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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:25 AM   #51
nagromme
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Originally Posted by DJAKO View Post
Ya, because games like GTA, Infinity Blade, EA Sports, Real Racing, etc aren't in the app store.
Not to mention, the games for AppleTV have not been been made yet, so saying that AppleTV (if it ever gets games) will be running the exact same popular titles as the iPad makes no sense. Whatever it can do, it whatever makes sense with the control scheme... people will build for it.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:27 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by derbladerunner View Post
Hmm, what can Apple bring to the table that the console trio (Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo) doesn't offer?

Wii U is nice (TVii and gamepad as second screen) and on the market. Sony/MS will release their 8th generation consoles in a few months also.

Especially MS' new console looks like a very strong contender in the living room, combined with Kinect and "Smartglass". They could also release a low-end version of their console (XBox TV):

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/18061...p#.UMX-c7aG-K4

Also, console HW is heavily subsidized. MS lost billions when they entered the market a few years ago. Don't know if Apple wants to go down that route and loose money on HW, would be a first for them.
They wouldn't target the hardcore gamer and wouldn't need to for it to succeed--just look at how well the Wii did the first couple years and the quality was crap. And the bones for the hardware is already in place--a slightly beefed up version of the existing TV with a bluetooth controller is all you'd need to be able to handle the most intensive games on the App Store. You could even leverage AirPlay/home sharing and the ability to use an iPad simultaneously (i.e. Wii U).

As mentioned, there are already good title available--add the ability to use a controller, especially on the shooters and you have very good games for a fraction of the price of console games. And, I can play the same game on ANY of my iDevices.

I personally hope it happens.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:28 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by derbladerunner View Post
Also, console HW is heavily subsidized. MS lost billions when they entered the market a few years ago.
It doesn't help the bottom line when you have to replace every console you sell 2 or 3 (or more) times (RROD).
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:30 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by CBJammin103 View Post
I just can't see Apple releasing a traditional gaming controller for the Apple TV. First party Apple gaming hardware just seems... odd. I can see games on the Apple TV in the relatively near future (read, next couple of gens of the Apple TV) but I can't see a traditional console competitor.

Hard to say though, since I can't imagine playing Angry Birds with an Apple TV remote is reasonable.
If you remember, one of the more exciting aspects of the '07 iPhone launch was that it was the first mainstream handheld device where all buttons (save Home) were virtual (aka: software-based). Meaning, the face of an iDevice can serve whatever function the code dictates. Need your smooth blank slate to be a phone? Done. Need it to be the internets? Done. Need it to be a camera? Done. Need it to be a game controller? En route.

And for more substantial games (read: not Angry Birds) that require a more substantial controller, enter 3rd party mania.

Last edited by lazyrighteye; Dec 10, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:39 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by derbladerunner View Post
Processing power is one thing, but the main problem for Apple (at $99 and turning a profit or break-even) is the GPU.

Console power for games is dependent on a powerful GPU, that's why most consoles sell at a loss and cost more.

Unless Apple streams the games or only does casual games like Angry Birds I don't see people choosing it over "traditional" consoles (Wii U, PS3, XBox).

On the other hand, console makers could release cheaper versions for audio/video and casual games (the rumored XBox TV).
I couldn't see the ATV competing with consoles on major console gaming titles (not initially at least), but Apple could still make a lot of money selling a €129 console with 89c - €4.99 games, up against €350+ consoles with €60 games. But there are a lot of games with a lot more content and depth than Angry-Birds type games.

Plus, you get the almost instant-on capability of the ATV versus the boot-up and loading of the 360/PS3.
Plus, you may be able to play your existing iPhone/iPad game library at no extra cost on the ATV (when updated for the ATV's resolution).

For me, the controller would be a bigger issue than the GPU. Using a touchscreen while looking at it is one thing, using a touchscreen while looking at a different screen would be very different. And if Apple didn't use a touchscreen input device, then what?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:45 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Arran View Post
Interesting.

The new Nanos have an accelerometer and now bluetooth. Could Apple update the Nano OS to include a game controller function?
That would be a really crappy controller IMO. Besides the aforementioned the aforementioned lack of tactile feedback, there is also very little space for controls and having to do everything with your thumbs (eg no shoulder buttons) makes more complicated games relatively awkward to control. (this latter limitation similarly plagues iPhone and iPad games)
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:52 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by DJAKO View Post
Ya, because games like GTA, Infinity Blade, EA Sports, Real Racing, etc aren't in the app store.
I agree that there are big gaming titles in the App store but all those are much more pleasurable to play with an actual controller, not a tough screen controller. For example playing FIFA is so much more enjoyable on an Xbox or PS3 controller than it is on an iPhone or iPad because I don't have to look down at the controls all the time
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:53 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by CrAkD View Post
Apple TV with 64gb of storage. A6X graphics and a Bluetooth game controller + App Store = RIP console market.
Lol, thanks for making me lough out loud and disturbing my neighbours, but no. Consoles will not die anytime soon, not now, not next year and not in the next 5 to 10 years. And if you don't believe me, there are millions of people who will tell you the same thing. If you think you can live without a console, that doesn't mean other people can. I had to give up on them because I don't have the time to play anymore. But if I want to game, I will certainly not do it on a iOS device.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 12:37 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Glassed Silver View Post
Yay for deprecated system functions that break older games...
Thanks, but no thanks, I'll stay on Windows and maybe consoles for REAL gaming.

Now casual games, that's something different.

Glassed Silver:mac
Define "real" gaming. After all, aside from a handful of flagship releases a year, the console selection has been tremendously dismal for the past 2 years. Also, after having burned out my THIRD Xbox 360 (and all of my friends telling me many horror stories about way-too-often and buggy PS3 firmware releases), I'm really not interested in throwing even more money on poorly-built consoles.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 12:49 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
All Apple need to do is create a "Controller App", just like the Remote App currently available.
Not really practical when put into practice. You have no idea where your fingers are positioned without constantly looking at your phone/pad.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:13 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
Another 'mess' up.
Not at all.nor is it a clue.

Apple has been doing these cross type categories or a while. In fact there is often at least one going at all times in the store. It's a marketing gambit. One that they are not blocking from Apple TV users because those folks typically either have an iDevice or an interest in one. So Apple exposes them to what serves those items to push sales.

Nothing more or less
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:27 PM   #62
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As others have said, this is about Apple creating the platform and then letting others take advantage of it. Apple TV support for keyboards is good, just need to add game controllers (if they aren't covered by the keyboards update). Then they add app support, sit back and see what happens.

The lack of processing power and storage on the Apple TV will be a limiting factor. But if the platform takes off they can do the same as they have with the other iOS products, bring out a new higher spec Apple TV and then keep the old model as the cheap option.

They wouldn't get anywhere near the hardcore market covered by the PS3 and Xbox 360, but I reckon the Wii / Wii U market would be well within their sights. Bump the spec of the Apple TV, add on some controller cases for iOS devices and you're pretty much got a Wii U except it does a lot more.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:46 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by CBJammin103 View Post
I just can't see Apple releasing a traditional gaming controller for the Apple TV. :
They want the iDevices to be the controllers. And since you have the device, which can play the game already, why have it on the STB. AirPlay can, if the developers include it, display the game to the TV just fine with added tricks like 4 players on the screen or controller modes on the device. Or you can just mirror your own device.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diiiiips View Post
Besides games what apps would be useful on Apple Tv? I can't think of any.
Those that are strictly media playback can work also, often better than games even. Hulu, BBC player etc.

Honestly I don't see them doing anything other than these type of things with the Apple TV

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post
Lolwut?

Yeah... That Xcode man. Horrible. Apple better find somebody that knows how to create development tools for iOS devices.

Said nobody... Ever.
He's talking about emulators, APIs etc.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:47 PM   #64
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To say a potential controller using the an iDevice will be inferior to current alternatives is shortsighted to say the least. Just because Sony want to regurgitate the same control format used by the SNES 22 years ago doesn't mean it's the only way to do things and just because you can't imagine a better controller doesn't mean there aren't developers out there who can. Ironically, it's probably the same people complaining about not having the familiar controller who insist that the iOS UI needs a complete overhaul just because it's been largely unchanged for a few years...

As for those eluding to inferior processing power - I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of man to use the iDevice as a co-processor... Just a thought...
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:56 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
All Apple need to do is create a "Controller App", just like the Remote App currently available.
Actually they don't. Part of the value of the current iOS system is that I can take my game with me because its on my iDevice. AirPlay support with a controller mode is a smoother switch over than having two games and a separate controller app. And the developers have full control over the controller. With a separate controller app they are limited to what Apple puts in it.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAkD View Post
Apple TV with 64gb of storage. A6X graphics and a Bluetooth game controller + App Store = RIP console market.
Not really since there are dozens of popular games that are console exclusive. Until we can play those games on iOS 'legally' the consoles will stick around

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamGabbay View Post
I hate to be "that guy", but...

I wouldn't read so much into it. iTunes store probably just got tangled up with the store on Apple TV. All those rectangular images are vectorized so they would appear and fit on the Apple TV screen no problem.
The iTunes Store IS the store on the Apple TV.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerc2 View Post
Wouldn't it be an issue that the current AppleTV's only have something like 8GB of flash storage for caching? I have an AppleTV 2, and I'm sure the 3 is the same (feel free to correct).
So they add more storage, something they should do for basic caching, holding rentals etc anyway

I would love a bigger storage and the ability to auto download TV eps so they are ready to view without having to wait for buffering. Or I can buy a movie on my iPhone but have it go to my ATV for when I get home and so on

Last edited by charlituna; Dec 10, 2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:57 PM   #66
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I hate to put a damper on all this excitement about the possibility of an Apple game console, but this might have just been a simple mistake in the app store.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:59 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Not really practical when put into practice. You have no idea where your fingers are positioned without constantly looking at your phone/pad.
Many games are swipe based and don't even require you to swipe in a particular spot. Or use the gyro etc.

Or those that need tactile feedback there are already like ten Bluetooth controllers for developers to work with.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:04 PM   #68
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Hmm this could be that rumored update for the Apple TV that's coming out either tomorrow or next Tuesday.

Exclusive companies like EA will have first launch games on Apple TV. Apple will also offer some of their apps on the Apple TV.

I think its finally coming - iOS apps on Apple TV!
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
TV ... coming to a living room near you in 2013.
Many are no doubt foaming at the mouth, at the idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
Very unlikely. People want to play more than Angry Birds on a console.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diiiiips View Post
Besides games what apps would be useful on Apple Tv? I can't think of any.
If an APPLE Tv/Game Console materializes some time in the future, gazillions of Apps will come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post
Lolwut?
Yeah... That Xcode man. Horrible. Apple better find somebody that knows how to create development tools for iOS devices.
.....
LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugbug View Post
NFL rewind, Crackle, ABC, etc etc
Etc, etc, x1000, Thank you!

The forerunner to the rumored APPLE TV perhaps?
Here's another interesting angle: http://www.techradar.com/news/comput...nalyst-1103779
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:21 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by jackal123uk View Post
To say a potential controller using the an iDevice will be inferior to current alternatives is shortsighted to say the least. Just because Sony want to regurgitate the same control format used by the SNES 22 years ago doesn't mean it's the only way to do things and just because you can't imagine a better controller doesn't mean there aren't developers out there who can. Ironically, it's probably the same people complaining about not having the familiar controller who insist that the iOS UI needs a complete overhaul just because it's been largely unchanged for a few years...
The gameplay may not be the ultimate solution, but there are quite obvious problems with trying to using an iPhone to control something complex on the TV. Ones which no amount of software is going to solve.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:24 PM   #71
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Well the A6 has three GPUs. The Xbox 360's GPU was hardly cutting edge when it was released in November 2005. Considering advances in technology 7 years later, I don't know if the A6 doesn't have more powerful GPUs than the Xbox360.

Is there any sort of traditional FPS calculation being done to compare the A6 to other computers for gaming purposes?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:29 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by derbladerunner View Post
.....Also, console HW is heavily subsidized. MS lost billions when they entered the market a few years ago. Don't know if Apple wants to go down that route and loose money on HW, would be a first for them.
Yes, MS pumped tons of cash into propping up the XBox, hoping that in the end it would pay off; however this is where APPLE has the advantage by already having the tv. All they have to do is put in a serious processor, decent RAM and storage and they could still beat Sony PS and XBox at price point. And with APPLE's installed iOS base, there's no doubt in my mind, development for 'such' an tv would come. See also ctdonath and CrAkD below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
Millions of TVs already in living rooms not occupied by other consoles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAkD View Post
Apple TV with 64gb of storage. A6X graphics and a Bluetooth game controller + App Store = RIP console market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAkD View Post
Apple won't focus on competing. They will just provide the tools and forget about it. Developers will pick up on it. So if its a success great but there don't be any backlash if it doesn't work cause the Apple TV will still do all it's normal functions perfectly.
Yes, everything to gain, and not much to lose.
It seems this is a potential market they can not and should not ignore.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:09 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by CrAkD View Post
Apple TV with 64gb of storage. A6X graphics and a Bluetooth game controller + App Store = RIP console market.
Yup. Everyone thinks Movies and TV with Apple TV. Actually, quite normal.

How many living rooms have Consoles? Ooops, didn't see that coming say Microsoft, and Sony.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:31 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Not really practical when put into practice. You have no idea where your fingers are positioned without constantly looking at your phone/pad.
Well, on a touchscreen would be a start....perhaps with user adjustable directional pad and buttons? Who knows! Just throwing ideas around...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Actually they don't. Part of the value of the current iOS system is that I can take my game with me because its on my iDevice. AirPlay support with a controller mode is a smoother switch over than having two games and a separate controller app. And the developers have full control over the controller. With a separate controller app they are limited to what Apple puts in it.

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Not really since there are dozens of popular games that are console exclusive. Until we can play those games on iOS 'legally' the consoles will stick around

----------



The iTunes Store IS the store on the Apple TV.

----------



So they add more storage, something they should do for basic caching, holding rentals etc anyway

I would love a bigger storage and the ability to auto download TV eps so they are ready to view without having to wait for buffering. Or I can buy a movie on my iPhone but have it go to my ATV for when I get home and so on
Perhaps you misunderstood...of course you can continue to play games on your idevice when out and about, but with this solution...designed for the living room, the user downloads a (in this case) game to their Apple TV and uses the device to play it, connected to Apple TV via Bluetooth. Nothing to do with AirPlay! The app runs natively on the Apple TV. A controller app (or modified Remote App) can be configured by the user to whatever makes playing easier. Or, there is no reason the game can't send control button info to the controller app, specifically for that game.
Edit: plus, with iCloud support for gaming progress, one can just play on the big screen, then pick up on the device only, later (on a train or something), exactly were they left it!
----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfdad View Post
About time they get serious the gaming business is a billion dollar field.

THink for a second.

Apple TV with 16 / 32 / 64 gigs of storage 3 price points.
A6 Processor 1 gig ram

Free Apple Controller APP for iphone, itouch and ipad that works as a remote with the Apple TV. Apple TV can work like a Wii-U as well. Two players One on TV and one on the iPhone or iPad screen airplay synching.

A6 Processor 1 gig ram
Apps $0.99 through 19.99 (Killer feature)

Optional Bluetooth controller that is identical in layout and buttons to free app. So you can choice.

$149.99 for the Apple TV / Game console...
Activate with iCloud and allows you to stream / play your music while you game as well.

This would without a doubt make a major dent in the Game market...
I like this idea! If some of the members here had their way we would all still be wired to everything. Plus it's amazing how posts stating, " oh, where would you know where to touch the screen to control it', are so prehistoric! It can be tailored for each game individually. Game devs would be required to submit a controller app layout which is sent to the device upon startup....the user familiarises themselves with this and off they go to play! WiiU requires the user to occasionally look away from the screen and use the controller screen, so why not here too?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 03:37 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
Well, on a touchscreen would be a start....perhaps with user adjustable directional pad and buttons? Who knows! Just throwing ideas around...

----------



Perhaps you misunderstood...of course you can continue to play games on your idevice when out and about, but with this solution...designed for the living room, the user downloads a (in this case) game to their Apple TV and uses the device to play it, connected to Apple TV via Bluetooth. Nothing to do with AirPlay! The app runs natively on the Apple TV. A controller app (or modified Remote App) can be configured by the user to whatever makes playing easier. Or, there is no reason the game can't send control button info to the controller app, specifically for that game.
Edit: plus, with iCloud support for gaming progress, one can just play on the big screen, then pick up on the device only later (on a train or something)
----------



I like this idea! If some of the members here had their way we would all still be wired to everything. Plus it's amazing how posts stating, " oh, where would you know where to touch the screen to control it', are so prehistoric! It can be tailored for each game individually. Game devs would be required to submit a controller app layout which is sent to the device upon startup....the user familiarises themselves with this and off they go to play!
Adjusting the layout of the buttons isn't going to help. You still can't see them when you're looking at the TV. And of course you can't feel where here they are. And even if you could, the lack of shoulder buttons has always been a problem for more complex games. Controlling an FPS game, for instance, is comparatively clumsy on the iPhone mostly for this reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
WiiU requires the user to occasionally look away from the screen and use the controller screen, so why not here too?
The Wii U controller has physical buttons and analog sticks in addition to the screen. Those are what you use when not looking at the controller screen.
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