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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:23 PM   #126
JHankwitz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iphoneclassic View Post
We all know Apple doesn't like to share anything with others, tries to dictate terms.
I guess this is the negative perspective of how Apple strives to provide simple, streamlined, and standardized processes for using Apple devices. The only way you can provide what the masses want is to provide standardization, and the only way you can do that is to own and demand the standards. Like it or not, Apple continues to show that this system works the best. If people really preferred openness, they would all be using the extensive line of Linux software and products that would have evolved as a result of great customer demand.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:32 PM   #127
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Am I the only one that wasn't a high quality dumb TV? I don't want Netflix, Pandora, iTunes, etc built into my TV? That's what Xbox 360, PS3, and Blu-Ray players are for.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:45 PM   #128
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It doesn't make sense for Apple to inovate a dying technology. 4k resolution delivered from the cloud wirelessly to an Apple TV is the future. At this point, that technology does not exist, thus if Apple creates it, then that is inovation.

The light at the end of the blu ray tunnel is pretty bright.
Viewing a movie in HD via an Apple TV and viewing it from a blu ray disc is like night and day. 4K will not be much better because of the extreme compression needed and used to fit into provided bandwidth. I continue to purchase blu ray movies instead of renting them on-line via Apple TV HD because there is such a significant difference.

People thinking that downloaded HD and blu ray are equal in quality proves my point. Most people are unable to see the difference, either because their viewing equipment is unable to display the difference, or their eyes can't see the difference. If they can't see this difference now, there's no way they will ever truly see a difference using compressed 4K.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:46 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
I guess this is the negative perspective of how Apple strives to provide simple, streamlined, and standardized processes for using Apple devices. The only way you can provide what the masses want is to provide standardization, and the only way you can do that is to own and demand the standards. Like it or not, Apple continues to show that this system works the best. If people really preferred openness, they would all be using the extensive line of Linux software and products that would have evolved as a result of great customer demand.
This argument is a very hard sell....

Linux's problem isn't that it lacks standardization, it's that it's never gained the critical mass to have commercial software and drivers for it. When google put it's considerable clout behind a customizable open source os (android) an thus actual commercial applications started developing for it the masses embraced it.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 01:59 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Gravity View Post
Apple can innovate with Television... or you know it wouldn't even consider trying. Obviously it would be voice controlled, ala Siri... would be tied to Apple's ecosystem... and they'd give it a design that TV's have never seen. I'm thinking edge-to-edge picture (no bezel)... and if they're really cool... the entire screen would be WHITE when the unit is off, not black.
I was a Costco a few weeks ago and saw a edge to edge tv with a bezel so small it was hard to tell it was really there. It was from LG, the Samsung TV near it had probably a bezel that also pretty dang thin. I can't really see how Apple could make the bezel thinner.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:03 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by AnalyzeThis View Post
I could not wait for this fiasco, got popcorn stash ready. This will show what Apple really is without Jobs. Sure, these squabblers under a lot of pressure. It will hit the fan though and not just TVs. Mini/Maxi model is sign of upcoming defeat. Oops, short on ideas, heh, just like the rest of us. Full ahead Apple!!!
Apple making a version of a TV is hardly a new idea. Steve Jobs has talked about it several times. It's clearly an idea that he was passionate about and I'm sure, has been in the works for a long time already.

Please, people, stop this paranoia of what Jobs would do or wouldn't. He's dead. He hasn't been the only one with good ideas at Apple.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:07 PM   #132
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As I have been saying for years now, when Apple makes a display it will be 4K. The first confirmation we had for this was the "Retina Display" on the iPhone. Since then we have seen increasingly large high resolution displays from Apple. At some point the streams will cross and Apple will have purchased enough factory capacity and developed the large size panel production to the point they can actually fill 15m orders for 36" and 52" 4K format TV's. Of course like an iMac or an iPad it will have a little computer inside. I feel sorry for all the Fedex drivers.

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Based on the few 4k tv sets that are out yet, aren't they going around 12-15k right now? That would make it priced out of range for most people. Not really worth it.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:08 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Drunken Master View Post
Do you jailbreak your cable box?

For ****'s sake people, nobody is this dumb.
A) A cable box is locked down.

B) Standard TVs have a tuner.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:17 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by dmunz View Post
This has never made sense to me. Television sets are now so commoditized that there seems to be no point to Apple entering the market. Everything Apple would do well fits in a small black box. Why mess with the rest of the set and all the logistics that go with that kind of supply chain.

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With the same logic, the market was so commoditized with feature phones and so-called smart phones... Apple didn't need to enter that market... we were doing just fine with making calls and using Palm / Windows CE devices. I am sure the execs at Apple know what they're getting into... including logistics and profit margins.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:22 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by RetepNamenots View Post
An Apple TV would be updated every year like all their other products, making it just as obsolete just as quickly (if not faster)
are you aware that ALL of the tv manufacturers (or audio receiver manufacturers, or...) update their models almost every year? do you rush out and buy the newest year's model? why not? so what makes you think you would do so if it were from apple?

i dont update my apple laptop every year either. nor my car. you hit a price point where you keep it for years, despite improved annual releases.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:38 PM   #136
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"design" doesn't mean anything in particular. samsung provides many of the components so apple works with them in designing the iphone based on the current component supplies and some custom designs too (a5).
There is no evidence that what you say here is true. Apple designs its products around the components. Design choices are made based on what they can get. I've not read a single piece about Apple "working with" any supplier on design. The closest thing to what you're saying, I'd imagine, is Apple asking "can you do x instead of y" or "we'd prefer is this part was within these specs" but there's zero collaboration on how Apple ultimately integrates those parts into the final design. None.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:55 PM   #137
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If Apple was concerned about the Apple brand becoming less elitist, a sleek expensive TV would work in their favor.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:17 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by coldmack View Post
Based on the few 4k tv sets that are out yet, aren't they going around 12-15k right now? That would make it priced out of range for most people. Not really worth it.
Actually that is a GREAT point. If Apple were to offer a $1500 and $2500 4K TV in Wal-Mart (and everywhere else) it would have an unquestioned competitive advantage on FEATURES and PRICE. Slam dunk.

It's gonna be in EVERY bar. Drunk bartenders will be able to operate it.

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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:35 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Actually that is a GREAT point. If Apple were to offer a $1500 and $2500 4K TV in Wal-Mart (and everywhere else) it would have an unquestioned competitive advantage on FEATURES and PRICE. Slam dunk.

Rocketman
Yeah I don't see 4k tv going for that low, not at least for a few years. Not to mention we don't have any real 4k content play, or internet fast enough(at least most people don't) to stream 4k content consistently.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:51 PM   #140
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I saw Lincoln this week in 4K in a theater on a standard sized screen and was I am guessing 30-40 feet away. It was not pixelated. When I saw Toy Story 1 at the El Capitan in digital projection (double width theatrical screen) it was clearly pixelated.

When I watch the 1080p TV in front of me now from about 7 feet away or so it has barely perceptible pixelation and is vastly clearer than the 480i analog TV it replaced. Although pixelation as a term probably does not apply to old fashioned TV. When I watch a non HD source on the HDTV it is "fuzzy", and someone really should train TV's to know what source (channel) it is getting and not stretch the image to fit.

Rocketman
Their (the HD gurus) point was 4k makes sense in the theater - not the "standard" home. Very few people are going to sit 7 feet away from a 65" 4k set. Much further from that and you don't see the 4k resolution. At 7' with a 65" screen you have an odd room arrangement that won't fly for many people.

Last edited by Apple Corps; Dec 12, 2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:04 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by coldmack View Post
Yeah I don't see 4k tv going for that low, not at least for a few years. Not to mention we don't have any real 4k content play, or internet fast enough(at least most people don't) to stream 4k content consistently.
Apple.

Optical media.

Blu-Ray.

Streaming.

Download.

Store-forward (my model, based on my email experience for a couple of decades now).



4K content, why do you think these discussions are taking so long? Many projects have been recorded in 4K/5K (Red) for about 3 years now. It's there, but they didn't expect to release the capture resolution so soon.

Apple will skate to the puck.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Corps View Post
Their (the HD gurus) point was 4k makes sense in the theater - not the "standard" home. Very few people are going to sit 7 feet away from a 65" 4k set. Much further from that and you don't see the 4k resolution. At 7' with a 65" screen you have an odd room arrangement that won't fly for many people.
32 and 52 inches and hanging on a wall like the picture it replaces. The new lifestyle trend.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:04 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
I guess this is the negative perspective of how Apple strives to provide simple, streamlined, and standardized processes for using Apple devices. The only way you can provide what the masses want is to provide standardization, and the only way you can do that is to own and demand the standards. Like it or not, Apple continues to show that this system works the best. If people really preferred openness, they would all be using the extensive line of Linux software and products that would have evolved as a result of great customer demand.
There is nothing wrong in providing proprietary standardized UI. Amazon VOD has exclusive rights from some studios. Netflix has exclusive rights to Disney content 2014 onwards. Apple has their own agreements.

In this complex digital media licensing world Apple cannot dictate terms to be a single source. It cannot ask Disney to dump Netflix and sign direct agreement with Apple.

I have Samsung Internet@TV, Apple TV(Gen 3) and Roku box. Apple TV has the best Netflix UI but no Amazon VOD. Amazon spent close to 1 Billion to get rights from several studios. Amazon Prime members have access to lot of that content for free. Roku cannot get license for Youtube.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:38 PM   #143
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I've followed the televsion industry fairly closely for the last few years. Manufacturers have made significant leaps forward in picture quality while managing to steadily decrease the price tag. The built-in OSes have also steadily improved. I bought a new TV this year and, if it wasn't for AirPlay, I could get rid of my AppleTV and not feel a difference.

I think we'll see more features emerge that allow consumers to leverage their existing video content in easier and easier ways and eventually move content to and stream content from the "cloud." Whether Apple will be a part of that trend when it comes to video remains to be seen.

I'd like to think we'll eventually start see more content in 1080p (and beyond), but that's in the hands of the content producers and providers. The whole 4K-8K thing sounds awesome, but let's not get ahead of ourselves --1080p displays have been available at the consumer level for over 6 years and yet 1080p content is still virtually non-existent in US television broadcasting.

A "retina" TV might be cool but -- if the price tag of the few 4K TVs being pushed to market overseas are any indication -- the costs and margins aren't right for the general market yet. And while one might make the argument that the increased premium for rMBPs has not dissuaded Apple lovers from lining up to purchase one, there is a precedent for high-end, high-cost TVs not selling enough to justify producing/selling them:

In 2008, Pioneer released the Kuro Elite 9G TVs. They are to-date the best TVs ever manufactured in terms of picture quality and (for the most part) picture/signal processing. People who need a true, reference-quality display still use them and swear by them. But the price was way too much for most people to justify purchasing one, TV enthusiasts/videophiles included. About a year later, Pioneer permanently closed their TV manufacturing lines.

Last edited by punchwalk; Dec 12, 2012 at 08:25 PM.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:58 PM   #144
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TV is so outdated anyway. The whole thing just feels like the race off between HD DVD and blue-ray.. racing to be the best at something practically obsolete

----------



Because there are more than 20 people working at the company
Indeed - I never watch TV on my TV anymore (NZ TV at the moment is pretty rubbishy anyway).
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:10 PM   #145
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Still just playing "hobby" until we release it, then it's "magical."
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:37 PM   #146
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Ya, but i already knew that. the "hobby" was always just "A Hobby"..... what will happen when this television gets off the ground, (if it get off the ground)

Will this be "just a more expensive hobby' ?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:45 PM   #147
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I hope they make a TV that keeps the same sound level. I hate it when an ad comes on the volume goes up. You change channels the volume changes you play a DVD the volume changes. Its not that hard lets get it done. I suppose Hollywood won't allow it.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:15 PM   #148
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Again APPLE PLEASE just start with a simple function-while watching tv any ad should be able to be "bookmarked" or sent to the home computer for viewing the website-advertisers will pay you MILLIONS for this function-this is what they want-to get us to look closer right? Well why is this difficult? Money in the bank-if you use it please send me a million for the idea-thanks.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:19 PM   #149
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prototype

Being a prototype , What if this doesn't take off ?

I'm sure there are lots of stuff that never get made, just because it "sounds like a good idea" at the time. How much would Apple loose ?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 09:47 PM   #150
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My guess right now is they're using more "conventional" flat panel displays to built prototype units to work out the interface for the Apple-branded television set.

But when the set is finally revealed, it will be 46 to 60 inch units that use Sharp's IGZO display technology for amazingly good picture quality, but will at first be limited to 1920x1080 resolution for cost reasons. Eventually, Apple will produce 3840x2160 TV sets once source material that display this resolution is available.
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