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Old Dec 10, 2012, 07:17 PM   #1
LeandrodaFL
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Haswell MacMini when? Before OS X 10.9?

Do you think we will get a Haswell MacMini with Mountain Lion or a OS upgrade will happen first?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 07:21 PM   #2
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The next Mac mini on iOS 8. Book it.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 07:37 PM   #3
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Depends when intel get haswell out the door.

It's not out yet, so speculating on Haswell Mac machines at this point is somewhat pointless until intel have a firm release date.

Intel are in no rush right now as AMD has nothing really competitive with Sandy Bridge, let alone Ivy Bridge.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 07:42 PM   #4
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Depends when intel get haswell out the door.

It's not out yet, so speculating on Haswell Mac machines at this point is somewhat pointless until intel have a firm release date.

Intel are in no rush right now as AMD has nothing really competitive with Sandy Bridge, let alone Ivy Bridge.
Yes but better to remain ahead of the game even if your competition is not even close to you.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 07:56 PM   #5
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Yes but better to remain ahead of the game even if your competition is not even close to you.
Sure.

Just don't expect them to go full speed ahead with volume production on a CPU that isn't required yet, even if the design is completed. Intel can take their time to make sure things are right, maybe spend a little more time on the GPU, drivers, etc...

There's no point in killing ivy bridge sales whilst it is still a competitive CPU. If there is no competitior, it makes sense for intel to slow the market down and maximize the return on investment for ivy bridge first.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:27 PM   #6
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Sure.

Just don't expect them to go full speed ahead with volume production on a CPU that isn't required yet, even if the design is completed. Intel can take their time to make sure things are right, maybe spend a little more time on the GPU, drivers, etc...

There's no point in killing ivy bridge sales whilst it is still a competitive CPU. If there is no competitior, it makes sense for intel to slow the market down and maximize the return on investment for ivy bridge first.
THIS and also if it ain't broke don't fix it.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:34 PM   #7
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Do you think we will get a Haswell MacMini with Mountain Lion or a OS upgrade will happen first?
No, and 10.9 is not important, because you get a free update to 10.9, if you buy a Haswell Mac.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:43 PM   #8
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There's no point in killing ivy bridge sales whilst it is still a competitive CPU. If there is no competitior, it makes sense for intel to slow the market down and maximize the return on investment for ivy bridge first.
I don't think it's just that. They've been extremely cautious since the Sandy Bridge recall last year. That cost them a lot of money.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 08:48 PM   #9
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I don't think it's just that. They've been extremely cautious since the Sandy Bridge recall last year. That cost them a lot of money.
Yeah, but that was chipset, not CPU.

edit:
And really, they haven't been extremely cautious really. They switched to 3d transistors on their volume product. They could have siwtched ATOM or something less complex first, but they didn't.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 09:13 PM   #10
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Yeah, but that was chipset, not CPU.

edit:
And really, they haven't been extremely cautious really. They switched to 3d transistors on their volume product. They could have siwtched ATOM or something less complex first, but they didn't.
I read about that a while ago, then nothing. I didn't know they went forward with that on Ivy. You're right ATOM would have been a more cautious move. I can think of a lot of possible reasons. I just don't know their absolute reasoning on anything. Ivy Bridge E5/E7 isn't even due out until the second half of next year.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 11:41 AM   #11
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The next hardware-platform update is usually every 500 days (check the update history of the Mini), so guess whether januari 2014 the next OSX will be ready?

Oh, and don't expect much from Haswell. It is the same nm process, so if they stuff in more transistors for the GPU, it will have to be compensated from the CPU otherwise the mini will melt. So estimate a 2Ghz quad haswell or a 3ghz dual core both with HD5000, both options will deliver less performance as the current quad Ivy. Does not make much sense right? I think they might even skip until Rockwell, the 16nm version of Haswell.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:20 PM   #12
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The next hardware-platform update is usually every 500 days (check the update history of the Mini), so guess whether januari 2014 the next OSX will be ready?

Oh, and don't expect much from Haswell. It is the same nm process, so if they stuff in more transistors for the GPU, it will have to be compensated from the CPU otherwise the mini will melt. So estimate a 2Ghz quad haswell or a 3ghz dual core both with HD5000, both options will deliver less performance as the current quad Ivy. Does not make much sense right? I think they might even skip until Rockwell, the 16nm version of Haswell.
Yeah, but you realize they are building haswell from the ground up to maximize power usage. You realize that the nm is only a portion of how a company can lower power usage/heat right? Further, in a lot of ways, by going to a smaller nm, it doesn't even necessarily mean less heat, because now you are cramming more transitions into a smaller area which can make it MORE difficult to cool. Seems as though you have equated smaller transister processes as the ONLY way to reduce heat. Finding ways to get processors in to lower power states faster, creative use of speed steps, grouping functions within the cores close together, etc. etc. can make a much greater impact to power savings.

Here's a wikipedia article for you to read, so you no longer trivialize what can be done on the engineering side...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 12:55 PM   #13
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AMD mght not be competitive right now, but they can't rest too much as ARM is making inroads into the industry.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:06 PM   #14
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:31 PM   #15
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You know, I hope the next MacMini is AMD, I would love to see Macs on AMD
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 01:57 PM   #16
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You know, I hope the next MacMini is AMD, I would love to see Macs on AMD

Why's that?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:13 PM   #17
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The next hardware-platform update is usually every 500 days (check the update history of the Mini), so guess whether januari 2014 the next OSX will be ready?

Oh, and don't expect much from Haswell. It is the same nm process, so if they stuff in more transistors for the GPU, it will have to be compensated from the CPU otherwise the mini will melt. So estimate a 2Ghz quad haswell or a 3ghz dual core both with HD5000, both options will deliver less performance as the current quad Ivy. Does not make much sense right? I think they might even skip until Rockwell, the 16nm version of Haswell.
I tend to look more at the factors involved in each release than an average of their dates. They skip minor changes. The 2011 mini showed up between early and late 2011 refreshes of the macbook pro. The mini basically followed the 13" macbook pro with the retention of Core2duo. They both skipped straight to Sandy. Right now this is basically conjecture. You're suggesting that given the lack of a change in core count, performance will be regressive. I would say they need the update due to the fact that the HD4000 still sucks. Even if the cpu is a flat upgrade, the gpu alone should warrant the change. If you tried to push it to Broadwell/Rockwell it would be much more than 500 days. They always allocate the earlier chips to the notebook line. Even if Intel speeds up their release cycle and ships by March or so, you're still looking at something like June on the minis. This is being somewhat generous on release dates. I don't think Apple will try to push it close to the two year mark, especially when they're reliant on integrated graphics. ^^Edit: note the silliness in my sig
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:41 PM   #18
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Why's that?
Because they can offer a CPU solution just as good as Intel's and a way better graphics solution. Moreover, Intel is kinda dicatating the evolution of techonlogy with 1 year releases and Apple has to obey Intel's plan/schedule. AMD is more flexible, Apple can pretty much order a new batch and start making 6 months releases

Intel is not in rush to release new tech. On the other hand, AMD has to constantly be inovating its graphics engine to compete with Nvidia graphics.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:55 PM   #19
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Because they can offer a CPU solution just as good as Intel's and a way better graphics solution. Moreover, Intel is kinda dicatating the evolution of techonlogy with 1 year releases and Apple has to obey Intel's plan/schedule. AMD is more flexible, Apple can pretty much order a new batch and start making 6 months releases

Intel is not in rush to release new tech. On the other hand, AMD has to constantly be inovating its graphics engine to compete with Nvidia graphics.

Having all of the Macs on Intel and then switching to AMD won't that cause issues for OSX? It seems simpler that Apple buys their CPU's from one source.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:42 PM   #20
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Having all of the Macs on Intel and then switching to AMD won't that cause issues for OSX? It seems simpler that Apple buys their CPU's from one source.
OS X can run on AMD.

As a matter of fact, Apple has OS X capable of running in ANY processor out there, and I quote Steve Jobs on this: "Just in case"

Besides, rummors for Apple switching to AMD has long been on the web, you can google it, I hope this happen.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:56 PM   #21
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Besides, rummors for Apple switching to AMD has long been on the web, you can google it, I hope this happen.
AMD CPUs = More heat & less performance.

No, thanks!
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:27 PM   #22
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OS X can run on AMD.

As a matter of fact, Apple has OS X capable of running in ANY processor out there, and I quote Steve Jobs on this: "Just in case"

Besides, rummors for Apple switching to AMD has long been on the web, you can google it, I hope this happen.
please not an and vs intel war,

the best thing about amd is graphics not cpu's but apple could own amd tomorrow they have the cash to buy them so far they have not. I do not know what that means but I am sure apple has already decided on what they will put in a mini..

I still wonder if apple is ever going to make a real tv a 40 or 50 inch model.

this link on sony's 4k tv has my interest


http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/d...8&NewsAreaId=2


since apple has had a 4k imac screen for years and rumors of apple build a new tv will they shot for a 4k smart tv?

if they do will it decrease mini purchases for ht?

I have a sony smart tv 46 inch with google the computer in it is a joke as is the keyboard interface. I use it as a tv and as a monitor for 1 mac mini and 4 pc's running bit coin. I wonder it a good 4k tv as a smart tv would sell. one thing for sure it will hurt the mini. have to wait to find out.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:41 PM   #23
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OS X can run on AMD.

As a matter of fact, Apple has OS X capable of running in ANY processor out there, and I quote Steve Jobs on this: "Just in case"

Besides, rummors for Apple switching to AMD has long been on the web, you can google it, I hope this happen.
Thanks I didn't realize that.
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