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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:13 AM   #26
deconstruct60
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
As per the article: "there has been speculation that Apple recently structured component prepayment and equipment deals worth as much as $2 billion to help shore up Sharp's financial situation."
Pre-paying means that Apple is just paying for products. Eventually Sharp has to deliver those products. That will cost Sharp money and Sharp has to allocate almost all of that money to that specific product delivery . I'm extremely sure that in paying a very large amount in advance that Apple is getting a relatively high discount on the products. If Apple hammered them for the maximum feasilble discount then it really not an investment at all. That means Sharp won't make much profit at all off the screens Apple takes in trade. Without profits, Sharp isn't viable over the long term.

An investment of cash can be allocated to whatever is the major problem ( debt/bond repayment , downsizing buyouts , new equipment , etc. ). There is a deep, fundamental difference between those two.


Apple's money helps Sharp keeps the lights on and factories running for now, but it is not an investment. Hopefully, Sharp can round up some other customers that will pay a bit more for screens so that the company survives long term.


Apple's pre-payment does help Sharp. It paves the way for Sharp to make a more flexible deal like this one with Qualcomm. (although I suspect Qualcomm is going to walk away with some highly discounted royalty agreements out of this. )

When you buy an iTunes gift card you are not "Investing" in Apple. Apple pre-paying for product is just a huge "gift card" for another part of Apple.

Last edited by deconstruct60; Dec 4, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:15 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Jimrod View Post
If they're responsible for the pissy yellow display on my iPhone 5 (and many other people's) then I hope they do go under... I expect LG are the ones responsible though as my Plasma from them had a similar tint - the difference being I could calibrate that and I can't on my phone.

And no, it's not just "warmer" or the glue setting, it's 2 months old been used plenty and measures 81% Red, 106% Green, 92% Blue. So much for the quality and colour depth being a big selling point, the colours can be as deep as the ocean but if they're wrong it's pretty redundant. :\
Quit complaining and take it to the Apple Store.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skoopman View Post
Because American companies never ever steal or copy anything. I hope IGZO is really the future and SHARP can be saved. They have great displays and I would love to see one of them in the MacBooks.
Yes, the more competition/diversity out there, the better for the consumer.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Apple recently structured component prepayment and equipment deals worth as much as $2 billion to help shore up Sharp's financial situation.
Wow! 2 Billion in pre-orders, that's pretty amazing. That small team working on the IGZO touch screen displays should get a big raise. They literally saved the SONY company.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:21 AM   #30
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In the 90's Sharp has pulled a "Samsung" and copied the Newton, so I don't think Apple would be better off with them.

The copying thing seems to be so rampant in the far east, that to them it's good business to just copy a successful product and stick their logo on it.
Ehm, that's simply not true.

Sharp actually built parts for Apple's Newton message pad, and the ones they sold were under an official licence from Apple.


Last edited by Casiotone; Dec 4, 2012 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Added image
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:21 AM   #31
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No no no. A couple weeks back it was made known that apple had invested millions if not 1 or 2 billion in sharp. This is the second investment by another company for sharp recently.
It was a rumor, not a fact...
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:23 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Pre-paying means that Apple is just paying for products. Eventually Sharp has to deliver those products. That will cost Sharp money and Sharp has to allocate almost all of that money to that specific product delivery .
It's still a risk to Apple if they paid earlier than expected; if nothing else, a loss of interest from holding it in their own accounts. Found a news story that Sharp has a massive amount of bonds coming due next year, over $2b. (to pay back) Timing of cash can be very useful.

The allocation angle may not mean that much. Yes, they have to fulfill the orders, and it will take a lot of cash to fill an Apple-sized order. But it's not like a restricted donation to a non-profit, where they absolutely cannot touch that cash except for the stated purpose.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:24 AM   #33
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This is a good example of laissez-faire at work. Let business take care of business. If a company such as Sharp is deemed to be worth keeping around, there's no need for government intervention if it's ailing.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:29 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by NewtonAurelius View Post
I keep hearing about how impressive these IGZO displays are, but I do not think I have seen one in person. Is there any way for me to see what one of these IGZO displays looks like?
yes, get your hand on a Sharp SHT21 tablet or SH-02E smartphone which are launching in Japan this month.

http://en.akihabaranews.com/121354/p...irday-in-japan

Quote:
It is now official, Sharp gorgeous Aquos PAS SHT21, a 7″ (1280×800) Android 4.0 LTE Waterproof Smartphone featuring Sharp stunning IGZO screen and a 1.5GHZ Dual Core CPU will ne put on sell this Friday 7th December in Japan through any KDDI Store
http://easternmorningherald.com/shar...japan/1222796/

Quote:
This smartphone is one of the first devices to leverage the indium gallium zinc oxide LCD technology that could promise some power savings over competing technologies while giving high image quality. In the Aquos Phone Zeta, Sharp used a 4.9-inch IGZO panel with a 1280 x 720 pixel resolution.


----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcfmullen View Post
Quit complaining and take it to the Apple Store.
I second that. if it is a manufacturing defect, why wouldn't you return the device and a device instead of complaining it here? It is not like the first Apple device that is defective and need replacement..
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:30 AM   #35
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People keep saying competition is good when other companies are competing with Apple. The same people then say that competition is terrible when it's between Samsung and Sharp (They don't care about a monopoly. They just want Samsung displays). Make up your mind .
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by camnchar View Post
Hopefully this + Apple's investments will ensure Sharp's continued existence, so we don't have to hear about its "dire financial straits" every time we read an article about it.

Reminds me of Apple in the 90s.
There is no Apple investment. It is just supplier financing, just an advance for the products Sharp is going to supply.

Apple will never invest in a sinking ship.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:34 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
In the 90's Sharp has pulled a "Samsung" and copied the Newton, so I don't think Apple would be better off with them.

The copying thing seems to be so rampant in the far east, that to them it's good business to just copy a successful product and stick their logo on it.
Japan is not far east in the way you mean it.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:46 AM   #38
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I always liked sharp screens. I had contact with 2 phones (blackberry 9700) one using the sharp lcd and one using a samsung one, and I liked the sharp screen better both in terms of colors and I didn't see those scan lines that many phones have that you see when you tilt the phone.
Let's hope that sharp survives.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:53 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Skoopman View Post
Because American companies never ever steal or copy anything. I hope IGZO is really the future and SHARP can be saved. They have great displays and I would love to see one of them in the MacBooks.
Apple does not copy a device from A to Z, these guys pulled a Samsung and copied everything down to the buttons, screen size, UI, etc. There's a difference between taking several poorly implemented ideas, improving them and creating a brand new product, rather than ripping off the exact same thing and sticking your logo on it.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:09 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by iphoneclassic View Post
There is no Apple investment. It is just supplier financing, just an advance for the products Sharp is going to supply.

Apple will never invest in a sinking ship.
Maybe so, but with over $100b in cash to invest, we don't know the half of what Apple does with all of that money.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:21 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
Apple does not copy a device from A to Z, these guys pulled a Samsung and copied everything down to the buttons, screen size, UI, etc. There's a difference between taking several poorly implemented ideas, improving them and creating a brand new product, rather than ripping off the exact same thing and sticking your logo on it.
Maybe, but your original premise was that Sharp copied the Newton, which I demonstrated not to be true. They were a partner and official licensee of the Newton OS.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:29 PM   #42
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It's still a risk to Apple if they paid earlier than expected; if nothing else, a loss of interest from holding it in their own accounts.
Not. First the risk is only if they don't get the screens they paid for. If the money alloted is enough to pay for the screens then that risk is minimal. It is in the range of some Tsunami coming along and destroying the plant and/or materials. That is a background risk that Apple would have been taking signing a screen supplier anyway.

Second the return is probably higher than interest. Highly low risk bonds ( e.g. ,US Treasuries ) pay like 1-2%. If paying in advance Apple gets an additional 3% discount that is already a higher return that the low risk bonds. If they get an additional 1-2% discount then the return is the exactly the same.

Even if Sharp filed for bankruptcy the process would take many months. In those months Apple would get the screens it paid for. The bigger the bankrupcy the longer, more protrated the process usally is. Again the risk here is extremely minimum and no way substantively different than the normal risks of doing business.





Quote:
Found a news story that Sharp has a massive amount of bonds coming due next year, over $2b. (to pay back) Timing of cash can be very useful.
It is useful in composing the narrative about why some investment bank should do another $2b bond deal to "roll over" that maturing $2b bond. That's what is most likely going to happen. Practically none if any of Apple's money is going to go into rolling over that debt.

It does present that Sharp has some happy customers and if they continue to deliver and not shoot themselves in the foot, then they probably can pay off the rolled over debt in the future. That's all it really does. There is no "investment" aspects to this.

Quote:
But it's not like a restricted donation to a non-profit, where they absolutely cannot touch that cash except for the stated purpose.
B.S. They can't if they are respectable, professional business follks. Apple's prepayment likely comes as a contract. They have to deliver the goods. If Apple is buying screens over a multi-year basis then maybe they could pay "fast and loose" with the fraction that didn't need to be outlay for a relatively very long time, but I doubt Apple's pre-payment goes for that long.

Sharp is so weak that their suppliers aren't going to give them components on credit. Ship now pay later. So they have cash on delivery or cash before delivery issues with their suppliers. There is no reasonable way to run off and spend the money Apple gave them on something else hoping that someway, somehow something else hits to lotto to re-pay that. (e.g., anything substantive to paying down that $2b in bonds and backfill on phone sales profits. )

Second, it may not be totally in the form of pre-payment for the screens. There may be capital equipment Sharp needs to make the screens. Apple buys it and then lend-lease the equipment to Sharp. If Sharp tanks Apple still owns the equipment. It isn't an assest that will be trapped in bankruptcy. This is same issue as Sharp not having good supplier issues. Apple does the payments with the suppliers. Sharp pays Apple back by using supplies & equipment to make screens.

Frankly, if any bankers/investors finds out that Sharp is using Apple's money as a "Rob Peter to pay Paul" scheme Sharp's chance to roll over their bond debt is dismal. The first thing their auditors are going to look at in their books is whether Apple's money is earnmarked to deliver on Apple's goods. [ That is if their auditors had any brains..... Gotta wonder what brainless clods HP hired to look at Automony's books. ]

Last edited by deconstruct60; Dec 4, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:51 PM   #43
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They really won't look much different than today's displays. The calling card of IGZO is low power usage and good sensitivity for touch screens. This puts it smack dab in the middle. Better than amorphous silicon (the low cost standard) in power and under the more expensive LTPS (low temperature polysilicon) the iPhone choice in display.
Okay, thank you, that helps clears some things up for me.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Not.

B.S.
There's a lot of "if" in your rebuttal, way too many to use these words. How about we speak (type) like grownups?

Not going to bother any more.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:14 PM   #45
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Wow. Even with $2,120,000,000 in aid from just two customers Sharp is described as "in dire financial straits." That's a pretty big hurt.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:32 PM   #46
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what about apple ?
Sharp could a good alternative to LG's displays to avoid some problems like the white stains on some iMac models
I think that's more likely caused by your extracurricular activities in front of your computer.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:50 PM   #47
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Why not just take it back and get a replacement
whining and complaining is much easier.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 01:58 PM   #48
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Wow. Even with $2,120,000,000 in aid from just two customers Sharp is described as "in dire financial straits." That's a pretty big hurt.
They also got banks to agree to loan them $4b more this year. Considering they had ~$7b short and ~$7b long term debt at last FYE already....

I'm using today's exchange rates, don't know if they were much different months ago.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:21 PM   #49
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Apple has to at some point, just push more money from their bank accounts into helping get new tech to the market. It's cool, we get it, they can tout a retina samsung or lg screen, and due to their marketing machine and the hipster fans, appropriate it as some kind of their technological advance.

But now that samsung has showed them the finder, and rightly so after apple's litigation machine went after them, all we have are 3 year old lg panels in the new imacs, and lg panels with rampant image retention problems on the retina macbook pro (actually there's probably not a single lg panel without image retention), to which of course apple has replied that it's "natural" for lcd displays... as if somehow all of a sudden lcds became plasma screens or crt's...but in apple's world they did apparently as a less than perfect way to avoid another -gate, the retention-gate...
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:34 PM   #50
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Ehm, that's simply not true.

Sharp actually built parts for Apple's Newton message pad, and the ones they sold were under an official licence from Apple.

Image
You're right, thanks for the info
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