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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:25 AM   #76
swagi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
Apple has done a great job with Siri integration - navigating with your voice is better than Android or Garmin's offerings - and their take on turn by turn navigation with incorporated 3D views really has some nice advantages over their competitors. They've royally messed up the data in some areas, but they've built a compelling platform for the future.
Apple did not invent voice interaction with a navigational device nor did it work any good. Actually voice-based navigation has been around in cars for like...errr...decades.

And you obviously haven't used an Android device, as voice based search and Navigation is there since...errr....years. Just because you don't know how to use it doesn't mean it is not there (I know, it's harder to just press a Microphone button and speak the keywords you are searching for than chatting with Siri. Sorry - though S Voice seems to be on par I found it rather annoying to say "Hello Galaxy. Navigate me to...")
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:28 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Shin3r View Post
I guess I'm going to be the jerk here. So yes, apple has screwed up maps, but the bigger problem is that people are literally using maps as a stupid guide rather than for convenience. We should use our brains when going places we are unaware of and be aware of how to retrace our steps if we are wrong. But that's just me I guess.
If you typed in "Mildura" yesterday and showed the street view, there were _no_ streets. That should have been a giveaway if you wanted to go to the _town_ of Mildura which has lots and lots of streets. In the hyprid view, it looks to me like wilderness. Which would also have made me think.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:49 AM   #78
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If you typed in "Mildura" yesterday and showed the street view, there were _no_ streets. That should have been a giveaway if you wanted to go to the _town_ of Mildura which has lots and lots of streets. In the hyprid view, it looks to me like wilderness. Which would also have made me think.
Nobody needs streets.

Steve.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:51 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
If you typed in "Mildura" yesterday and showed the street view, there were _no_ streets. That should have been a giveaway if you wanted to go to the _town_ of Mildura which has lots and lots of streets. In the hyprid view, it looks to me like wilderness. Which would also have made me think.
In all fairness if you type in a city name in Australia in Apple Maps, a good number of them will look "like wilderness".

Sadly I think what's contributed to the issue is the general expectation that Apple Maps just isn't very detailed. So the intrinsic response to a "red flag" like this that someone would have on Google Maps just doesn't apply when using Apple Maps since a vast majority of the user experience would then be considered "red flags".

I think the ONLY solution really is for everyone to STOP using Apple Maps. The whole idea put forth by Apple apologists like yourself of "it's not Apple's fault if people are stupid enough to trust its products" is EXACTLY why people shouldn't be using them.

If Apple had any real integrity anymore it would put out a PRODUCT RECALL on Apple Maps and keep it away from the public until it's been "fixed". We expect that from car manufacturers, we expect that from food suppliers, we expect that from drug companies, it's funny how we don't expect that from software companies even when it's related to something as potentially dangerous as driving.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:00 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Millah View Post
"Lots?" Define lots. I don't see iOS users abandoning in droves. Hasn't the iPhone 5 boosted Apples marketplace for this quarter, indicating that people are in fact switching to the iPhone 5 from Android?
In Germany iOS has a marketshare of 19% (90% in 2008), Android 69% - and here you don't need market-research to see that people change towards Android. You just see it everyday on the streets. I actually don't know anybody switching towards iOS.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:06 AM   #81
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The only silver lining I hope comes out of all of this is that Cook is sincere and genuine about the whole "putting the weight of the company behind fixing Maps", and that in time (ASAP) Maps ends up being better than it might otherwise have been if it hadn't been so bad in the first place.

I really wish they'd launch some online reporting system where we could somehow see what sort of progress is being made. So even if corrections we are not seeing corrections we've reported being fixed, it would be possible to see something, rather than reported errors going into a black hole, and seemingly never being fixed.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:07 AM   #82
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Good job, Apple! Maps can't be fixed overnight. I'll gladly wait until iOS 7. Even before iOS 6, I never used the limited Google Maps, since it lacked turn by turn.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:08 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Moccasin View Post
In Apple's defence, if they did indeed use data from Tom Tom (or another company) - they don't have their own data - how has that company managed in Australia until now?
This is something I've wondered - its not as though TomTom are an unknown in the industry. They may not be top of the pile, but they've been a big player in the satnav industry for a good while, so it is kind of weird that their data has been as bad as this.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:14 AM   #84
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So if even the Australian Government can't get it right, why should Apple? And who would care about Mildura?

Apart from its relatively prosperous eastern shore, Australia is little more than a desolate mining colony anyway.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:14 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shurcooL View Post
Have you noticed how much better the map interaction inside Find Friends app became? Or how Siri can now give you turn by turn directions.

That was not possible before cuz Apple had their arms tied by the limiting Google maps contract.

Also, Apple Maps basically has Google Earth built-in. Sometimes it's pretty neat to see some place in 3D.

There are problems with the new maps, but there are improvements too. Most people seem not to notice them.
There's no 3D where I live. In fact, most of Tokyo is simply a grey mess and then a green mess. Yes, Tokyo, the largest city on the face of the planet, a city with more population than most countries on the map. Nothing helpful at all. Apple really really need to fix this app.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:14 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenu007 View Post
They should send Scott Forstall there as punishment.
Cruel and unusual punishment?

(Apologies to my Australian friends}

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrxak View Post
It's Antennagate all over again.
Step 1: Find a minor problem that exists in all similar products, that most users don't encounter.
Step 2: Write lots of articles about it online and in the press. Because it's Apple, it gets an inordinate amount of attention.
Step 3: Get the television media involved, because they're slow and only get their news from newspapers already in a panic.
Step 4: Get as many customers as possible to do something they'd never do in order to encounter the minor problem, making the problem appear widespread.
Step 5: Force Apple to apologize publicly, then criticize them for using reality as a defense.
Step 6: Get the fandroids to never shut up about it, and badmouth the Apple product everywhere on the internet.
Step 7: ???
Step 8: Apple still sells more of the product than they've ever sold before, since overall it's a superior product for most users in most situations.
This isn't minor, but just like 'scuff-gate', you do have a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTACORB View Post
Anyone stupid enough to just blatantly follow a map for miles and miles without having previously done a bit of checking is just down right stupid. I don't trust any of these mapping services and that includes Google. I have always when planning a trip checked out a few map sources and then compared it to what is in my Garmin. I've had Garmin maps take me off the beaten path before, but because I had actually looked I knew something was wrong. These mapping programs are simply meant as a guide and certainly shouldn't ever been used in place of common sense. Then again not everyone has common sense!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin3r View Post
I guess I'm going to be the jerk here. So yes, apple has screwed up maps, but the bigger problem is that people are literally using maps as a stupid guide rather than for convenience. We should use our brains when going places we are unaware of and be aware of how to retrace our steps if we are wrong. But that's just me I guess.
That is the plain truth, and the truth hurts sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
Have you not followed Apple's relationship with Google over the past couple years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrxak View Post
Google was using their Maps as a weapon against Apple in the Mobile Wars. Apple, not wanting to be dependent on a hostile competitor for a major service, with their customers clamoring for feature parity, did the only thing they could do. They're screwed either way since mapping takes time to get right, due to the complexities of incompatible reference points for local data, transforming a 3D mostly-spherical object onto a 2D plane, inaccuracies created by out-of-date and imprecise measurements done at different times with different tools and methods, and of course the imprecise nature of floating points in the digital environment. The world is a very big place, and mapping it on a computer isn't easy.

Faced with the choice between getting screwed over by Google for another year, or putting their customers through an error reporting process they'd need to do anyway to get more accurate map data, Apple made the logical decision to release Apple Maps sooner rather than later. It gets the necessary growing pains over with sooner.

Maybe you don't remember how bad Google's maps were in the beginning, or people just gave them more slack since it was a minor, experimental part of their business at the time (they used to be a web search company).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millah View Post
"Lots?" Define lots. I don't see iOS users abandoning in droves. Hasn't the iPhone 5 boosted Apples marketplace for this quarter, indicating that people are in fact switching to the iPhone 5 from Android? It's funny how a survey done showed something like 3/4 of iOS6 customers were "satisfied" with maps. Don't let the general press and blog community fool you into thinking that they resemble the voice of the majority. Most of the time it's a very loud and vocal minority who simply get heard over the vast majority of satisfied people. People who are always angry and nitpicky make the most noise, not people who are satisfied with their phone and instead just focus on using it rather than poking holes through it. I'm not saying Apples maps aren't flawed and in need of serious work. But only a minority have ACTUALLY experienced real problems while USING it in the real world. People in Australia being among them. But they aren't the majority of the 500 million iOS users. In Florida, I have yet to experience any issue, and I haven't heard a single friend complain. I've even discovered new stores that weren't in GMaps due to Yelp integration. It's a shame the GREAT things in Maps get thrown aside for all the negativity and sensationalism.
It seems GOOGLE practically forced APPLE to pursue their own mapping solution, by wanting to retain too much control as well as denying them access to turn-by-turn navigation. Adding to that the fact of APPLE's mapping contract with GOOGLE expiring in a year or so, I believe they definitely made the right decision to pursue their own solution. Depending for essential technology on competitors with whom you don't have the best of business relationships, is generally not good policy.

As bad as it is right now, for APPLE to have waited till that contract was up, the situation would have been worse. To get everything correct is truly a mind-bogglingly tedious task, that is virtually impossible without massive user input. The sooner they get this out of the way, the better. GOOGLE Maps was far from perfect in the beginning, and they've had a 7-8 year head start. APPLE will 'weather this storm', and given time, it will all work out. Let's hope Tim really meant it, when he said he'd "throw the full weight of the company behind fixing iOS6 Maps".
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:14 AM   #87
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alright...one fix in a month or after police warning...that's fast
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:15 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by BuckusToothnail View Post
This just goes to show "fixing" Apple Maps is a lot TOUGHER than people realize. Considering the worldwide negative publicity this is generating for Apple, if it was "easy" to fix it would have been done in the first hour.

Nearly two days have passed now and it's still not completely fixed, and they can't even change the LABEL of Mildura to show the correct location.

Now if it's THAT difficult and time-consuming to make this ONE seemingly easy correction which is generating global negative media coverage about endangering people's lives, then how quickly do you think Apple will respond to the everyday user corrections submitted to them by the THOUSANDS?

As I mentioned in another thread, I've submitted at LEAST a couple of dozen corrections to Maps the past few months since I got my iPhone 5 and NONE have been updated yet. And reading other people's post it doesn't seem my experience is uncommon.

In comparison the few times I needed to send a correction to Google Maps, all POI-related like a store having moved or being on the wrong side of the street, it was usually fixed within a couple of weeks.

Sadly it seems this whole "crowd sourcing" and "the more people use it the better it'll get" mantra is all just smoke-and-mirrors RUBBISH. What's the point of "crowd sourcing" if Apple isn't going to utilize the user data?
I like this part. The rate that Apple is correcting their maps error is dismal.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:21 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by coolspot18 View Post
Why in the world did Apple ditch Google Maps?

Seriously strange - I mean does Apple have a YouTube site, a Facebook clone, or what else? It's strange that they decided to ditch Google Maps.
?
Not so strange if you show a modicum of resourcefulness and look it up!
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:29 AM   #90
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It still shows up in the wrong location for me. At least based on the blue pin/red pin map in the article
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:31 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
So if even the Australian Government can't get it right, why should Apple? And who would care about Mildura?
Where do you have read that the Australian government can't get it right?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:38 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
So if even the Australian Government can't get it right, why should Apple? And who would care about Mildura?

Apart from its relatively prosperous eastern shore, Australia is little more than a desolate mining colony anyway.
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Originally Posted by johngordon View Post
This is something I've wondered - its not as though TomTom are an unknown in the industry. They may not be top of the pile, but they've been a big player in the satnav industry for a good while, so it is kind of weird that their data has been as bad as this.
Problem is that data isn't enough. That data needs to be interpreted. It sounds like Apple pulled together a number of data sources, and some of them are being misinterpreted.

If TomTom has a database of place names and coordinates, and Apple just take the first match to a regexp, they may pull the wrong one. Or maybe they got the street data from TomTom and the place almanac from public sources.

This really is a huge undertaking.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:45 AM   #93
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Just looked at info linked in the maps app.
Where it says 'Tomtom and others' it links to this page:
http://gspa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html

Then it shows for Australian and New Zealand data provided by MapData Services Pty ltd
http://www.mapds.com.au/

If I were Apple I would be fuming, they would be paying big bucks to use data from these companies. I highly doubt Apples App would be incorrectly interpreting the data, otherwise all addresses would be off.
'Tomtom and others' have a lot of explaining to do!!
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:46 AM   #94
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Groundhog day all over again.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:48 AM   #95
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Whilst i agree with what people are saying, that people should use abit of common sense when using these things, especially on long journeys to places they've never been, i do find it hard to defend apple with the maps service.

On my iPhone 4s, if I was somewhere I didnt know I could open up the maps app and do a search for somewhere I wanted to find, and id have confidence that it is right, on my iPhone 5 I have no confidence in the mapping because its wrong even in the places I know!

I just hope apple approve the Google Maps app!
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:57 AM   #96
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... responding to one official police warning at a time. This may take a while.
Truth. Almost 2 months ago, I reported a place (via report a problem button) that was closed and it is still there on the maps.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:00 AM   #97
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No. Because nobody I know actually uses the Find Your Friends app.
I used it for the first time about a month ago. My wife and I were in Berlin. We were separated at certain points of the journey and found it helpful when trying to meet up in a strange city.

Never used it before and not used it since.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:06 AM   #98
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Cairns

I went to cairns Australia for the Eclipse in November. I found Cairns on the Apple Maps in the middle of the Daintree Rainforest lucky I knew where I was going
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:10 AM   #99
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Anyone who relies on Apple Maps to guide them in the life-threatening Australian desert needs to be removed from the human gene pool.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:13 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by BuckusToothnail View Post
For all of Apple's talk about "innovation" and "invent your own stuff", why is it then that Apple is blatantly RIPPING OFF Google Maps, and quite badly at that?
How on earth have 8 People marked this post up?
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