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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:13 AM   #76
teknikal90
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Why can't everyone admit that stealing will happen regardless???
Steve Jobs said at the iPhone intro that iOS is 5 years ahead... well guess what, it's been 5 years...there will be competitors! Android is now markedly different to iOS, and, arguably, is better!
You can't make a 'revolution' unless everyone else follows you. Otherwise it's just being the odd one out.

I see this news as extremely good news. Yes, maybe he stole ideas from Apple to get Android up and running. Not cool, but what do you expect him to do? steal from the dying RIM model? But what's done is done, enough with the bickering already - it's loss leading, it's counter-productive, and it doesn't change the past.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:14 AM   #77
PBG4 Dude
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Originally Posted by Karma*Police View Post
As for the notification center, that's one feature that Apple copied, which Google "borrowed" from Palm. I don't see how copying Apple's entire UI paradigm and all the UI innovations that they brought to market makes that a one to one comparison.
Guess everyone forgot that Apple hired the guy who created WebOS notifications.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:15 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
Google should hire you as legal counsel.
Better Apple doesn't hire all of you, armchair lawyers that can't say anything apart of the holy words "they have stolen"
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:20 AM   #79
Lennholm
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Uh, no. My opinion that Google has stolen some aspects and features of iOS STEMS from my knowledge of the patents Apple possesses. I didn't form an opinion at all until I saw the evidence presented. Do not guess at my intentions here.

Once more: I do not despise Google, I use many of their products and services. My opinion, if you want to call it that, is that Google "borrowed" quite extensively from Apple's R & D. As Apple owns the IP in question, they have the right to defend said IP.
Having the right to defend and calling something "theft" when the jury is still out on the matter are two different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Theft is theft. When Apple steals, they deserve to pay or settle out of court. Just like with their copying the clock design in iOS. Wrong. But they paid, so it's no longer theft. Once Google settles, it's no longer theft. Until then, based on my view of the evidence presented, Google is in the wrong.
You brought up the question of patents, implying that having a patent is a prerequisite for something to even be subject of "theft".
You can't say that and at the same time deny the requirement of the patent and the claim to be upheld and validated by a court before it can be rightfully called "theft".
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:21 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Theft is theft. When Apple steals, they deserve to pay or settle out of court. Just like with their copying the clock design in iOS. Wrong. But they paid, so it's no longer theft. Once Google settles, it's no longer theft. Until then, based on my view of the evidence presented, Google is in the wrong.
But that's the point, patent infringement is not theft. In the Visual Voice Mail case with Klausner, do you really think Apple had prior knowledge of Klausner's patents ? In the Creative Labs case, do you think Apple had knowledge of Creative Labs' patents ?

Patent infringement does not even require you to know about your competitions IP or products at all. It's not like the Clock design (which would be trademark infringement, not theft or patent infringement, different rules).

That's why it's daft to call patent infringement theft. You can infringe a patent just by having come up with a similar solution to a problem.

What evidence are you even talking about anyway ? Google is in the wrong for what ? There has been no case against Google or any discovery or submitted evidence!
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:23 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
Apple had a contract with Google. Contract ended. Apple didn't renew.

I think Google thought that Apple would 'come to their senses' - figure out that Maps and YouTube were needed, and renew at the 11th hour. Google bet all their chips that this would happen. It didn't. Google had to scramble, and is now blaming Apple for Google not having a backup plan.

Google has the best products, but they had a snobby attitude that Apple would continue to use their products. It bit them in the arse when Apple decided to compete with Google.

Now Eric Schmidt is trying to save face by spinning this.
Lol this post reeks of bias
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:27 AM   #82
aerok
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
Google should hire you as legal counsel.
You should join Apple's fanclub... oh wait.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:27 AM   #83
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I'm bored of this conversation. My opinion, which is ok for me to hold, btw - is that based on the evidence, Google has copied quite a bit from Apple. Maybe Schmidt took some ideas, maybe some of it was "innocent."

Either way, I still use and enjoy both Apple and Google services. G'day, all.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:28 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
I'm bored of this conversation. My opinion, which is ok for me to hold, btw - is that based on the evidence, Google has copied quite a bit from Apple. Maybe Schmidt took some ideas, maybe some of it was "innocent."

Either way, I still use and enjoy both Apple and Google services. G'day, all.
The reason why people refute your claims is because there is a clear bias in the way you present the opinion/arguments.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:29 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Karma*Police View Post
As for the notification center, that's one feature that Apple copied, which Google "borrowed" from Palm. I don't see how copying Apple's entire UI paradigm and all the UI innovations that they brought to market makes that a one to one comparison.
Palm showed webOS way before Google released Android with the notifications.

And no, Apple did not copy Google
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:36 AM   #86
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The adult way, huh Eric? Okay...

Ten paces, turn and fire!
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:47 AM   #87
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Sadly now days 'the Adult Way' is suing the heck out of each other...

Quote:
Google Chairman Eric Schmidt Says Apple and Google Will Resolve Issues 'the Adult Way'
Now days, 'the Adult Way' is not very pleasant.

'the Adult Way' is suing the heck out of each other to prove who has more money and power.

I hope they really resolve it with style and grace and set a good example for the rest of the industry. That would be good for Apple and Google brand.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:49 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
I'm bored of this conversation. My opinion, which is ok for me to hold, btw - is that based on the evidence, Google has copied quite a bit from Apple. Maybe Schmidt took some ideas, maybe some of it was "innocent."

Either way, I still use and enjoy both Apple and Google services. G'day, all.
Having a personal opinion is perfectly fine, but you seemed to imply that a personal opinion on theft would somehow be invalid if the 'inventor' didn't hold a patent, which would be a weird thing to state.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:50 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by JBunkers View Post
Which doesn't make it any more valid. Did Google bother to patent their "Notification center" idea? If not, then anybody bringing that subject up as an argument is full of baloney, to put it very nicely.
Notification center (with the pull down shade and all that) wasn't even Google's idea. It was in jailbroken iPhones before Android even existed. Incidentally, Apple ended up hiring the Cydia developer who came up with the idea and then released iOS5's notification center based largely on his version in Cydia.

Heck, since Apple now employs the guy who Google ripped it from, maybe Apple and him should sue Google for copying their notification center. That would be hilarious!
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:59 AM   #90
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The fanboys and girls on both sides flame the fire and fight the fight. I've always been an apple fanboy, but never understood the divisive fierce battle over inanimate objects. Apple is no longer beleaguered, thank the lord, and is perfectly capable of making bad decisions like anyone else. Save the fervor for upholding democracy and ending world hunger. We all win with competition in the marketplace, let's respect that process.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:16 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by newagemac View Post
Notification center (with the pull down shade and all that) wasn't even Google's idea. It was in jailbroken iPhones before Android even existed.
Wrong, Cydia notifications in sbsetting came in August 2.008, Android had notifications on its SDK on February 2.008

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Originally Posted by newagemac View Post
Heck, since Apple now employs the guy who Google ripped it from, maybe Apple and him should sue Google for copying their notification center. That would be hilarious!
And wrong again
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:20 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
It's more complicated than that.

Google refused to license turn-by-turn directions to Apple.
So when you said the contract ended you didn't mean it.

Now back to "refused to license turn-by-turn directions" , you mean they were willing to license but not at terms Apple would agree to.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:26 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Better Apple doesn't hire all of you, armchair lawyers that can't say anything apart of the holy words "they have stolen"
You're right that there probably isn't grounds to win court cases, but here is what happened. The CEO of a search engine company was on the board of a technology company. The technology company came up with a revolutionary operating system for phones which plans it shared with the board. Within a short time the search engine company announces that it is entering a new business where it will produce an operating system for phones. When it comes out it looks incredibly similar to what the technology company had shared with the board while they were developing it.

Do you really mean to tell me that there was no "stealing" here? You don't have to be a lawyer to see when someone screws someone else, even if they figure out a way to legally get away with it.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:30 PM   #94
Oletros
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Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
You're right that there probably isn't grounds to win court cases, but here is what happened. The CEO of a search engine company was on the board of a technology company. The technology company came up with a revolutionary operating system for phones which plans it shared with the board. Within a short time the search engine company announces that it is entering a new business where it will produce an operating system for phones. When it comes out it looks incredibly similar to what the technology company had shared with the board while they were developing it.
And how do you take into account that the "search company" bought the smartphone operating system company one year BEFORE that the CEO was invited to the "technology company" board?

And if you think that a CEO is needed to copy how a phone looks I think you don't know much about technology
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:43 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
You're right that there probably isn't grounds to win court cases, but here is what happened. The CEO of a search engine company was on the board of a technology company. The technology company came up with a revolutionary operating system for phones which plans it shared with the board. Within a short time the search engine company announces that it is entering a new business where it will produce an operating system for phones. When it comes out it looks incredibly similar to what the technology company had shared with the board while they were developing it.

Do you really mean to tell me that there was no "stealing" here? You don't have to be a lawyer to see when someone screws someone else, even if they figure out a way to legally get away with it.
Andy Rubin founded Danger Inc. in 1998.
Danger Inc. released the Hiptop software for the T-mobile Sidekick around 2001-2002.
Andy Rubin left Danger Inc. to found Android Inc in 2003.
Google acquired Android Inc. in 2005 with plans to go into the mobile space.
Eric Schmidt was invited to Apple's board in August 2006.
Apple introduced the iPhone in January of 2007.

That's the timeline. 6 months of access to "priviledge" information, if he even had that.

Heck, Apple never accused Eric of stealing anything, Apple invited Eric to their board in full knowledge of Google's acquisition of Android. Are you calling Apple idiots ?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:45 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Theft is still theft, Eric.
This charlatan, copycat and world-class criminal should be in jail, period. He is lucky he lives in the US of A, apparently a great place for impunity.

p.s.: And he dares compare himself with Steve Jobs? Only in the crazy world of Superman Bizarro, of course.

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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:47 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Andy Rubin founded Danger Inc. in 1998.
Danger Inc. released the Hiptop software for the T-mobile Sidekick around 2001-2002.
Andy Rubin left Danger Inc. to found Android Inc in 2003.
Google acquired Android Inc. in 2005 with plans to go into the mobile space.
Eric Schmidt was invited to Apple's board in August 2006.
Apple introduced the iPhone in January of 2007.

That's the timeline. 6 months of access to "priviledge" information, if he even had that.

Heck, Apple never accused Eric of stealing anything, Apple invited Eric to their board in full knowledge of Google's acquisition of Android. Are you calling Apple idiots ?
Steve Jobs:

“I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple’s $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong. I’m going to destroy Android, because it’s a stolen product.”

“I’m going to destroy Android, because it’s a stolen product. I’m willing to go thermonuclear war on this.”

Does this sound like a man who agrees with your interpretation of the "timeline"
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:50 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Google acquired Android Inc. in 2005 with plans to go into the mobile space.
Eric Schmidt was invited to Apple's board in August 2006.
Apple introduced the iPhone in January of 2007.
And Android was released in September 2008. One year and 8 months after the unveiling of the iPhone. Why such a long wait if Android was acquired by Google in 2005? Is anyone really naive enough to believe that Google's Android team didn't start some serious retooling of their OS after first seeing the iPhone in January 2007? Hence the additional 20 months until Android's release?

I'm not.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:51 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazUK View Post
What exactly does Google need to licence out of interest?

I'm unaware of Google being found guilty of infringing on any of Apple's patents directly thus far.

----------



It's under review AFAIK.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090249247
It hasn't. And any who've thoroughly used both an iPhone and an Android knows their operating systems aren't the same. Other than the Samsung case here in the US, Apple has lost ground in most other countries. $1 billion is a slap on the wrist to Samsung.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:53 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
Does this sound like a man who agrees with your interpretation of the "timeline"
What's there to interpret? A timeline is a timeline. Either it's completely factual, or an outright lie.

Considering we can look up each individual date and product mentioned above, there isn't much room for dispute here.
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