Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:39 AM   #101
Ted Witcher
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinsbb17 View Post
I can't wait until Apple announces the location of this new plant. It'll be in a right to work state with relatively low tax rates. The hipster, union-thug, and elitist lefties will be in a tizzy.
What the **** does this post mean, exactly? "Hipster union-thugs"? What is that?
Ted Witcher is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:41 AM   #102
Akarin
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nyon, Switzerland
Will these 200 jobs located in the US make the price of Mac computers go up by 20%?
__________________
Teach yourself web development, from novice to employable, for free: HowToCode.io
Akarin is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:41 AM   #103
Ted Witcher
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post
I am looking at the photo of those Chinese women in clean suits assembling the computers. I just can't picture Americans doing that day in and day out. They will get bored. No offense intended.
Yeah, Americans have never done assembly-line work, or even anything tedious, ever... like, in the whole history.
Ted Witcher is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:45 AM   #104
faroZ06
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy Bill View Post
Those of you throwing accolades at Apple for 200 jobs crack me up. This is nothing more than a PR stunt and if you can't recognize that than you're even more delusional than I thought.
That is, if 200 is a real number. People here are saying that the source of this info is pulling the number out of its butt, but let's just wait and see.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Witcher View Post
What the **** does this post mean, exactly? "Hipster union-thugs"? What is that?
People who claim that all businesses are stealing their money and jobs. It's always funny to see some protestors complaining that the banks crashed the economy and that the banks should be dead, then a bank does die and hurts the economy more. It's also funny when they're all using iPhones

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akarin View Post
Will these 200 jobs located in the US make the price of Mac computers go up by 20%?
Probably not. Apple sells stuff at market price, which is always significantly more than it costs for them to research and make the products. They're not Amazon.

Last edited by faroZ06; Dec 8, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
faroZ06 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:58 AM   #105
fastlanephil
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Witcher View Post
What the **** does this post mean, exactly? "Hipster union-thugs"? What is that?
I met a professional union organizer that had a black belt and hands that looked like hams.

But I'm sure it was just a hobby.
fastlanephil is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 10:59 AM   #106
tmroper
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Palo Alto
The workers in the picture have pretty cool looking hats.
tmroper is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:03 AM   #107
iGrip
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Send a message via ICQ to iGrip Send a message via AIM to iGrip Send a message via MSN to iGrip Send a message via Yahoo to iGrip Send a message via Skype™ to iGrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregintosh View Post
Distribution of surpluses isn't a problem that needs to be "fixed" - it happens naturally. Those who know how to put together a company and produce value already get good rewards. Capitalism is the fairest, yet most cold hearted, system. But the key is it is fair as those who produce get the most. It is only when commies interfere and start picking winners and losers that things get messed up.

Business owners take on the risk, therefore, they get the biggest rewards. There is 0 risk in being an employee. You show up and get a paycheck for your time. There is never a situation where you go to a job and it turns out you actually now owe money rather than have made money. Yet, this is a reality for people who get into business.

That is why in order to motivate people to build businesses they have to be given disproportionally large rewards. If it weren't for the possibility of extremely high pay offs much above what I can earn on a job, for example, would have just gotten a job instead of building my business (which employs 50 people).



They will have to re-educate themselves and find something else to do. It is not our responsibility to do anything for them. They have to do things for themselves. They are certainly not entitled to reap the benefits of someone else's system and capital just because they lost out on work because of it.



So you want to punish people who have full time jobs by forcing them to take on less hours and less pay? I wonder how someone who works hard to put food on their table will react if you tell them they need to take a pay cut and work less (even though they want to work as much as they can) so that their neighbor could have some too. I don't think they'd react too kindly.

A tax on production machinery? That's insane. What will happen then is the machinery will just go back overseas.

Business owners like me do not see it as our responsibility to make sure that people have good jobs with benefits. I see it as my responsibility to make as much money as I can for myself. That's why I got into business. Providing jobs and enriching others is just a necessary byproduct of my own selfish pursuit of wealth. Give me crappy cards like high taxes and mandates and I will go somewhere where I will be dealt a better hand.



The solution is to encourage people to get better educations and learn how to create value. It is not to confiscate the rewards business owners earn through their hard work and redistribute it. Your commie none sense is what leads to increased poverty and less opportunities around the world.

It does not matter if you don't have as much as someone else, what matters is your quality of life. Thanks to capitalism even the poorest in countries like the United States enjoy fast computers with the internet, big flat screen TVs with HD channels, and even cell phones that let them communicate from anywhere. That's already a higher quality of life than even the wealthiest people had just 50 years ago.

I saw Elvis Presley's house in Memphis Tennessee and all he had for a TV was a small black and white CRT TV. That's all that existed in his day. Most of us on this forum if not all of us have much better TVs at home today and yet none (or few) of us are as fabulously wealthy as Elvis was.

Key here is to stop looking at what others have and enjoy what you have. The way the economy works is that those who create value for others earn the most money. So if some are getting super rich that means the quality of life is improving for everyone.

Apple is only super wealthy as a company because they made products that improved the quality of all of our lives and changed them forever. In fact, it is only thanks to Apple's products that many people have jobs at all. I am talking about the iOS developers, small time video editors, photographers, etc. who all rely on Apple's software to let them do their work.

So rather than focusing on taking what's in Apple's bank account and redistributing it (therefore, sending a message to anyone thinking about changing the world like Apple did that if they are successful they will be targeted) we should be focusing on creating more Apple's.

Again, if someone is becoming ultra rich that means that many people are being positively affected by what they are doing (otherwise people would not be throwing money their way). So get out of their way and let them continue their work!

You make a number of good and cogent points. I'm not certain that we disagree as much as you might think that we do.

I think, however, that you are missing a couple of important points.

IMO, we are at or near some kind of economic inflection point, much like the ones I cited in a previous post. I think that at such points, old ways of doing things need to be modified if the status quo has any hope of retaining power. IM(cynical)O the ground ceded by the status quo at other points was necessary to prevent larger losses, up to and including bloody armed revolution (like in France, or Russia, or gosh, like we had here twice in the last 200 years).

Laissez Faire capitalism is not sustainable. Regulated capitalism is the best economic system anybody has ever tried. The devil lies in the details, and I think that rational people differ in opinion only in regard to the details.

Your point about reeducation is something I agree with wholeheartedly. But if you have millions and millions of angry uneducable unemployed societal rejects living in the streets, well, then, eventually you have bigger problems. IM(C)O.
iGrip is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:07 AM   #108
derbladerunner
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
At best, this is a pilot run to test whether bringing back some manufacturing is possible. At worst, this is a PR stunt to appease politicians and the public with a quick headline. Foxconn has well over a million employees in China, the Apple PR was about 200 jobs...go figure.

Many problems remain:

- These are mostly low paying assembly jobs, over time more and more work will be done by robots. Foxconn is installing more robots as we speak, even in China:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-575...place-workers/

- Supply chain remains in Asia. This only looks like end assembly to me. Virtually all the components are made in Asia. Cook of course only mentioned the exceptions to the rule in the NBC interview (Corning glass made in Kentucky...)

- US and western world lost manufacturing, supply chain skills in education. Look at skilled engineers per capita vs Asia. Most students in recent years wanted to get into finance or get an MBA, get-rick-quick...this is now hurting Western economies and can't be changed overnight.
derbladerunner is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:20 AM   #109
e-coli
macrumors 68000
 
e-coli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMI View Post
Or they may be cheap Chinese labor shipped here to work legally for much less money.

Unless those jobs go to American citizens, I'm merely intrigued, and not yet impressed. This needs to be more than a clever PR move.
Any company hiring in the US is subject to the minimum wage laws.
e-coli is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:28 AM   #110
sseaton1971
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by strausd View Post
This is definitely just going to be the Mac Pro.
Because of customers wanting to customize the Mac Pro, I think you are right. Plus, what other line would require so few employees for assembly? Because Mac Pros are so much bigger (at least the current model... who knows what Apple has planned for the promised 2013 update), it might make more sense from a shipping persepctive. I know nothing about shipping and related costs... I am just speculating.

As for those complaining that Apple will only create what some analysts are saying will be 200 jobs... First, it might be much more; second, it is a start; and third, Apple has created thousands of jobs in this country already either directly or indirectly... design, OS X/software, retail, components, third party app developers, etc. There has been a lot of valid criticism of Apple over the years, but Apple's attempt to bring some manufacturing back to the U.S. and create some much needed jobs is not something Apple should be blasted for.
sseaton1971 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:30 AM   #111
anomie
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by yearofthe View Post
Better than no jobs.
Yeah, jobs uber alles!

But seriously, why is it better than no jobs? Do you really believe, there will EVER be enough jobs for everyone whoīd like to have one?
No way.
We donīt need jobs, we need life quality. And that quality should not depend on having a job or not.
Because there will never be enough of them. And where is the use of people applying for jobs they donīt really want only because they HAVE TO?
Just give them money to live and those who want more will find jobs they really like to do.
Motivated people are more effective anyway.
anomie is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:31 AM   #112
NT1440
macrumors G3
 
NT1440's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
The only reason this is happening is because our labor force has now weakened so much that they'll accept lower wages than living in this nation requires.

We're going to see plenty of manufacturing jobs come back, at less hours, less pay, little to no "benefits", and lesser working conditions. We are playing the race to the bottom (a system set up largely by the USA when it was beneficial at the beginning of globalization) and its come full circle.
NT1440 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:33 AM   #113
tdream
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akarin View Post
Will these 200 jobs located in the US make the price of Mac computers go up by 20%?
Maybe... to pay the wages that are expected.
__________________
rMacbook Pro 2.6 4G 32GB 3G 16GB iTouch 1G 32GB Mini 1.6 iPad 3 64GB
Moto G | Sony Vaio Flip 15A
tdream is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:37 AM   #114
NT1440
macrumors G3
 
NT1440's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdream View Post
Maybe... to pay the wages that are expected.
I think they're only going to do final assembly on custom build orders. The markup on those upgrades should cover even semi-decent wages no problem. Apple will just lower their earnings expectations slightly on that plant.
NT1440 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:46 AM   #115
tdream
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
I think they're only going to do final assembly on custom build orders. The markup on those upgrades should cover even semi-decent wages no problem. Apple will just lower their earnings expectations slightly on that plant.
Will they print Made in America or Assembled in America on those units?
__________________
rMacbook Pro 2.6 4G 32GB 3G 16GB iTouch 1G 32GB Mini 1.6 iPad 3 64GB
Moto G | Sony Vaio Flip 15A
tdream is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:55 AM   #116
koban4max
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Yup..Chinese owner owns American's ass.
koban4max is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:58 AM   #117
guzhogi
macrumors 68020
 
guzhogi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wherever my feet take me…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregintosh View Post
Distribution of surpluses isn't a problem that needs to be "fixed" - it happens naturally. Those who know how to put together a company and produce value already get good rewards. Capitalism is the fairest, yet most cold hearted, system. But the key is it is fair as those who produce get the most. It is only when commies interfere and start picking winners and losers that things get messed up.

Business owners take on the risk, therefore, they get the biggest rewards. There is 0 risk in being an employee. You show up and get a paycheck for your time. There is never a situation where you go to a job and it turns out you actually now owe money rather than have made money. Yet, this is a reality for people who get into business.

That is why in order to motivate people to build businesses they have to be given disproportionally large rewards. If it weren't for the possibility of extremely high pay offs much above what I can earn on a job, for example, would have just gotten a job instead of building my business (which employs 50 people).



They will have to re-educate themselves and find something else to do. It is not our responsibility to do anything for them. They have to do things for themselves. They are certainly not entitled to reap the benefits of someone else's system and capital just because they lost out on work because of it.



So you want to punish people who have full time jobs by forcing them to take on less hours and less pay? I wonder how someone who works hard to put food on their table will react if you tell them they need to take a pay cut and work less (even though they want to work as much as they can) so that their neighbor could have some too. I don't think they'd react too kindly.

A tax on production machinery? That's insane. What will happen then is the machinery will just go back overseas.

Business owners like me do not see it as our responsibility to make sure that people have good jobs with benefits. I see it as my responsibility to make as much money as I can for myself. That's why I got into business. Providing jobs and enriching others is just a necessary byproduct of my own selfish pursuit of wealth. Give me crappy cards like high taxes and mandates and I will go somewhere where I will be dealt a better hand.



The solution is to encourage people to get better educations and learn how to create value. It is not to confiscate the rewards business owners earn through their hard work and redistribute it. Your commie none sense is what leads to increased poverty and less opportunities around the world.

It does not matter if you don't have as much as someone else, what matters is your quality of life. Thanks to capitalism even the poorest in countries like the United States enjoy fast computers with the internet, big flat screen TVs with HD channels, and even cell phones that let them communicate from anywhere. That's already a higher quality of life than even the wealthiest people had just 50 years ago.

I saw Elvis Presley's house in Memphis Tennessee and all he had for a TV was a small black and white CRT TV. That's all that existed in his day. Most of us on this forum if not all of us have much better TVs at home today and yet none (or few) of us are as fabulously wealthy as Elvis was.

Key here is to stop looking at what others have and enjoy what you have. The way the economy works is that those who create value for others earn the most money. So if some are getting super rich that means the quality of life is improving for everyone.

Apple is only super wealthy as a company because they made products that improved the quality of all of our lives and changed them forever. In fact, it is only thanks to Apple's products that many people have jobs at all. I am talking about the iOS developers, small time video editors, photographers, etc. who all rely on Apple's software to let them do their work.

So rather than focusing on taking what's in Apple's bank account and redistributing it (therefore, sending a message to anyone thinking about changing the world like Apple did that if they are successful they will be targeted) we should be focusing on creating more Apple's.

Again, if someone is becoming ultra rich that means that many people are being positively affected by what they are doing (otherwise people would not be throwing money their way). So get out of their way and let them continue their work!
You bring up many valid points. However, there's a rub: how do we get the people play fairly? How do we get the CEOs to hire the best person for a specific job and not their wife's brother or someone who bribed the CEO into getting a job? There's been too many times where better off people get unfair advantages due to clout while some single parents work their butts off in 2 or jobs just so they can afford to put a roof over their kids' head & foo on the table.

In some ways, you are right that capitalism is the fairest, though heartless, system, but only if everyone plays fairly. Too many at the top have kept the bottom down.
guzhogi is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:58 AM   #118
champ01
Guest
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejobz View Post
200 jobs? That's a disgrace. Richest company in the world that doesnt even know what to do with its own money.

Bring all the jobs back to the US.
In 2010 244.000 jobs were created.

62.000 of those jobs are at MC Donalds.

Go America.
  0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:59 AM   #119
gijoeinla
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by swingerofbirch View Post
Both Steve Jobs and Tim Cook have stated that the reason manufacturing isn't done in the US is that we don't teach the skills in our schools anymore that are needed for these jobs. I've even heard them say that the education system would need to be reformed to bring manufacturing jobs to the US.

I have never understood this.

I in no way want to devalue to the service and work by people who work in manufacturing, but what are the skills they're talking about? Even if you had a background in engineering, you'd need the same on-the-job training for putting together an iPhone as anyone else.

Frankly, because this has always sounded like BS to me (and there perhaps is an angle of it I don't get), I was frustrated that Brian Williams didn't challenge Tim Cook when he repeated that famous explanation.

So, I started thinking to myself, if these are jobs which Americans are too ignorant to work at, presumably we'll be extending work visas to Chinese people who are educated in the ways of manufacturing to come to the US to work at this new factory.
Ignorance is bliss. Here is Los Angeles nearly ALL of the major schools like UCLA, USC, Cal State Northridge, etc etc etc -- Their engineering schools are ALL way north of a majority of Asians -- proportionately or not -- Chinese, Korean,etc. Whose at fault for that? Not one of my 22 cousins around college age have enrolled in engineering. My own father is an engineer.

Nobody is lying about this fact. America DOES NOT have ( at this time ) the skilled work set to make general CE production possible here.

I'm certain Apples announcement as well as others will begin a tide change.

If you think that laid off secretaries etc will somehow find their way in into CEM jobs -- DREAM ON.

Suddenly the term BACK TO SCHOOL has a whole new meaning.
gijoeinla is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:03 PM   #120
linuxcooldude
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post
It looks to me like a shallow PR move to make the headlines read "Apple Moves Factory Jobs to US". Maybe it's also a marketing experiment. 200 is not a serious number.
I see it as doing this on a small scale to see if its feasible to bring more manufacturing back to the U.S. Makes no sense doing it large scale if it does not work well enough.
__________________
Techshow:http://www.justin.tv/linuxcooldude
linuxcooldude is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:11 PM   #121
ChrisA
macrumors G4
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redondo Beach, California
Maybe Apple is planning to build the new "Apple TV Set" in the US. They could build then here if they used enough automation, robots and so on.

Or it might be some low-volume Mac.

I'm betting it will be a new product of some kind that sells in low volume.

One more guess. They always have done their refurbishing here in the US. Perhaps they will combine assembly andrefurbs in the same place?
ChrisA is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:16 PM   #122
ggoerl
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Great, now apple can charge more because their products are u.s. made....
ggoerl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:16 PM   #123
NT1440
macrumors G3
 
NT1440's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisA View Post
Maybe Apple is planning to build the new "Apple TV Set" in the US. They could build then here if they used enough automation, robots and so on.

Or it might be some low-volume Mac.

I'm betting it will be a new product of some kind that sells in low volume.

One more guess. They always have done their refurbishing here in the US. Perhaps they will combine assembly andrefurbs in the same place?
IF that was the case we'd be seeing a plan for massive collaboration with SHARP (makers of the IGZO displays that will be the new "it" thing for a few years). I haven't heard any rumblings yet, but I'll keep an ear open.
NT1440 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:17 PM   #124
gijoeinla
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by champ01 View Post
In 2010 244.000 jobs were created.

62.000 of those jobs are at MC Donalds.

Go America.
While its easy to assume that wherever you are located -- your local economy may seem still way off a cliff. Some education - here in Los Angeles -- construction of new buildings, new businesses, new infrastructure projects, home sales etc ARE THROUGH THE ROOF.

Case in point - home sales : Areas east of Los Angeles -- homes for sale currently have 30 sometimes 40 buyers submitting offers ThE SAME DAY or a day or two later after being listed on the market. And yeah - generally the homes are closing $10,20,30 grand over asking.

After a five year lull things HERE are heating up. Companies like Google are hiring here, tons of new start ups, Apple is rumored to be planning offices here.

Industries here are way healthier. The film industry is thriving again - theme parks here showed record attendance - while I'm not professing it's all bliss right now for all, at least in this market -- it's clear the downturn has now begun an upturn.

Seriously the area in the workforce that will experience huge growth is healthcare. Technology will clearly benefit from the potentially 30/40 million new people who might come into that system once Obamacare takes its effect.

Apple itself has hired a ********* of people here in Cali - just in the last year, I'm sure Google, Facebook etc have all done the same. We r in the midst of a paradigm shift in the workforce. It's this generations technological revolution
gijoeinla is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:21 PM   #125
NT1440
macrumors G3
 
NT1440's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hartford, CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggoerl View Post
Great, now apple can charge more because their products are u.s. made....
Yes, one small (borderline PR stunt) plant is going to drive up the prices on a multibillion dollar company across the board.
NT1440 is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC