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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:32 AM   #26
Ice Dragon
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Originally Posted by Bug-Creator View Post
If everyone (in the US) would live on the same mindset the US economy would have a short burst only to fall even deeper afterwards when it got even less competive...

I'll buy a car Made in Germany the very day it offers better value than one Made in France/Japan/Korea.

With trend as they are I will buy a car Made in China (unthinkable atm) long before I'd buy one Made in USA (not even those carrying german brands).

Or in short, proctectism is a 100% guaranteed way for complete economic failure.
I see what you are saying though I think you are kind of missing what I am saying also.

In what will soon be 2013, people shouldn't only buy stuff made in America, by Americans, of only American made materials, and not buy anything anywhere else just because it is made in a different country.

What I am saying is, limit the buying of stuff from department stores made in third world countries where slave labor is used while the rich only get richer while the unemployment lines go larger.

The biggest example is Wal Mart. I don't hate Wal Mart because I still do sometimes shop there but not for a lot. Sometimes they have some produce that other supermarkets near me are out of. In terms of clothes though, that's the biggest thing that annoys me.

You save a small amount by buying a pair of jeans there or at a mall, they're made cheaply, sold at a high price, and fat cats get richer and richer. The middle class suffers.

It goes way deeper than you think and I don't want to send across a message that is almost Stephen Colbert like full of bald eagles and red, white, and blue bs. It is not meant to be that way at all.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 11:50 AM   #27
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War is Hell, but not to the bottom line.

OK, I'll leave quietly.
Agreed, but I'd add that while war is excellent for corporate profits, it is bad for an economy and on a society not based on world conflict, which is what we should be shooting for.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:18 PM   #28
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My company is a leading maker of Optical Sorters used for food.

EVERYONE on reads this has eaten something that went though one of our machines.

And it is about 80% by weight built in the US.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 04:16 PM   #29
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There is lots of stuff made in the States, however tens of millions of domestic manufacturing jobs have evaporated overseas.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 01:14 PM   #30
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I am more lax on technology. For example, I don't mind buying Samsung memory and they make their stuff in Korea (being a Korean company of course). Clothes, tools, etc. I prefer American.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 03:07 PM   #31
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Gibson guitars comes to mind but I wish they stayed in Kalamazoo, Michigan but that's for another thread.

It's great to know though that an amazing 11 million people are employed, we're still the world's #1 manufacturer, and that there is incredible innovation like the TV special's last company Willow Garage who builds personal home robots.
Kalamazoo

My "home" town
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 03:40 PM   #32
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Gibson guitars comes to mind but I wish they stayed in Kalamazoo, Michigan but that's for another thread.

It's great to know though that an amazing 11 million people are employed, we're still the world's #1 manufacturer, and that there is incredible innovation like the TV special's last company Willow Garage who builds personal home robots.
Made in anywhere is good, including Kalamazoo, but, made by a company in which the CEO isn't a self-absorbed billionaire is even better.

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Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
Funny I was talking to some English people just the other week, about the Kraft takeover of Cadbury, and they didn't have a good word for it, lying bastards was mentioned at least twice.

Chocolate that tastes like plastic was also mentioned more than once.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...es-200-uk-jobs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-company.html
Honestly, I think the criticism of the Kraft-Cadbury merger is completely misguided. The companies are perfect for each other. Plastic cheese, plastic chocolate. That is what they call "synergy" in MBA programs. I would prefer quality Belgian or Swiss chocolate any day.

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There is lots of stuff made in the States, however tens of millions of domestic manufacturing jobs have evaporated overseas.
Hundreds of millions of jobs for below-average people have disappeared worldwide. The world needs a strategy to put young unemployed men to work. (Women, too, but, young women don't start wars nearly as often.)

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I am more lax on technology. For example, I don't mind buying Samsung memory and they make their stuff in Korea (being a Korean company of course). Clothes, tools, etc. I prefer American.
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
Kalamazoo

My "home" town
Too bad about Gibson. Hopefully the CEO will get bored and retire. In the meantime, we live in a global economy whether we like it or not, but, every country has to deal with its own unemployed. Every country needs a strategy to deal with unemployment, but, unemployed young men in Afghanistan or any other remote country may become a threat to world peace, so, it becomes everyone's problem.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 04:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Hundreds of millions of jobs for below-average people have disappeared worldwide. The world needs a strategy to put young unemployed men to work. (Women, too, but, young women don't start wars nearly as often.)
compared to the amount wars started by men employed as politicians above the age of 50, young unemployed men don't look hell bent on starting wars

they just have the bad luck to be the first who get _sent_ there by the former
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:47 AM   #34
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This might be of interest. Anyone in the US attempting similar?

http://britishfamily.co.uk/
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:50 AM   #35
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This might be of interest. Anyone in the US attempting similar?

http://britishfamily.co.uk/
First off thanks a lot for the heads up, I'll not be trying this myself, but I will follow their progress online.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:21 PM   #36
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This might be of interest. Anyone in the US attempting similar?

http://britishfamily.co.uk/
Clothes, tools, linens, drinkware... anything I can buy I buy American.

Food is semi different issue since I enjoy fruit such as cherries (currently are available in grocery stores here from Chile) and blueberries (from Argentina) and I am not about to avoid them because they are not American.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:47 AM   #37
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Right now I would imagine there are few airlines that wish they had not bought 'made in the USA' Dreamliner.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:24 AM   #38
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Right now I would imagine there are few airlines that wish they had not bought 'made in the USA' Dreamliner.
I'd imagine that when you spend a couple hundred million dollars on such an aircraft they should come with some type of warranty, and any safety "recall" should be covered? Scary
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:15 AM   #39
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As for the quality of the guitars, the smart choices for sticking with top selling items, and rebuilding a company that got fat and comfortable, the CEO is a genius. From a person who knows him really well, they told me he was "mercurial". Though not the traditional type of person to run a musical instrument business with the pulse of the player in mind, he had a way of knowing what the market wanted next year before anybody else. But he's not the guy you want to ride in the elevator with and he loves the management by walking around concept. He seems to operate on having the workers be on edge and there are so many parallels to this guy and the guy who once ran Apple. When he passes on or retires, a bio of him will have more similarities to Steve Jobs than anybody who ever ran a company.
Sounds like a dangerous form of egomania. A common trait in CEOs.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 10:49 AM   #40
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Sounds like a dangerous form of egomania. A common trait in CEOs.
This guy, more than any other CEO in America, was most closely compared to Steve Jobs.

Nobody will say that Gibson's CEO didn't know what was best because since the 1960s, Gibson could never quite find their way until he came on and saved the company. I will forever be grateful that Gibson is still there because of him, but I am more grateful that I never had to work for him or anybody like him.

His style of management did catch up with him and of all companies that cut corners on wood tariffs which is basically all of them, he was naturally an easy target with his attitude. It's not smart to tell tax collectors sod off, whether they be from the USA but especially from a major trading partner like India. What started with a tariff issue turned into demonizing the CEO for cutting down rainforests which is actually quite the opposite with Gibson being the first to offer rainforest friendly guitars. Hindsight is 20/20 but there were so many ways he could have played the rosewood tariff debacle without taking his own company to the cleaners but pride comes before the fall. I hope Gibson stays relevant and that maybe he learned something from this all.

Steve Jobs maybe learned something for being fired from Apple. He came back a business man first, and then a visionary. You could spend all the money for something nobody wants or can afford, like Lisa, but in the end Scully with his hairbrained ideas of making more than you spend ended up being the better model for Apple. Steve Jobs later recalled that his biggest mistake was thinking Apple was a hardware company, then a software company. When he came back he was armed with the seeds of OS X and user interface being king, and he turned the company around. When he wanted to make Apple a phone company but lost out to Steve Wozniak's concept of a computer company, he was able to wait it out and then launch iPhone, which with iOS and related stuff, rakes in 80% percent of Apple's income these days. When everybody was talking Mac, Steve Jobs knew that consumer electronics was the future of Apple, not taking on Dell and Microsoft head to head.

These latter readjustments from Steve Jobs are what he will be remembered for long after those who did business with him who knew and claim he was a difficult personality. I hope Gibson can save their legacy and the legacy of the CEO if he can re-adjust and bring back what made him able to save the company in the first place.

Last edited by 63dot; Jan 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 12:42 PM   #41
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Gibson tends to make most of their money from their cash cow, Epiphone. Epiphone guitars are in some cases better quality than Gibby's own. The defect rates in Gibson's electrics and acoustics have increased. Granted Epi's are made from laminated wood (some all solid on the higher priced ones) and Gibby uses solid wood.

Well after the two raids, they are now laminating rosewood to make fingerboards and bridges. On some guitars they use bakelite or other manmade woods, yet still charge the obscene about of money. Companies like Taylor, Martin, Guild, Breedlove, etc... well they don't mislable their wood, and they price their instruments according to the materials used and the appointments on the guitar.

Not the case with Gibson. Over priced period. The acoustics are redicously overpriced, and now even more because of the laminated materials they use and the poor quality control. As for electrics, same can be said, although the QC is a little better. Using richlite or bakelite and charging over the tops.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:47 PM   #42
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Yup. I buy local and American made as much as possible.
x2

I actively search out American Made versions of anything I buy. If I can get it made locally then I will, then drop to USA made, then default to whatever.

We just bought a living room set and when we walked in we told the sales guy that we only wanted to see items made in the USA. After he tried to talk us out of it I told him we wouldn't be using him for our purchase and we found a different sales person.

I am excited to hear that a USA made TV that is supposed to be pretty darn good is being made now. I want to find one of those.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:43 PM   #43
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Produce I have an issue with. A grocery store near me sells golden cherries from Chile and I am not about to give them up because they aren't American grown.

Furniture, electronics, etc. if you can show me some good spots to buy from and they are high quality. I am all interested!

I haven't given them a look because A. I don't have my own place B. I am still buying clothes.
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Old Mar 7, 2013, 01:27 PM   #44
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMTR-XTdExI <--- Found this on YouTube while doing a search. The US is not the only one doing it, Australia is as well.

Last edited by balamw; Mar 10, 2013 at 10:35 AM. Reason: embedded clip
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 02:49 PM   #45
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Yup. I buy local and American made as much as possible.
We do too. Latest was a livingroom set. Still waiting for the TV to come out. We buy a lot of local stuff also.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 07:20 AM   #46
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For anybody interested in the subject, and manufacturing, documentaries, etc...

Made in the USA

Talks about the manufacturing sector in the US and what is actually made here.
Then take a look at the web store The Made in America Online Store.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 01:24 AM   #47
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I'll buy a car Made in Germany the very day it offers better value than one Made in France/Japan/Korea.

With trend as they are I will buy a car Made in China (unthinkable atm) long before I'd buy one Made in USA (not even those carrying german brands).

Or in short, proctectism is a 100% guaranteed way for complete economic failure.
In the US many of the best selling cars are Made in USA, e.g. Hondas and Toyotas. German cars are great, but they are luxury products, and not really in direct competition with US-made vehicles. So cars may not the best example to argue against protectionism.

Among the countries you have mentioned, China, Germany and Korea are successful exporters and have large trade surpluses. Japan also traditionally has a large trade surplus. Let's have a look at a few of the economic policies of these countries.

China, as is well-known, practices competitive devaluation. It keeps its currency cheap to gain a competitive advantage. It also has a stiff trade policy: if you want to sell your goods in China first open a factory and/or make a transfer of technology to Chinese firms.

Germany practices competitive deflation by keeping wages down. Its government also subsidises industry by a combination of tax breaks, energy subsidies, and wage subsidies (wages go as low as 300 euro a month, and the govt pays the rest -- it seems this has now been raised to 450 euro).

Japan and Korea have long subsidised their industries to gain market share abroad.

So it seems a bit hard to make the case against protectionism given these examples. Welcome to the real world.
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Old Mar 12, 2013, 09:48 PM   #48
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http://www.examiner.com/article/can-...trict-be-saved
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 10:50 AM   #49
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Germany practices competitive deflation by keeping wages down. Its government also subsidises industry by a combination of tax breaks, energy subsidies, and wage subsidies (wages go as low as 300 euro a month, and the govt pays the rest -- it seems this has now been raised to 450 euro).
One should note that those extremly low wages are mostly paid in the fringes of the service sector not production. Hair-dressers, cleaning personal and watchmen probraly make up the bulk of those that earn so little for a "full" job (and even among those most wages will be more like twice that amount).

What is true that wages haven't adapted to increased productivity (hardly even inflation) in the past 10 years.

Most (non-temp) workers in export-oriented industries will still make 2000-4000Euro/month (pre-tax), the real problem is that those who are doing the same job as temp will often end up with a paycheck under 1500Euro even after putting some extra hours in and the fear of normal workers to be downgraded to temp-status by outsourcing tricks helps to keep them in check

There are offcourse other thinks that help us recover faster/better then most other countries like the short-labour program which allows companies to keep there fully trained employees at reduced hours during the crisis.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 12:51 PM   #50
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those extremly low wages are mostly paid in the fringes of the service sector not production. Hair-dressers, cleaning personal and watchmen
Yes but it's still an industry subsidy because it lowers the cost of living, thereby keeping the costs in other industries in check.
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