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Old Dec 8, 2012, 04:59 PM   #1
diablo9333
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Do the new iMacs have the integrated graphics?

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but I recall with the previous iMac lineup you could see on the Apple website that it included the integrated graphics that come built in with the CPU but with this lineup I don't see that. Does anyone on here have the new iMac and can they verify whether Apple somehow removed the integrated graphics? I know it might sound like a silly suggestion but I was just wondering as they have it unlisted and with an iMac that thin, you begin to wonder what else is missing besides upgradable RAM and HDDs.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 05:19 PM   #2
Lukkee24
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Yeah I noticed it wasn't listed, but as this will be my first iMac (in fact, any mac), I wasn't sure if the previous ones had it or not.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 05:23 PM   #3
joe-h2o
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It's not "missing" since it was never used - the iMac has a discrete GPU that is never disabled, so an integrated GPU is simply not needed.

The CPUs that Apple uses from Intel are the ones that either do not have the integrated GPU in the first place, or have the "HD2500" one tacked on - ie, they don't bother paying extra for the HD3000/HD4000 "higher spec" integrated GPUs on the Sandy/Ivy chips, they just get the cheaper ones.

Having the HD4000 integrated GPU would be a pointless and unnecessary extra cost for the iMac since it would never be used.

Edit: The RAM and HDD are upgradable in both 2012 iMacs (21" and 27"), although you have to take the screen off to do the RAM in the 21". In exactly the same way as in the earlier iMacs, you obviously have to remove the screen to replace the HDD.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 05:26 PM   #4
Adam552
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You will not be able to update the graphics in the iMac.
The graphics in the iMac are not integrated, they are powerful discrete mobile GPUs. They don't use integrated graphics on the CPU.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 05:28 PM   #5
Incindium
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Actually it would be good to know because there are things the integrated GPU can be used for with the Ivy Bridge chips even when using a dedicated GPU.

Edit:
Looks like they do have on board graphics. The I-fixit teardown on the 21.5" showed a i5 3330s proc which has HD2500

Last edited by Incindium; Dec 8, 2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 07:29 PM   #6
glitch44
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Come on, it took me 3 clicks in 10 seconds to find the answer on Apple.com.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:41 PM   #7
MatthewAMEL
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Originally Posted by glitch44 View Post
Come on, it took me 3 clicks in 10 seconds to find the answer on Apple.com.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/
That doesn't answer the OPs question.

Every Ivy Bridge Mobile processor and all but one Desktop model come with the IGP. (the i5-3550P is the exception)

Apple isn't worried about battery/performance levels in the iMac, so there is no GPU switcher provided, but the IGP is present, just not used.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 05:59 AM   #8
leman
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The iMac CPUs do have an integrated GPU, but its most likely not even hooked to the display output. So in essence, its deactivated.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 08:24 AM   #9
kaellar
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
The iMac CPUs do have an integrated GPU, but its most likely not even hooked to the display output. So in essence, its deactivated.
Sad but true, especially considering the fact that Intel's QuickSync used in its IGP can vastly improve encoding performance in some apps.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 08:40 AM   #10
joe-h2o
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Originally Posted by kaellar View Post
Sad but true, especially considering the fact that Intel's QuickSync used in its IGP can vastly improve encoding performance in some apps.
Why is that sad but true?

The GPU does not need to be hooked to a display output to be used as a co-processor.

GPGPU stuff is often done on setups with multiple GPUs that are installed but not connected to an output.

The IGP on the CPU die will be accessible to the processor, it just won't be able to use it to display things on the screen.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 09:24 AM   #11
kaellar
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Originally Posted by joe-h2o View Post
Why is that sad but true?

The GPU does not need to be hooked to a display output to be used as a co-processor.

GPGPU stuff is often done on setups with multiple GPUs that are installed but not connected to an output.

The IGP on the CPU die will be accessible to the processor, it just won't be able to use it to display things on the screen.
I've been using a PC with i5-2400 CPU since my mbp 2009 died. I don't know if Mac OS currently allows IGP usage while discrete GPU is active, but under win7 it can't be done without some tweaks like Lucid Virtu. It forces both GPUs to be active at the same time, and even that feature doesn't work really well for my usage scenario.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 10:13 AM   #12
leman
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Originally Posted by kaellar View Post
Sad but true, especially considering the fact that Intel's QuickSync used in its IGP can vastly improve encoding performance in some apps.
I believe the use of QuickSync is independent of whether the IGP is used for video output or not. Also, if I am not mistaken, QuickSync extends the CPU instruction set to provide some specialised encode/decode commands. I have no idea how it is actually implemented though.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 10:30 AM   #13
Chupa Chupa
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FWIW my 21" entry does not list integrated where my 15" rMBP does, so if it is on the CPU it's disabled.

Not sure why you'd want the Intel 4000. The point of having dual GPUs on the laptops is to save battery when integrated is overkill. But on a desktop the power savings is minimal so doesn't make much sense.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 10:41 AM   #14
glitch44
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Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
That doesn't answer the OPs question.

Every Ivy Bridge Mobile processor and all but one Desktop model come with the IGP. (the i5-3550P is the exception)

Apple isn't worried about battery/performance levels in the iMac, so there is no GPU switcher provided, but the IGP is present, just not used.
What does it matter if it's not present or if it's present but inaccessible? The end result is you can't use it.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 10:59 AM   #15
kaellar
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
I believe the use of QuickSync is independent of whether the IGP is used for video output or not. Also, if I am not mistaken, QuickSync extends the CPU instruction set to provide some specialised encode/decode commands. I have no idea how it is actually implemented though.
I can't say for sure is it independent in Mac OS X, but in Windows it actually depends on what GPU are you using, trust me.
And you're wrong about CPU instruction set. QuickSync is a logical block which is the part of HD Graphics GPU and is responsive for video decoding/encoding, pretty much like AMD UVD (can't remember the name of nVidia's analog), but much more efficient.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 11:13 AM   #16
leman
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Originally Posted by kaellar View Post
I can't say for sure is it independent in Mac OS X, but in Windows it actually depends on what GPU are you using, trust me.
And you're wrong about CPU instruction set. QuickSync is a logical block which is the part of HD Graphics GPU and is responsive for video decoding/encoding, pretty much like AMD UVD (can't remember the name of nVidia's analog), but much more efficient.
Ah, ok. I was slightly confused by this quote (this is from the interview with an Intel manager, see here: http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/f303...re-120002.html)

Quote:
DHT: Does Intel Quick Sync differ from other GPU-based encoding acceleration solutions on the market today such as NVIDIA's CUDA or AMD's Accelerated Parallel Processing? Or is it basically the same thing?

ELLIS: "Intel Quick Sync Video differs greatly from alternative solutions. Intel has expanded the widely available x86 instruction set to include new functions capable of parallelizing and accelerating high-quality video transcoding - rather than attempting to expand a separate graphics architecture to offload functions otherwise executed by the CPU."
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:42 PM   #17
diablo9333
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Thanks for all the responses. Just to clarify...I own a Macbook 2008 White model at the moment. I am entirely aware of the non-upgradable graphics as all of the graphics are integrated. I appreciate all of the responses and yes I don't see a big issue with the models not having it, with dedicated graphics already installed it isn't that big of a problem. Just ordered my 21" iMac with completely maxed out specs(that's right. Fusion Drive, Core i7 with Turboboost 3.9 Ghz, and 16 GB RAM). I'll probably Geekbench it when it arrives. Looking forward to it.
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