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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:08 AM   #26
deannnnn
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Theft is still theft, Eric.
No. Apple is the bully here. They're the ones trying to get every last scrape of Google off of the iPhone, and are unwilling to play nice when it comes to negotiation. Apple is letting their petty argument hurt the user experience on the iPhone. Google has wanted to collaborate from the beginning.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:10 AM   #27
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No. Apple is the bully here. They're the ones trying to get every last scrape of Google off of the iPhone, and are unwilling to play nice when it comes to negotiation. Apple is letting their petty argument hurt the user experience on the iPhone. Google has wanted to collaborate from the beginning.
Not my point.

I have Gmail. I use it on my iPhone, as well as the Google search app, youtube, etc. I'm not anti-google for the most part.

But many parts of Android are stolen from Apple. Period.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:12 AM   #28
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what did Google steal exactly?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #29
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Saying that Google stole Apple's ideas for Android is like saying that the second car maker to come along stole the first one's ideas by using wheels and seats.

Things like touch scrolling, icons, etc. were the natural progression of cel phones in general. Not to mention, Apple has copied their share of features, too, like the notification center.
Did the first car maker have patents on those ideas the second maker stole? Then the first maker had the right to defend their R & D.

Look at the Windows phone. I wouldn't want one, but at least they did it the right way, licensing the parts of Apple they wanted to use, and coming up with their own ideas.

I like certain products of Google. I just dislike theft of ideas. Apple shouldn't have to do R & D for Android.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #30
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by uknowimright View Post
what did Google steal exactly?
I suggest you just google it, I'm not going to sit here and help you catch up on the last few years of Apple vs. Android.

EDIT: If this wasn't directed at me, I apologize.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:15 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Not my point.

I have Gmail. I use it on my iPhone, as well as the Google search app, youtube, etc. I'm not anti-google for the most part.

But many parts of Android are stolen from Apple. Period.
Which parts exactly?

I have a feeling a lot of people get confused over what exactly Android is and they to lump in modifications added to the stock OS (Samsung icons, scroll bounce e.t.c). Which parts of the AOSP build of android have stolen from Apple directly and more curiously, why are apple letting Google get away with such blatant infringement?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:16 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post
Saying that Google stole Apple's ideas for Android is like saying that the second car maker to come along stole the first one's ideas by using wheels and seats.

Things like touch scrolling, icons, etc. were the natural progression of cel phones in general. Not to mention, Apple has copied their share of features, too, like the notification center.
I'm not sure where people get this notion that iPhones and like devices were a natural progression from Blackberrys and Treos. iPhone completely changed the mobile landscape, and companies that dominated this space just a few years ago are now struggling just to survive.

I still remember all the naysayers talking about how inane Apple's approach was and drawing up a long list of reasons why it would fail. Some point to LG's Prada as evidence of this natural progression, but the Prada was a gimmick to stand out in a sea of nondescript devices with declining margins, and a good case study of why a touchscreen phone would never work. Without the iPhone, the industry most likely would have stayed the course with more blackberry-like devices.

As for the notification center, that's one feature that Apple copied, which Google "borrowed" from Palm. I don't see how copying Apple's entire UI paradigm and all the UI innovations that they brought to market makes that a one to one comparison.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:17 AM   #34
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At some point they should just roshambo each other for it. Apple should probably go first.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:17 AM   #35
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Which parts exactly?

I have a feeling a lot of people get confused over what exactly Android is and they to lump in modifications added to the stock OS (Samsung icons, scroll bounce e.t.c). Which parts of the AOSP build of android have stolen from Apple directly and more curiously, why are apple letting Google get away with such blatant infringement?
Again, not going point by point. Pinch to zoom would be one. Rubber banding, another.

And excellent point, I'm not sure why Apple hasn't gone directly after Google - E Schmidt doesn't understand, either. So I can't even begin to guess.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:17 AM   #36
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Amazing how Schmidt feigns ignorance on things as if he's genuinely surprised at what Apple does. What's more amazing is people actually buy this act from him. And what's really scary is it looks quite likely Obama will be putting him in his cabinet - either as Secretary of Treasury or Commerce.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:20 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
I suggest you just google it, I'm not going to sit here and help you catch up on the last few years of Apple vs. Android.

EDIT: If this wasn't directed at me, I apologize.
This was my point. It's apple vs HTC, Apple vs Samsung, Apple vs Motorola, not apple vs android is it?

Samsung's custom icons, Samsung's addition of scroll bounce, Samsung's iPhone design copying have all been scrutinised by the courts and very little of stock android has been an issue (bouncy scrolling app drawer on gingerbread was one example of stock android being pulled as I've example though)
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:22 AM   #38
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We all know Schmidt isn't really this obtuse. Don't take the bait Tim.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:23 AM   #39
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If by "adult way" they mean "an X-rated wrestling video", sign me up for one.
I have no desire to watch Larry Page and Tim Cook engage in that sort of thing, but whatever flats your boat.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:26 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ChazUK View Post
This was my point. It's apple vs HTC, Apple vs Samsung, Apple vs Motorola, not apple vs android is it?

Samsung's custom icons, Samsung's addition of scroll bounce, Samsung's iPhone design copying have all been scrutinised by the courts and very little of stock android has been an issue (bouncy scrolling app drawer on gingerbread was one example of stock android being pulled as I've example though)
I'm the first to admit that it's odd. I would think that Apple would go straight for the head - what's the saying? "Kill the head and the snake is dead?" Unless Apple thinks that if they can force hardware makers away from Android, it'll be Google/Motorola vs Apple for market share, a much easier battle than Apple vs. 5 hardware makers + Google.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:27 AM   #41
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It always baffled me that Jobs would quote Picasso in saying "Good artists copy, great artists steal". Yet he's accusing everyone of stealing Apples ideas. Makes no sense really.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:27 AM   #42
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ES should be in jail.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:32 AM   #43
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Adult way?

Then why did Google copy Apple's homework and submit it as its own?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:32 AM   #44
ChazUK
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Again, not going point by point. Pinch to zoom would be one. Rubber banding, another.

And excellent point, I'm not sure why Apple hasn't gone directly after Google - E Schmidt doesn't understand, either. So I can't even being to guess.
Why not go point by point for the discussion?

This is what I can see the Nexus S 4g infringing on in the Samsung case (the best example we have on "Android" copying so far).

Source


'381 patent (rubber band) - YES (exhibited in the 3D app drawer)
'915 patent - YES (915 relates to a device capable of distinguishing between a single-touch scroll operation and a multi-touch pinch-to-zoom operation.)
'163 patent - NO (double tap patent) - Odd as the NS4G does double tap to zoom.
D '677 patent - NO (design patent)
D '087 patent - NO (design patent)
D '305 patent - NO (user interface patent)
D '889 patent - NO (which relates to the industrial design of a tablet computer,)

Looking at the above, stock Android got off on many counts in the Samsung case. Other areas I believe stock Android was not found to infringe was with the partial gallery swiping patent (snap-back). Also in other areas of the world the swipe to unlock patent is looking dubious thanks to the Neonode N1 with it's own implementation of swipe to unlock.

EDIT: Google aren't totally guilt free of borrowing Apple's ideas but a lot of the crap and changes Samsung have thrown on their Android builds gets lumped in with the stock OS as a whole. People have a lot of trouble separating the two IMO.
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Last edited by ChazUK; Dec 5, 2012 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Spelling.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:34 AM   #45
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I get tired of Eric's drivel. I'm not sure who at turns creeps me out and makes me laugh more, him or Ballmer.

And why Eric was not prosecuted for theft and breach of fiduciary responsibility is beyond me.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:35 AM   #46
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" They threw YouTube off the home screen [of iPhones and iPads]. I'm not quite sure why they did that."

Because it's not a G***am Google product, moron!
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:37 AM   #47
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The adult way to run a business is to run it more like a country. They have disputes, yet they've actually been able to have huge trade with each other. They're not sending bombs at each other.
The two countries that come to mind are Israel and Iran.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:42 AM   #48
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Mr. Corporate Espionage himself...
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:45 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Again, not going point by point. Pinch to zoom would be one. Rubber banding, another.
Both Pinch to Zoom and Rubber Banding are not Apple's inventions or owned by Apple though. So why do you think Google stole them from Apple exactly ?

Apple's Rubber banding patent was even discussed 2 months ago when it was declared invalid by the USPTO due to Prior art.

Anyway, anyone using "theft" to describe patent infringement doesn't have a clue as to what patents protect nor what infringement entails. No one has stolen anything from Apple. Infringing on patents is not theft. Apple is guilty of infringing many patents, you don't hear people screaming "Apple stole from Klausner! Apple stole from Creative Labs!" now do you ?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:46 AM   #50
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Then why did Google copy Apple's homework and submit it as its own?
What homework copied?
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