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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:36 PM   #151
Avatar74
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Yeah, I am fairly familiar with it. That said my point was only that you *can* compress a video down to a much smaller size than blu ray if you need to given the same source. It will take *much* longer to encode but it can be done within the limits of reason.
I was making a point to other posters that UHD is such a large format that the amount of MPEG-4 AVC compression required to make it a manageable bitstream for transmission (i.e. video on demand that doesn't take six days to buffer) would invariably result in a sizable sacrifice of quality, so then where's the benefit over 1080p when we already know that 1080p on iTunes H264 has a noticeable loss of detail from BluRay.... now consider the even larger magnitude of loss of detail to compress UHD to a manageable stream (i.e. considerably smaller than uncompressed 1080 is now).

The marginal benefit of that highly compressed UHD bitstream over 1080p for an exhibition on a screen smaller than fifty feet is really moot, then.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:39 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
I will agree to the rest but tbh, not so sure they have any better encoder than x264. For video quality its right up there with the best, if not better.
Agreed, and from looking at the metadata I don't even think they are using x264 on their itunes encodes, it looks like they are using some proprietary quicktime encoder. A lot of Blu-ray releases are encoded with x264 now, and large companies like ESPN use x264 for their streaming videos. x264 is the best video encoder out there and if apple is not using it then they are actually sacrificing quality.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:28 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Agreed, and from looking at the metadata I don't even think they are using x264 on their itunes encodes, it looks like they are using some proprietary quicktime encoder. A lot of Blu-ray releases are encoded with x264 now, and large companies like ESPN use x264 for their streaming videos. x264 is the best video encoder out there and if apple is not using it then they are actually sacrificing quality.
Apple uses their own H264 encoder, which they had revised for AppleTV 3 and it probably has to be proprietary to take advantage of specific aspects of their ARM processor... they helped develop MPEG-4 and AAC along with the Motion Picture Experts Group, Fraunhofer-IIS and Dolby Laboratories (AAC is a descendant of A53/AC-3), so few companies have more insight into MPEG-4 AVC than they do.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:05 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Avatar74 View Post
Apple uses their own H264 encoder, which they had revised for AppleTV 3 and it probably has to be proprietary to take advantage of specific aspects of their ARM processor... they helped develop MPEG-4 and AAC along with the Motion Picture Experts Group, Fraunhofer-IIS and Dolby Laboratories (AAC is a descendant of A53/AC-3), so few companies have more insight into MPEG-4 AVC than they do.
Are you sure about that? Apple doesn't even do the encoding themselves, they send the prints to outside encoding companies. So I doubt they are requiring them to use some propriety software they provide, but who knows, they are very secretive about this. Pretty much all 720p Blu-ray rips I've seen encoded with x264 at 4 mbps (same as itunes) blow away the itunes version in quality. They are both encoded from similar master sources, so why does the x264 encode always look so much better?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:42 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Buy the BD and actually own it.
Buy the iTunes version and it's only a "lifetime license."
BD can be sold, willed, given to someone else. iTunes file can't.

I won't even get into the better audio standards (much better than 1992's Dolby Digital) better video quality (much less compression on the BD), BD extras, etc. I'll just offer that iTunes 1080p with DD is not equal to BD 1080p with DTS Master or True HD, etc audio.

For those indifferent, buy the BD (probably save a few bucks), go to the trouble of creating an iTunes version and enjoy all the benefits of it in iTunes (and on your iDevices) plus all of the benefits of actually owning the movie instead of lifetime "renting" it. Once you have it in iTunes, file away the disc in long-term storage in case you ever have a hard drive(s) meltdown and it can also act as your last resort backup.
Great reply

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:51 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by bushido View Post
i bought the BD, i dont like spending money on overpriced "files"

i'm "oldschool" that way and i'm not even that old
So you prefer to buy your overpriced files on an outdated optical disc.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:59 PM   #157
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So you prefer to buy your overpriced files on an outdated optical disc.
no thats why i only buy special limited editions in some cool case/book to put on my shelf collection

and guess what they even come with a FREE itunes download on top of it
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:53 PM   #158
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Kinda surprised this thread is still alive - it's pretty simple some people like the convenience and user experience of iTunes/Apple TV/iTunes in the Cloud.

Others like a physical thing that can be locked away in case of a nuclear war - others may also like the increased quality and extras - others may even like the cool looking boxed sets that look good in a bookcase.

There is no right or wrong answer - some may even do both - not sure why this conversation is still going on weeks later - there is no right or wrong answer - to say there is a "right" answer is arrogance.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:57 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
There is no right or wrong answer - some may even do both - not sure why this conversation is still going on weeks later - there is no right or wrong answer - to say there is a "right" answer is arrogance.
Agreed and well said.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 01:03 AM   #160
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I buy most of my movies on iTunes because I like the iCloud storage and 1080p. I only buy Blu-ray for special box sets that come with extensive special features.

iTunes is more practical, but for the more ~sentimental~ purchases, I like a nice hardcopy.

I wish iTunes Extras were playable on ATV.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 08:50 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by squidkitten View Post
I wish iTunes Extras were playable on ATV.
That is odd. Given the rumblings out of Cupertino, however, I think we can expect AppleTV to take a giant leap, hopefully forward, quite soon.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 02:47 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
There is no right or wrong answer - some may even do both - not sure why this conversation is still going on weeks later - there is no right or wrong answer - to say there is a "right" answer is arrogance.
I don't think it needs to about right and wrong. It's just interesting discussion for why people chose the option they chose. For those of still in debate for a direction, it's helpful to understand other people's choices to help rationalize their own.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 08:23 PM   #163
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I don't think it needs to about right and wrong. It's just interesting discussion for why people chose the option they chose. For those of still in debate for a direction, it's helpful to understand other people's choices to help rationalize their own.
I get that, but enough is enough - we've heard all of the arguments in favor of both options - discussion should be done by now - that is mainly my point there

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That is odd. Given the rumblings out of Cupertino, however, I think we can expect AppleTV to take a giant leap, hopefully forward, quite soon.
It is a weird thing - the big problem is iTunes Extras are a download then play format - until Apple changes that there won't be an easy solution for a modern Apple TV that is a streaming based device. Apple would need to add considerable storage to support downloading of iTunes Extras.

There is a workaround I discovered to sync the video files from iTunes Extras to iPods, iPads, iPhones and streaming to Apple TV - here is a screencast I did if you are curious how its done

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hXD_AmWl08

Hope this helps - I was amazed it was this simple.

Tim
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 09:40 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Omne666 View Post
So let's summarise...

Option 1
Buy from iTunes, wait a few minutes, press play.

Option 2
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery or trip home, RIP it to mkv, have plex on the system or jail broken ATV2, press play.

Option 3
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery, RIP it to mkv, handbrake it, press play.

Gee...I wonder which is easier?

I understand we have audiophiles here, old school own the disc people, potential licence issues down the track with pure digital files, but aren't we forgetting something?

Apples mantra " it just works"?

Apples all ways been about ease of use, ease of access, just plain ease. Perfect no, but always getting better.

I don't own a B&O for sound, my TV isn't a $20k vision nirvana device. Unless they are, your not getting the full benefits of everything by goingi BR then ripping, no matter how good the rip. My wife doesn't sit there and go 'wish we had dts or a better tv'.

Ease of use and an enjoyable experience.

With the iTunes store and an ATV, Apple delivers.

Sorry people, but I just can't see myself fretting over how good my RIPs are, or which jail brake is the best. I just want to watch the movie.As long as these days it's HD, I'm reasonably happy. I use to be happy with DVDs.

Buy the thing through iTunes, and enjoy the experience! If you watch it 2 times or more, your ahead of the game.
Amen to that!

I own a Panny vt50 65 inch plasma and from 10 feet away - no difference between bluray and Apple TV 3.

No waiting to load times for trailers and copyright banners, no worries about scratching or losing or storing optical media

Just have a 300 meg pipe and tv and Apple TV connected to airport extream via gig Ethernet.

No wires or clutter just a giant HDTV on wall
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Old Mar 8, 2013, 10:40 PM   #165
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I got the blu ray trilogy set. Love it!
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