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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:54 PM   #51
HMI
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Originally Posted by aleksivic View Post
Im a regular traveller and not once have I ever switched any of my devices to airplane mode when asked to.

Finally somebody has the balls to act!
Well, I'm a bit skeptical!

I'm guessing she's more concerned about publicly appearing tough on the FAA than actually doing anything to them. It's just what senators and most elected politicians seem to do!
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:54 PM   #52
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Reminds me of Bart Simpson...

... When Bart turns off his Game Boy, then the plane takes a nose dive
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:54 PM   #53
oneMadRssn
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Originally Posted by Jalopybox View Post
I like to take this on board and mess with all the cell phones people are trying to use.

http://www.securityprousa.com/eljasy1.html
I will be laughing when TSA decides to reach up your butt and see what's up there when they catch you bringing anything that looks like that into an airport.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:55 PM   #54
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http://infactvideo.com/episode/02/10/
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:56 PM   #55
tooloud10
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Originally Posted by onigami View Post
No, I will. You couldn't just plan your time accordingly? You knew well that this was going to happen, so you should take measures to take that into consideration (start your work earlier at the airport, or plan on fixing up stuff after touching down) rather than begging for extra time. The additional time is for procrastinators. There's nothing that proper planning and organization of time could not fix.
Why do you insist on using your device to make all these nonsensical posts? Is it really that important that you do it now? Shouldn't strangers be allowed to make up ridiculous reasons why you can't use your devices at certain times and force you to abide by their unreasonable rules?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:58 PM   #56
onigami
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Originally Posted by Ubele View Post
But if there is indeed absolutely no risk from having these devices on during take-off and landing, then why are you against the idea of people using them? Sure, people can live without having their devices on for 30 minutes, but I don't see the point of rules that have no purpose. It would be equally absurd if the FAA prohibited you from reading a magazine during take-off and landing. Having to fasten your seatbelt, on the other hand, makes sense. Granted, this isn't an issue of monumental importance, but there have been times when I was reading something engrossing on my iPad and would have liked to continue for a few more minutes. I don't fly often, but if I did, I can see how this issue might be more important to me.
There's a legitimate argument in that. I just find that people who find such petty things a big issue in their mind troublesome to begin with. They always complain about such stupid things, and it boggles my mind that, of all the things that people should rightfully complain about, they expend their energy on some basic, trivial matter that is at best a nuisance to people. And to take this to a political level, when we got plenty of other problems, just seems a complete waste of time and resources.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:59 PM   #57
BTGeekboy
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
As a private pilot myself, I encourage the use of electronic devices because according the the FAR (91.21) the pilot in command is allowed to veto any restrictions on electronic devices if I determine it is not a hazard (which it is not).

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
[...]
In your aircraft under Part 91, you're free to do as you wish. In commercial aviation, you're subject to Part 121. In particular, 121.306.
§ 121.306 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.
Under Part 121, your friendly captain / FO (PIC/SIC) does not have that authority. And, frankly, as a passenger, neither do you.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:04 PM   #58
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gonna tell my sis the next time we fly together that the pilot is probably using apple maps, this is gonna be fun. shes scared as it is
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:04 PM   #59
gmanist1000
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Airplane mode should be enough. But we should be able to continue using them during takeoff/landing.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:04 PM   #60
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There are all sorts of really dumb "safety" precautions when it comes to flying. The idea that wearing headphones will not allow you to hear emergency instructions should something bad happen on take-off or landing is one of those DUMB rules. Are you really kidding me that should something really bad happen that necessitates instructions being given over the intercom or screamed as the plane is...fill in the blank - depressurized, on fire, heading for a crash landing. What exactly is the person listening to music supposed to do? And if they're listening to music or watching a movie at the point where the plane is crashing, then I'd say let them live their last minutes doing what they please.

It's not much different than giving water landing instructions when the plane's route takes you over the desert.

I agree that having passengers on their phones is not something to be tolerated, given cramped quarters more than anything, but most of the other issues given for non PED use is silly at best.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:05 PM   #61
Jalopybox
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Originally Posted by deecasey View Post
Surely the non-use during the beginning and end of flight is so that they have your full attention???
Of course it is.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:06 PM   #62
bradl
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Interesting to note here is that everyone is assuming that 'electronic devices' must only mean cell phones, any electronic named after or sponsored by a fruit, or some sort of tablet. And to those thinking that it interferes with the aircraft's electronics, you really do not know what you're talking about.

I agree with the pilots that have popped up in this forum, as they know and have a lot more experience in the field than others here. I like to put myself in that boat, though I haven't completed the checkride to get my ticket. But I can say that they do not interfere whatsoever, otherwise this regulation would have affected not only Part 121 operations (commercial aircraft), but also Part 135 and Part 91 operations, which this does NOT cover. So that already puts the FAA's regs under scrutiny.

The good thing to note for those who are student pilots or wanting to hear how Part 121 ops run while in the air, this also affects radio scanners as well. They do not transmit on any sort of frequency, so there would be no interference with any avionics in the flight deck. In fact, if worse came to worse, it would be an Phone or a tablet with 3G/4G/LTE that would cause more of an issue than a scanner would. So this would be a bonus for those who are into ATC comms (read: LiveATC feeds).

I love how the fear and paranoia of 9/11 still plays part into this..

Glad to know that Sen. McCaskill has the testicular fortitude (that the men in the Senate apparently don't) to take this issue on.

BL.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:07 PM   #63
jasonq13
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Originally Posted by WardC View Post
Haven't you ever heard the interference that a cellular phone can cause with electronic speakers? For this reason, the FAA wants ALL Cellular and Radio-transmission equipped devices turned off, when RADIO COMMUNICATION from the tower to the cockpit is vital, and necessary to ensure the safety of the flight.

If an Airplane radio transmission receives too much interference, and is inaudibe to the pilots, the pilots might miss a runway or hit another plane. You DON'T WANT THAT HAPPENING!!!
That's kind of what happened in the Tenerife air disaster. Radio interference due to two planes transmitting at the same time lead one pilot to misunderstand his instructions and attempt to take off when another airplane was crossing the runway.

Pilots are now required to repeat back their instructions as a means of acknowledging they understood them correctly as a result of the accident but radio interference can still be a problem.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:08 PM   #64
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about time....
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:08 PM   #65
lostngone
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Really?!?!

REALLY?!?! We are fighting about this?

Our Constitutional rights are being violated every time we pass through a TSA checkpoint and we are arguing over turning off an electronic device for 10 minutes during takeoff and landing?

As a country we have our priorities really screwed up.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:09 PM   #66
bernuli
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Yeah, 2 devices may not make a big difference, but 500 devices all running at high power, trying to get a cell signal, is not a good idea.

New airplanes are fly by wire. I prefer not to mess with that.

It is a MINOR inconvenience to be on the safe side at a critical stage of flight. If you can't have your device off for 15 minutes, without throwing a fit, you have a real problem.

Leave the FAA alone Senator. Go find some good press somewhere else.


B
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:11 PM   #67
bradl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonq13 View Post
That's kind of what happened in the Tenerife air disaster. Radio interference due to two planes transmitting at the same time lead one pilot to misunderstand his instructions and attempt to take off when another airplane was crossing the runway.

Pilots are now required to repeat back their instructions as a means of acknowledging they understood them correctly as a result of the accident but radio interference can still be a problem.
Tenerife was the fault of a heterodyne, caused by two pilots transmitting on the same frequency, not any communications being received on a frequency. Also it should be noted that WiFi comms are on a completely different part of the spectrum than aviation frequencies. In fact, Civil Aviation's highest freq doesn't even come close to the lowest WiFi or cellular phone frequency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernuli
Yeah, 2 devices may not make a big difference, but 500 devices all running at high power, trying to get a cell signal, is not a good idea.

New airplanes are fly by wire. I prefer not to mess with that.

It is a MINOR inconvenience to be on the safe side at a critical stage of flight. If you can't have your device off for 15 minutes, without throwing a fit, you have a real problem.

Leave the FAA alone Senator. Go find some good press somewhere else.
B
Which you don't know what you are talking about here, as again, FBW and the avionics have nothign to do with the WiFi going on inside a flight nor the radio reception between pilots and ATC. Completely different frequencies.

Talk about FUD.

BL.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:11 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by onigami View Post
No, I will. You couldn't just plan your time accordingly? You knew well that this was going to happen, so you should take measures to take that into consideration (start your work earlier at the airport, or plan on fixing up stuff after touching down) rather than begging for extra time. The additional time is for procrastinators. There's nothing that proper planning and organization of time could not fix.
So, when I get on a plane to go fix a computer system in another city (as my job sometimes requires) and 20 minutes before boarding I get a call that reveals more information about the problem, and as a result I think to myself "gee.. i wonder if I can work on diagramming what the network should be doing while I'm on this plane so that when I arrive, I can show it to the network guy on site and work with him more efficiently" it's my fault for not knowing that detail until just prior to flight?

not everything in this world can be planned for and predicted.

If someone wants to take advantage of 30 minutes of sitting on their bum to be more productive, AND DOING SO TRULY PUTS NOBODY AT ANY GREATER RISK, then why can't we? (again, provided that the FAA or other appropriate entity shows that there is no additional risk to others' safety).

I mean, what's the point of "airplane mode" on electronics devices that pass the FCC inspections designed to ensure these products do not cause interference with other products?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:11 PM   #69
burnside
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Originally Posted by onigami View Post
No, I will. You couldn't just plan your time accordingly? You knew well that this was going to happen, so you should take measures to take that into consideration (start your work earlier at the airport, or plan on fixing up stuff after touching down) rather than begging for extra time. The additional time is for procrastinators. There's nothing that proper planning and organization of time could not fix.
What is wrong with you? I'm not judging you, but you make it a point to judge others. Where did I say I need that time for my work? I said that extra time would be appreciated. I would rather have 30 extra minutes with my kids than working at home. I plan my time just fine and getting 30 extra minutes of work on a plane would make life better.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:11 PM   #70
Trius
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Originally Posted by aleksivic View Post
Im a regular traveller and not once have I ever switched any of my devices to airplane mode when asked to.

Finally somebody has the balls to act!
This is evidence that there is no threat in leaving devices on. I'm sure this is not the only person that blows off this rule. If it were a real issue, they would be confiscating personal devices at the gate.

Although, what does this senator know about wireless interference??
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:12 PM   #71
Michael CM1
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If my iPad can bring down a commercial airliner by just being on, I want a different flight.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:14 PM   #72
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Well, define "turn off" - most devices are doing a hundred things in the background while the display is turned off.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:14 PM   #73
bradl
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Originally Posted by Michael CM1 View Post
If my iPad can bring down a commercial airliner by just being on, I want a different flight.
In all honesty, you have a better chance of seeing soap being used in the men's restroom than your iPad bringing down a flight.

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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:15 PM   #74
MozMan68
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Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
They do.
I must have been dreaming then when I did it myself...or when there was a thread on this very site about it when FaceTime was first introduced.

Believe me...it's the next thing that stupid people will fight over.

"I'm a blah blah blah important attorney and have to work on the plane."

I personally don't see an issue with not using my device or have headphones on during the safety instructions (that I have heard 1,000+ times), but letting people start to talk on their phones or FaceTime over the wifi system will cause an uproar....and I travel for business all the time.

Plane time is sleepy time for me...
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:15 PM   #75
macandkanga
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I just took a class flying a 737 with a pilot who's been flying for 30 plus years. He says devices have no effect whatever. It is only a precaution in case something does happen. Why risk it? He also says it gets people off their phones during takeoff and landing which is annoying to others and it's the most dangerous time during a flight. Once at altitude, you can't get a signal. So for the most part it's about keeping people off their phones and not taking any unnecessary risks.

Also, if they were a real danger they would be in the same category as a gun and not even allowed past the TSAs.
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