clue, and that makes it a marketing snafu.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 06:56 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Poisednoise View Post
Try the OED. Although it should be admitted that the true meaning, that is, to reduce by 10%, from the Roman punishment, is not the solely acceptable meaning any more.
Only through repeated misuse.

Fowler (author of the King's English) reluctantly states that while it would be acceptable to use 'decimate' in the sense of the majority of a town being wiped out by the plague, he berates the latitude taken with this expression when applied to the virtual extermination of the British rabbit population by myxomatosis.

So you can image his dislike of "Hotly pursued by a scalp-hunter, Dick turned in his saddle, fired and literally decimated his opponent."
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:02 AM   #133
Shaun, UK
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In the main I prefer to use Apple pro software but in all honesty I have zero confidence in their desire to stay in that market. They can't even be bothered to update their consumer software iLife and iWork so I don't hold out much hope for the future of their Pro software. Everyone I know is slowly migrating away from Apple software.

The best thing would be for Apple to spin off their software business into a separate company or merge it will Filemaker and give it the autonomy to put in the resources needed.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:25 AM   #134
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Anyone know this Xander gentleman's email? A PM would be fine. If he wants to hear from users...
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:31 AM   #135
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Logic Pro is the last app left for Apple to dumb down. Hopefully they won't, but they probably will.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 08:52 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebbeus View Post
Logic X has been a long time coming. would like much improved audio editing and i hope they're implementing ipad integration for touch interface.
I would hope that the next version doesn't come out looking and acting like FCPX. For what it's worth it's a decent NLE, but a professional Avid/Adobe competitor it is not.

Anything on top of what they've already done would be an improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin View Post
Last time they were "hard at work" for a long time we ended up with the Final Cut Pro X debacle... Let's hope things turn out a little better this time.
Agreed!
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:06 AM   #137
lebbeus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
The last thing Logic needs is an iPhone/iPad kiddie interface (like they're advertising the iPad with that piano commercial playing something stupid like Chopsticks). This isn't Rockband or Guitar Hero for goodness sake.
I was more thinking of a multitouch mixing console. It would definitely be a better experience than mouse clicking individual faders or drawing automation.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeks View Post
Logic has native support for TouchOSC iPad controller and it works great! No need to do any setups or anything it just works!
I've been using Lemur with MAX but i've not looked at TouchOSC yet. I'll have a peep thanks=]
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:17 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by urbanlung View Post
I knew it wasn't the banks or our mendacious leaders that caused the current economic crisis, it was the lack of updates for Logic Pro.
I said one of, not sole. And it IS a worthwhile thing to consider. Google "Are More Productive Workers Hurting U.S. Jobs" if you're inclined to put aside the condescending tone for a moment...
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:48 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by mus0r View Post
Anyone know this Xander gentleman's email? A PM would be fine. If he wants to hear from users...
Apple has a feedback page.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Pragmatically I suspect most of the traffic routed to execss ("Help steve ..... blah blah blah) get re-funneled back into the system that distributes these.

By several reports Apple product manager are required to read content from the feedback system on a regular basis.

What Apple doesn't want to hear is "backseat drivers" and "monday morning quarterbacks" . That's really not feedback.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:17 AM   #140
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iWork?

Is Apple EVER going to update iWork?
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:18 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DitteVilladsen View Post
Notice how Soren didn't actually deny the allegations, which were very specific:

(1) There are only two pro application specialists in Europe.
It is you that is not specific. As noted in the update to this thread this isn't about developers it is about sales support people. (emphasis mine below):

"... his original report said nothing about Apple's development work on Logic and addressed only the specialist team that assists professional users with using the software tools. ... "


Quote:
(2) Apple is not hiring someone to fill a recently vacanted pro applications job.
It is a sales support job. Labeling it "pro applications" is not specific.


Quote:
(3) The remaining people are working mostly on an iPad application, not an OS X application.
It was a sales support job. There are probably zero folks working on sales support for the iPad apps. So there is no "advantage" the iPad apps have here.

Quote:
The "denial," which is very vague:

(1) The team is still in place [the team of 2? the team in the U.S.?]
The folks who make the apps are still in place. That's highly accurate because even the original report was not even talking about the dev team.

Quote:
Here's what people want to know:

(1) How many man-weeks per week are spent on OS X pro audio applications? The answer to this will be a number, an integer, not a marketing adjective.
LOL. No one is going to generally tell folks that for any substantive software project.

A simple question of whether they are working on a follow up to Logic 9 on OS X is a sufficient question without getting into the weeds of trying to scope out their low level, weekly tactical development plan.

Quote:
(2) When will the next OS X pro audio application be released? The answer to this will be a date, consisting of a year and a month.
ROTFLMAO. First, you are eyeball deep in their weekly development plan and now looking for super high precision on release.... How about when it is ready? And nevermind Apple's corporate policy is not to talk about future release dates and products.

When the bug count is sufficiently low enough and there are no "show stopper" bugs then they will figure out a release date. Maybe they are at the end of the tunnel and maybe not. Throwing a hissy fit and demanding some date isn't going to create a viable one.


P.S. It is not really surprising Apple is letting good of the "high touch, Cadillac" sales support folks. For $2,000-8,000/seat software that makes sense. For $199 software it really doesn't. If folks like it and find it useful they'll buy it. If buying 4-5 seats and it was going to be a double digit thousand dollar purchase then the sales process gets long and protracted. The prices now are no where near where the purchasing decision is "high drama".

Between the feedback mechanism Apple already has ( apple.com/feedback , support forums , trainers/edu offerings by 3rd parties , long time customers , etc. ) it isn't like they aren't going to hear from customers.

The same thing happened on the FCP side. The "in house" professionals were let go. Pragmatically since these folks just serve as liasons they really aren't in the business. Over time they effectively become a "in house" focus group. Apple really doesn't do focus groups. Nor with 10's of thousand customers for the software, are really lacking for customer feedback or identifiable significant candidates to pro-actively talk to.

Last edited by deconstruct60; Dec 4, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:33 AM   #142
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Maybe its best if Apple writes an open letter.

Then again.... every letter they wrote was more marketing and not so much the truth.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:43 AM   #143
NOV
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Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
As for an iPad/iPhone interface... I'm not sure why this wasn't offered in 2007. It's a no brainer that would make Logic users buy iDevices, and iDevice users buy Logic.

TouchOSC and the others are pretty great, but Apple should make a perfectly integrated solution.

Just turn it on and everything has two way communication. Even audio.

Imagine editing on the livingroom couch or dinner table with headphones while your Mac Pro is providing the horsepower.

Also innovative touch screen editing that can't be done with a mouse. Bring it on!!!
Personally I have worked with TouchOSC but since iPad 3 it's broken, it has too much lag between command and action. Strangely enough on iPad 1 it works better. Also inconsistencies with some buttons not working in certain circumstances (fast forward, rewind).

The best alternative for me is to use a MacBook Air with SSD (quiet) and then connect to MacPro through screen sharing.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:50 AM   #144
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I'm actually glad Logic Pro X is taking so long

The problem has been, if you're a Logic Pro user and a Final Cut Pro 7 user presumably you'd expect the two to integrate like peanut butter & jelly.

That was never the case. It was obvious that the lineage between the two was vastly different. Logic Pro wasn't always the ideal audio DAW for a Final Cut Pro station.

What I suspect we'll see is what Apple has done with Final Cut Pro X and Motion. Both share the same graphics pipeline finally bringing the type of integration that people expect from application that come from the same company.

I suspect that the LPX UI won't change drastically but smaller buttons will give way towards more "touchable" targets. I should be able to edit multiple tracks of audio in FCPX and then fire up LPX for more extensive work. I will never have to do an import/export dance. FCPX will know and apply all of my edits.

Yes Apple has taken a long time with their software and I understand this because when you have a new OS every 18 months you've got to let the OS gain some penetration before you start delivering applications with support for the newest frameworks and API. Next year we'll see some stuff that leverages Mountain Lion and if you look closely you'll find some things that hint towards 10.9 and beyond.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:52 AM   #145
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Maybe interesting for those that want touch control with their software.

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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:13 PM   #146
floobie
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Maybe I just don't get it, but having recently finished my first album with Logic Pro (all solo), I'm hard pressed to think of anything Logic Pro 'needs' added to other than perhaps more default software synth patches and guitar processing defaults (most included settings kind of suck and need a lot of fiddling to make them sound really good) and a better WAV editor and perhaps some mastering tools to make volume matching, etc. a bit easier for separate projects. I thought Logic was awesome, personally. I got professional results with total ease, really. And unlike the older Final Cut Pro, Logic actually used both my cores for processing on my MBP. Now I've got a quad-core Mini i7 I could use for editing and it would simply own for sheer processing DSP and more tracks at once.

I'd be more afraid of a "Logic Pro X" kind of thing that mirrors the Final Cut X thing (i.e. more "Garage Band" kiddie features and wiping out all the power tools it already has in the process of some dopey GUI make-over that it does NOT need). Logic Pro is already incredibly easy to use and I'm sure I haven't realized half the things that COULD be done with it if I knew about every little editing tool/button or had some mixing boards to interface to it, etc.

The last thing Logic needs is an iPhone/iPad kiddie interface (like they're advertising the iPad with that piano commercial playing something stupid like Chopsticks). This isn't Rockband or Guitar Hero for goodness sake.
I agree with this generally. I'd love to be able to say I've finished my first album with Logic... time has been far too lacking... but, upon picking up Logic Pro last year, the interface itself took me about 2 days to get a hang of. For a pro application, that's quite a feat. The things I've been struggling with have nothing to do with Logic itself... my knowledge of audio engineering and mixing in general is the bottle-neck. And my technical ability with my instruments :P

I'd like to see a new version of Logic for sure. There are definitely things that could be improved and cleaned up. Performance, while good, could always be optimized. Some parts of the interface feel a bit clunky to me (wave editing, flex time... anything that requires a decent amount of zooming in on a waveform). The ability to easily group tracks would also be very nice. But, as far as I'm concerned, Apple can take its time to get it right. What I have now in Logic Pro 9 already works wonderfully.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:26 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by nilk View Post
It blows my mind that a popular "pro" app like Logic has the problem that you can't do undo settings in instruments/plugins (it instead undoes whatever your last action was that was not in an instrument/plugin, which is often not what I meant to do). I used Logic for a while until I started to get more into sound design, then quickly got very annoyed that it made experimenting so difficult (I'd workaround this by saving, and then restoring from the saved project if my experimentation didn't work out, but that got old quickly). It's surprising that so many people are willing to put up with that, and that I don't hear this complaint often.
Oh this annoys the crap out of me, don't you doubt.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:51 PM   #148
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Oh this annoys the crap out of me, don't you doubt.
Hmm, there is a "Compare" button which goes back to the previous setting. Working over 18 yrs with Logic, it never bothered me in any way.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:58 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin View Post
Last time they were "hard at work" for a long time we ended up with the Final Cut Pro X debacle... Let's hope things turn out a little better this time.
Logic Pro already a re-write in itself, IIRC it was model used to structure the transition to FCPX.

Regardless, I'd rather see Apple release an update to address the UI lag that is still wrecking my ability to do anything at speed, the 9.1.8 update that was supposed to fix it did nothing.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:58 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Craigy View Post
Wouldn't need to contact anyone if Apple published a road map for their pro software products as many other companies do.
What companies actually do that? NewTek had a massive disaster in their attempt at doing that. That's the only one I can think of actually offering a "roadmap." No one else does that I'm aware of. Secrecy is the norm. Why do you think it's otherwise?
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