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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:05 PM   #101
Liquorpuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
But many corporations are moving to iOS devices as their main device depending on the market.
What corporations are these and what Windows substitutes are they running? I work for a 9000 employee company and everything is Office (Word, Excel, Project, Visio, Access), software suites that only run on Windows, or custom apps that only run on Windows.

Quote:
It's to MS advantage to put Office on iOS because of the sheet number of devices. That gives them tons of profit and can actually shutter Google/Android by only offering it on iOS and their own devices.

MS is not playing for #1 anymore...they are playing for #2. Their enemy is Google, not Apple.
MS is a software company. It's in their best interest to maximize their profit off software by not giving Apple a 30% distribution cut. Apple is a hardware company that treats software as assets to sell hardware. It's in their best interests to flood their tablets with as much software as possible and eat a 30% distribution cut if it means more iDevices will be sold in the future. If they're playing chicken it's in Apple's best interests to cave. Right now they're either screwing with each other to screw with each other or waiting for Apple to redo the Terms and Conditions to make it work without alienating other developers.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:05 PM   #102
RMo
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
...the iOS market which consists of the iPad, iPad mini and iPhone.
Funny, I thought Apple made the iPod touch, as well.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:06 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Judas1 View Post
Seriously, who hasn't heard about office. Is apple promoting the software by just hosting it in the AppStore. No. They don't deserve ****. Microsoft made the app. They promoted the app. Apple merely hosted. Hosting is the easiest gig out there. You can tell by how many hosting sites/companies are out there. And apple wants a 30% cut? That's crazy.
Tell that to their multi billion dollar server farms
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:06 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by walnuts View Post
Yes- you are right, but unfortunately, you miss the compatibility point. I think there are many of us who work for companies that use MS Office products as a standard. If I need to make edits on a report for work, nothing less than perfect compatibility is acceptable, leaving my only option to use MS Office products for this. There just isn't a good workaround. Sure, you could copy-paste text elements here and there, but any file conversions between different software packages will at a minimum destroy some formatting. Heck this happens between different versions of Office!

Personally, I would pay top dollar for a minimized version of MS Office, even if it only allowed just text edits, if only it promised full compatibility with desktop versions.
As you said, between different versions of Office and also between platforms (Office on PC vs Office on Mac), there isn't 100% compatibility. So then the only real option is Office on PC (or accessing such a source virtually to open and edit files). It will be interesting to see how compatible Office on Windows 8 RT and iOS are with these other Office products.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:07 PM   #105
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Corporation have been doing just fine the last 2 years since the iPad was released and Office was non existent on it. Companies have produced their own solutions or go to companies that took advantage of it to create solutions. I think it just goes to show that you don't NEED Microsoft to hold your hand through the whole "business" hallway.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:11 PM   #106
sinsin07
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Originally Posted by somethingelsefl View Post
I may be in the minority here, but as a result of MS Office lacking on iOS, my personal AND business software has shifted to Pages, Numbers, and Keynote (and now I use them on my Macs). I've held up just fine.

The reality is...MS is lacking more in the tablet/mobile space than Apple is in the enterprise/personal document space. MS has more to lose here than Apple.
If you had of said my 50,000 employees personal AND business software has shifted to Pages, Numbers and Keynote your point would have more impact. As it stands "my" is singular and insignificant next to the the power of the Force, um I meant Office.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:13 PM   #107
viacavour
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Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Well microsoft, use this to your advantage.

Release Office only for mobile windows and leverage that face: MS office available only on microsoft powered phones and tablets, great for businesses and consumers alike. The best compatibility between your desktop and tablet, at a level iOS cannot achieve.
Microsoft will do exactly that anyway. Build exclusive features into their devices. The iOS version is rumored to be simple and limited.

Apple has no reason to give them concession. Bring the full MS office capability to iOS, then they will talk.

If office like apps take off, there will be third party compatible office clients. Perhaps not subscription model to undercut MS. There will also be google docs and apple stuff.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by mdelvecchio View Post
because many developers DO pay the 30%, offering appstore subscription apps.



care to cite your sources on this?
I'm not asserting that I conducted a thorough review of whether apple was making a profit off of this model or what percentage of developers take advantage of the apple subscription service versus not. But, I think we can agree that there are more than a few developers who DO skirt the 30% cut by making subscriptions available not through the app without any links to an internet subscription service. Apple's disincentive policy encourages this skirting method, and the skirting method forces the customer to jump through extra hoops.

I have no problem with Apple offering the subscription service and charging 30% for it. I do have a problem with Apple "selling" this method by not allowing alternatives. Yes they own/control the platform and the store- that gives them the right to not proactively help others compete with them, but this is just outright saying we are going to either charge you or inconvenience you/your customer so we can take an additional cut.

Apple is usually focused on design and good customer experience- this particular tactic is against that paradigm.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:17 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by drewyboy View Post
Corporation have been doing just fine the last 2 years since the iPad was released and Office was non existent on it. Companies have produced their own solutions or go to companies that took advantage of it to create solutions. I think it just goes to show that you don't NEED Microsoft to hold your hand through the whole "business" hallway.
Someone must explain to me why so many big businesses continue to be slaves to Office when they could save hundreds or thousands of dollars by going with iWork, OpenOffice or Google Docs. iWork is the most expensive of those three at $60 for Mac. Add in all the iOS apps and you're still cheaper than a copy of just Word.

I mean what exactly is the insane markup for? If whatever formatting you're using in Office doesn't translate, maybe you shouldn't have added the dancing monkey to the presentation.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:18 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by drewyboy View Post
I'd have to disagree. Can't get mac '11 & win '10 working together. Formatting is just as good as Pages -> Office '10, so there is absolutely no point to buy office '11 for mac. It's absolutely ridiculous. They continue to say "feature even, and compatibility it better"... they say that every release yet headaches still abound. I'm so sick of this office crap. I just dole out PDF and pretty much say suck it (not really). I just hate it all. I hate being gouged for office. You got ppl using openoffice, google docs, office, iWork... i once believed we could all get along and use an open format across all, but I then woke up from my dream. F it all. PDF's for everyone!
A friend of mine, a long time PC and Office user bought a Macbook Pro and bought Office 2011 with the hopes of everything being compatible, etc. He hoped to drop Windows and go Apple (He has an iPad and iPhone). Anyway, he had font issues, Outlook issues, among other problems with Office for the Mac and basically said "I can't completely drop Windows because Office isn't up to par and I need Office. Period.".

He ended up returning the MBP and got a HP laptop, lol. He didn't lose much on the copy of Office, because he bought it through his employee through an employee deal for like $10 or whatever.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:18 PM   #111
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Microsoft better get this resolved before companies have paid for the alternatives like SmartOffice, QuickOffice, etc. As these alternate solutions get tied into secured document repositories and workflows, it will be harder to redo things just for the office name. Plus, if they insist on that POS 365, they are stupid.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:18 PM   #112
sinsin07
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
What corporations are these and what Windows substitutes are they running? I work for a 9000 employee company and everything is Office (Word, Excel, Project, Visio, Access), software suites that only run on Windows, or custom apps that only run on Windows.
9000 employes is two NYC inner city high schools. Not much of a reference point.
Fortune 500 companies using ipads

Next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
Microsoft is a software company. It's in their best interest to maximize their profit off software by not giving Apple a 30% distribution cut.
It can also be said that they are a services company if they are offering a subscription based model. In fact they are with Xbox. It could also be said that it behooves them to get there subscription based model on as many devices as possible. Windows Mobil 8 ain't it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
is a hardware company that treats software as assets to sell hardware. It's in their best interests to flood their tablets with as much software as possible and eat a 30% distribution cut if it means more iDevices will be sold in the future. If they're playing chicken it's in Apple's best interests to cave. Right now they're either screwing with each other to screw with each other or waiting for Apple to redo the Terms and Conditions to make it work without alienating other developers.
Why should they cave now? They did well without MS subscription based model. It's Microsoft that has something to sell here. Apple is providing a large platform on which they can sell.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:19 PM   #113
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rumor has it…just kidding
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:19 PM   #114
viacavour
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Originally Posted by Yaboze View Post
A friend of mine, a long time PC and Office user bought a Macbook Pro and bought Office 2011 with the hopes of everything being compatible, etc. He had font issues, among other problems with Office for the Mac and basically said "I can't completely drop Windows because Office isn't up to par and I need Office. Period.".

He ended up returning the MBP and got a HP laptop, lol. He didn't lose much on the copy of Office, because he bought it through his employee through an employee deal for like $10 or whatever.
Should have used boot camp.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:19 PM   #115
commander.data
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
All the devs will just switch over to in-app subs to make more $$$ and/or eat the 10% so they can pricegouge. Apple really has no choice here - it has to be a flat % across the board.
A lot of apps wouldn't work as a subscription model or at least I don't think customers would accept it. I don't think having a smaller cut for in-app subscriptions compared to single purchases would cause everyone to switch over to a subscription model. Existing in-app subscription developers may eat the 10% drop, but the overall benefit to the user and ecosystem is still there if a drop in in-app subscription cut encourages new apps/functionality that developers wouldn't have offered without it.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:19 PM   #116
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MicroPoof....

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Originally Posted by shaunp View Post
Apple would be wise to play ball here. Microsoft is still the global standard in the corporate world for office applications, and that isn't going to change overnight. Wake up, give MS a break on the App Store costs and you'll sell a LOT of ipads as a result, and even better get MS to develop Visio and Project for Mac.
They better do as you say. They are only selling a few hundred iPads as it is.

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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:21 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
If you had of said my 50,000 employees personal AND business software has shifted to Pages, Numbers and Keynote your point would have more impact. As it stands "my" is singular and insignificant next to the the power of the Force, um I meant Office.
I also have MY own advertising and publication business that we now require all of or employees to use Pages, Numbers, Keynote. Our employee roster isn't 50K, but for a small business like us to shift from Office to Apple it's a big deal. At many of our conferences, we aren't the only small business to have done so.

We probably aren't bound by legacy policies and/or the obnoxious color-coded arrogances as your post seems to suggest your company encounters.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:24 PM   #118
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How in the world...

I love Apple products, never owned anything but, yet I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to continue working on my Excel files on my iPad on the road.

How in the world do two competing juggernauts gauge the value of customers like me?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:24 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
What corporations are these and what Windows substitutes are they running? I work for a 9000 employee company and everything is Office (Word, Excel, Project, Visio, Access), software suites that only run on Windows, or custom apps that only run on Windows.



MS is a software company. It's in their best interest to maximize their profit off software by not giving Apple a 30% distribution cut. Apple is a hardware company that treats software as assets to sell hardware. It's in their best interests to flood their tablets with as much software as possible and eat a 30% distribution cut if it means more iDevices will be sold in the future. If they're playing chicken it's in Apple's best interests to cave. Right now they're either screwing with each other to screw with each other or waiting for Apple to redo the Terms and Conditions to make it work without alienating other developers.
SAS is one of them.

Also you do realize that many companies have apps or solutions for products that were MS only...CITRIX is one of them...they have mobile apps for all their back end software management programs. We use it for our scheduling/billing.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:26 PM   #120
sinsin07
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Originally Posted by somethingelsefl View Post
I also have MY own advertising and publication business that we now require all of or employees to use Pages, Numbers, Keynote. Our employee roster isn't 50K, but for a small business like us to shift from Office to Apple it's a big deal. At many of our conferences, we aren't the only small business to have done so.

We probably aren't bound by legacy policies and/or the obnoxious color-coded arrogances as your post seems to suggest your company encounters.
Small companies stay small for a reason, usually from owners who don't think outside the box.

You're big deal is only a reference point for you and yours, not even a blip on the big picture and therefore not really worth mentioning in the context of millions and millions of Office and Ipad users.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:27 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Right.
Out of curiosity, which part of that are you rolling your eyes at?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:28 PM   #122
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An addendum to a previous quotation

"The reality is, is that we love competition, at Apple. We think it makes us all better. But we want people to invent their own stuff. And we want 30% of it."





Just being funny; I don't really care. Seems like Apple's prerogative.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:29 PM   #123
bretm
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If Angry Birds doesn't get a discount, why on earth would Microsoft? Plus, Apple would prefer you buy pages anyway.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:30 PM   #124
viacavour
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Microsoft are having a laugh. Rules are rules; either abide by them or go elsewhere. Would love to read that Apple email though:

'Dear Microsoft,

given your gross lack of comprehension, we have compiled a concise list of important Apple Store rules:

1. We take 30% of everything.
2. Read Number 1.

Yours apathetically,
'
In the early days, Bill Gates threatened to kill MS apps on Mac to force Steve Jobs to back off. They will do it again this time, or any number of time when they gain popularity. They won't care about iOS users' feelings.

Apple should take the negotiation long term, and work out a sustainable relationship. Don't let them use us consumers as stepping stones. Don't let them sell us fluff. Get the full Office or Visio or whatever apps users need. Form a strategic relationship if they want to break the rules.

A subscription model may not work well anyway. Counter propose.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:31 PM   #125
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"It's not yet clear what sort of concession Microsoft is seeking, but whatever it is, Apple's evidently not willing to consider it.”

So we know nothing of the actual dispute... but let me guess: we can still be certain who is right!
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