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Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:56 AM   #26
myrtlebee
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Originally Posted by Johnny Alien View Post
2. Mountain Lion needs 2GB to run well and with only 2GB it's really not that snappy. With one or two more OS updates it's going to be brutal on 2GB. So apps aside there is a limitation to buying a year old machine. What is made to be quick and current for 3-4 years will now be 2-3 for you.
False. I've been using mine for 6 months. Mountain Lion is extremely snappy, whereas my sister has a 2009 MBP C2D with 8GB RAM (the other machine the OP is considering) and it does not run SL smoothly at times. Especially the animations/ transitions. As far your second sentiment goes about the next OS releases, that could be true, but is the OP actually planning on keeping his for 3 years? Many people, especially on this forum, upgrade after a year or two anyway.


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If it were me I would get this find an older copy of Snow Leopard and do a clean install to that. SL would run fantastic on that machine and as long as the owner is OK with rocking an older OS it would make a great machine.
I don't think this possible. You can't install SL on a machine that comes pre-bundled with Lion or ML. At least that's what Apple says. And why would he want to do that? It was MADE to run with Lion. It is fully capable of running Lion AND Mountain Lion. Do you own this machine? You are doing an awful lot of assuming for someone who doesn't own this model.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:06 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by coldjeanzzz View Post
why spend $700 for ancient specs just because it's a Mac? Spend 700 on something that won't handicap you
Did you ever use one ?
My wife's MBA 11" with 2 Gb is just perfect for home usage, including some light works on Office and iPhoto ...
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Johnny Alien View Post
1. This is a good deal but not a fantastic deal. You can get a refurb with full warranty for about $150 more.

2. Mountain Lion needs 2GB to run well and with only 2GB it's really not that snappy. With one or two more OS updates it's going to be brutal on 2GB. So apps aside there is a limitation to buying a year old machine. What is made to be quick and current for 3-4 years will now be 2-3 for you.

3. It's more than just the ram amount. There is not only a jump from 2GB to 4GB but the ram speed itself is faster on the 2012 model. Add that the processor speed bump and the graphics boost the 2012 is overall a pretty big bump up from the 2011.

2GB is not the worst but you will feel it in about 2 years. For many with a quick update schedule that is fine but for me I like a major purchase to last as long as possible. With so many refurb deals out there it's hard to settle. However the price is decent. If it were me I would get this find an older copy of Snow Leopard and do a clean install to that. SL would run fantastic on that machine and as long as the owner is OK with rocking an older OS it would make a great machine.
1- you'll be lucky to find a 2012 MBA in the Refurb store for anywhere near $699, probably nowhere near it, i've checked.

2- ML runs quicker, is more efficient with RAM and caches less than Lion did, so actually the last upgrade to the OS was the reverse. 2GB works on ML because OSX manages how much RAM is available, so often people tell me they have 16GB RAM and activity monitor shows over 10GB in use, of course it will because if it's available then OSX will use it, but it doesn't mean it needs it - BIG difference.

3 - Agreed on that, but then a a 2012 model is twice the price, so i'd expect that jump up in performance.

SL will not run better, just because it's minimum RAM requirement is 1GB. ML is actually quite good at managing real and virtual RAM.


EDIT: It seems Myrtlebee has beaten me to some similar points.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:14 PM   #29
Max(IT)
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Originally Posted by Johnny Alien View Post

2. Mountain Lion needs 2GB to run well and with only 2GB it's really not that snappy. With one or two more OS updates it's going to be brutal on 2GB. So apps aside there is a limitation to buying a year old machine. What is made to be quick and current for 3-4 years will now be 2-3 for you.
Same question for you: did you ever use one ?
I installed ML on my wife's MBA one month ago and it's snappier than the previous Lion ...
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:15 PM   #30
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I was wondering if I should buy this for college and some Java/C++ programming work.
For Java, you will want 8 or 16 GB. Java IDEs like IntelliJ and Eclipse alone need 1GB. Java compiler or run time will need anywhere between 512 MB to 2 GB for typical apps. If you develop web app, you will also need to run database and other things.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
False. I've been using mine for 6 months. Mountain Lion is extremely snappy, whereas my sister has a 2009 MBP C2D with 8GB RAM (the other machine the OP is considering) and it does not run SL smoothly at times. Especially the animations/ transitions. As far your second sentiment goes about the next OS releases, that could be true, but is the OP actually planning on keeping his for 3 years? Many people, especially on this forum, upgrade after a year or two anyway.
The upgrade was my comment about the machine. I said that if they plan on upgrading no big deal. I try to sap as much time as I can from a major purchase but not everyone does. If SL doesn't run well on a C2D with 8GB of ram there might be another issue. That is plenty of ram for that OS and that is the processor that was used all the time with SL.

My point is that 2GB is the bare minimum that Apple suggests to run Lion or Mountain Lion. I have found it to be sluggish at times with 2GB.


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I don't think this possible. You can't install SL on a machine that comes pre-bundled with Lion or ML. At least that's what Apple says. And why would he want to do that? It was MADE to run with Lion. It is fully capable of running Lion AND Mountain Lion. Do you own this machine? You are doing an awful lot of assuming for someone who doesn't own this model.
Totally possible but it would require deleting the HD contents and doing a install from the discs. That air was built with Lion in mind but it is also the bare minimum of requirements. I would do SL because it's a great OS that would fly on that setup. I do not currently own a 2GB Air but I have used one extensively and currently own a 4GB 11" 2012 Air. I can say that the difference is well worth the $150 difference between last years and a refurb model.

----------

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Originally Posted by Max(IT) View Post
Same question for you: did you ever use one ?
I installed ML on my wife's MBA one month ago and it's snappier than the previous Lion ...
Yes I have. Others have seen an improvement with ML over Lion so that could be true. The one I used had Lion installed.

----------

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Originally Posted by Beanoir View Post
SL will not run better, just because it's minimum RAM requirement is 1GB. ML is actually quite good at managing real and virtual RAM.
I wasn't going by requirements alone in suggesting SL. From experience it is a way snappier OS than Lion or ML with the same hardware.

I didn't notice any speed bumps going from Lion to ML but others obviously have. I will say that I didn't see any decrease in speed though. The speed drop was obvious to me from SL to Lion.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:32 PM   #32
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I didn't notice any speed bumps going from Lion to ML but others obviously have. I will say that I didn't see any decrease in speed though. The speed drop was obvious to me from SL to Lion.
The speed of what - can you be more specific?
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:37 PM   #33
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In reading these posts, there seems to be some confusion or it could just be me, anyway when you or if one buys the 11" 2011 Air from Macconnection at 699.00 it DOES come with the 1 yr warranty and 90 day support from apple.

My plan is to use it just as it came, and see what the 2013 model brings.
I am totally enjoying mine.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:45 PM   #34
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The speed of what - can you be more specific?
My wife's imac came with SL. When I upgraded to Lion everything slowed down. I can't be more specific. It was literally everything. It went from being a snappy system to just being a drag. As soon as I doubled her RAM everything went back to how it was prior to the upgrade. The decrease in speed included the boot time, time to open windows and apps, time coming back from sleep, even Safari's rendering seemed to slow down. I upped the ram and then everything was fine again. But on the exact same hardware Lion brought things down.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:50 PM   #35
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Totally possible but it would require deleting the HD contents and doing a install from the discs. That air was built with Lion in mind but it is also the bare minimum of requirements. I would do SL because it's a great OS that would fly on that setup. I do not currently own a 2GB Air but I have used one extensively and currently own a 4GB 11" 2012 Air. I can say that the difference is well worth the $150 difference between last years and a refurb model.
My MBA is flying with Mountain Lion on 2GB of RAM. No issues. At all. There is absolutely no need to do some trick maneuver to downgrade to Snow Leopard. Totally unnecessary. And again, I don't think it's even possible if one had that (strange) urge. You can't simply do an install from discs after wiping the drive for anything before Lion on a 2011 model.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:00 PM   #36
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My MBA is flying with Mountain Lion on 2GB of RAM. No issues. At all. There is absolutely no need to do some trick maneuver to downgrade to Snow Leopard. Totally unnecessary. And again, I don't think it's even possible if one had that (strange) urge. You can't simply do an install from discs after wiping the drive for anything before Lion on a 2011 model.
It is definitely possible.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:02 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=sostoobad;16449928]In reading these posts, there seems to be some confusion or it could just be me, anyway when you or if one buys the 11" 2011 Air from Macconnection at 699.00 it DOES come with the 1 yr warranty and 90 day support from apple.

My plan is to use it just as it came, and see what the 2013 model brings.
I am totally enjoying mine.[/QUOTE


It is my understanding one year warranty and 90 days since it is a new machine
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:34 PM   #38
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It is definitely possible.
It is not possible and at the same time to have the functioning of all of the hardware. You will not get to use the thunderbolt ports. You will not get much trackpad support. You will not have corresponding function keys on the top row of the keyboard. The machines were built quite literally to be used in tandem with Lion and ML. Again, totally and completely unnecessary.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:50 PM   #39
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It is not possible and at the same time to have the functioning of all of the hardware. You will not get to use the thunderbolt ports. You will not get much trackpad support. You will not have corresponding function keys on the top row of the keyboard. The machines were built quite literally to be used in tandem with Lion and ML. Again, totally and completely unnecessary.
I figured that the function keys would be an issue but didn't really think about the other hardware support. I have done downgrades of OS X before but not on an air. A quick search shows it is possible but clunky unless you know enough to do some patching. Thanks for the info. I should have thought about the hardware issues before responding with such authority.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 05:39 PM   #40
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1. This is a good deal but not a fantastic deal. You can get a refurb with full warranty for about $150 more.
I understand what you are saying. I just ordered a new refurb mid-2011 11in 1.6GHz 4GB RAM and 128 GB SSD. All for $799 shipped with no sales tax since I will pick it up in OR (live in WA).

The Mac connection one at $699 would have cost me $755 as they charge sales tax in WA for some reason. Plus it only had 2GB RAM and 64GB SSD. So I basically got double RAM and double SSD space for $44 more. Well worth it IMO as I will get the money back in resale.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 05:48 PM   #41
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why spend $700 for ancient specs just because it's a Mac? Spend 700 on something that won't handicap you
+1000000x.

It's 2012. If you're going to be developing, get something with at least 4gb of ram. Most IDE's are pretty bloated these days not to mention what additional programming tools you will have running.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 06:13 PM   #42
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[QUOTE=53x12;16451319]I understand what you are saying. I just ordered a new refurb mid-2011 11in 1.6GHz 4GB RAM and 128 GB SSD. All for $799 shipped with no sales tax since I will pick it up in OR (live in WA).

Where did you order from please?
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 06:24 PM   #43
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Where did you order from please?
It was from Apple refurb website. Just looked again and looks they are sold out. Didn't last long, that is for sure. Happy I have an order number and it is preparing for shipping.

For the price, I haven't seen any other Apple deals that come close.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 06:33 PM   #44
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Figures....Thanks
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 06:42 PM   #45
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Figures....Thanks
Just keep your eye open and check the refurb section as they add stuff from time to time.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 06:46 PM   #46
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My wife's imac came with SL. When I upgraded to Lion everything slowed down. I can't be more specific. It was literally everything. It went from being a snappy system to just being a drag. As soon as I doubled her RAM everything went back to how it was prior to the upgrade. The decrease in speed included the boot time, time to open windows and apps, time coming back from sleep, even Safari's rendering seemed to slow down. I upped the ram and then everything was fine again. But on the exact same hardware Lion brought things down.
Well I've learnt already this evening that you're not actually as informed as you make out. You should be able to identify certain processes that are slow such as start up, opening programs, processing tasks in certain programs, file transfers, etc etc.

To make a blanket statement like you have is not very helpful as many processes that could be slow are not a function of how much RAM a computer does or doesn't have, it could have been CPU related for instance, or hard drive related, or something else.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:36 AM   #47
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Well I've learnt already this evening that you're not actually as informed as you make out. You should be able to identify certain processes that are slow such as start up, opening programs, processing tasks in certain programs, file transfers, etc etc.

To make a blanket statement like you have is not very helpful as many processes that could be slow are not a function of how much RAM a computer does or doesn't have, it could have been CPU related for instance, or hard drive related, or something else.
I've learned something about you as well. I listed many of the things that slowed down and many you repeated right here. The computer behaved one way on SL then immediately after the installation things were slower as I said above. I doubled the ram and it now acts as it did before. I doubt it's a hard drive issue based on what I have seen. But whatever you know more about my computer than me.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 04:12 AM   #48
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I've learned something about you as well. I listed many of the things that slowed down and many you repeated right here. The computer behaved one way on SL then immediately after the installation things were slower as I said above. I doubled the ram and it now acts as it did before. I doubt it's a hard drive issue based on what I have seen. But whatever you know more about my computer than me.
What THINGS slowed down!!!?? Come on, it's not that difficult is it?
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:55 AM   #49
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What THINGS slowed down!!!?? Come on, it's not that difficult is it?
I am totally confused as to whether you think I didn't give you enough or if you didn't read my posts at all.

I was asked this question.

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Originally Posted by Beanoir View Post
The speed of what - can you be more specific?
To which I responded with this.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Alien View Post
The decrease in speed included the boot time, time to open windows and apps, time coming back from sleep, even Safari's rendering seemed to slow down.
And then you quoted that very response and said this.

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Originally Posted by Beanoir View Post
Well I've learnt already this evening that you're not actually as informed as you make out. You should be able to identify certain processes that are slow such as start up, opening programs, processing tasks in certain programs, file transfers, etc etc.
Ummm....OK. I actually stated three of those exact things in the response that you quoted. Did you read what you quoted? If so why did you ask me to identify things that I had just said. I even pointed that out.

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I listed many of the things that slowed down and many you repeated right here
And yet you are still asking me for the specifics.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:57 AM   #50
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FYI right now at the refurb store are 11" airs for sale

They have the 2011 11 base for 719.00 the same one Macconnection has for 699.00 new....kind of strange the manufacturer has it at a higher price then the store they sold them too....weird marketing there.

2012 11" base model 849.00

2012 11" 4gb 128gb 929.00

2011 11" 4gb 256gb 1069.00

2012 11" 8gb 256 gb 1399.00

So pick your poison so to speak. I chose the 11" base 2011 for what it is, a machine that can do a lot, not all but its price to me was a good value.
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